Black Swan

[invisible]

i saw black swan. i loved it! i saw it again. i loved it!

well i thought natalie portman was amazing in this role. when i've seen her in the past i have always thought that her performance was uneven. but in this film, wow, i thought she was amazing! i thought that her performance was very transformative, and that she displayed many very convincing transformations, both of herself, and throughout the narrative of the character's transformation. usually in a major performance, an actor seems to me to be expected to display one major transformation. i don't think i can count the transformations that portman displayed in this film. i believe this was a virtuoso performance.

this film interested me most on an artistic level. i was interested in the artistic ideas it raised. what does it take to create an artistic product? because, nina was aware at times that she was putting herself through something unhealthy, and yet she continued to go deeper into this unhealthy way of being, because the artistic outcome was so important to her. so the question arises, did she put herself through this in order to get a particular artistic outcome? is it worth it, to make an artistic product, to put the self through that? does one single stage performance count as a complete artistic product, as an enduring stand alone artistic achievement, or is it only confined to that moment, since it can't be seen in the same way again? what does that mean for the film actor, giving a perfect performance on a single film - is this a valid cohesive artistic product made by the actor? if so, why not for the dancer?

i didn't have many more thoughts on it beyond this. i did attempt to analyse it through a gothic genre mode. isolated location (the isolated self?), sexual intrigue, domestic problems, psychological disturbance, generational conflict, violence and violent threats to the sanctity of bodies, labyrinths? etc.

i made a poll. did you love it? like it? dislike it? hate it? please tell me what you thought of it.

 

[Gaze]

Still need to see it, so i'll let you know when i do.

 

[Diana]

I loved Black Swan. I'm already an Arranofsky fan but I think this was his best film yet. As soon as it was over I wanted to go see it again. I'm still planning on it if I can catch it while it's still in the theater. I am already including it as one of my favorite movies ever.

 

[Goblue72]

It just had so much screen time for Natalie Portman, combined with Aranofsky's style of using those closeups on her face and the music throughout, I thought it was great. And being a thriller, it kept you very into the movie. This surprised me a bit, since I could really care less about ballet. I'm not going to say it's the best movie ever, but he did a great job of keeping me involved and on the edge of my seat. Portman is a great actress and I hope she wins the Oscar for this role.

 

[Gaze]

I saw it tonight. The most involved or intriguing aspect of the film was her relationship with her mother. They could've fleshed it out towards the end a little more. I really thought there was more to their relationship than was apparent. I don't dislike the film but I thought they could've gone further with the story, especially in terms of the degree to which her body was disintegrating under the pressure. I also think Beth (Wynona Rider's) character was underserved by the plot and could've been more better integrated into the storyline. Her transformation in the end as the Black Swan was awesome though. It would've been cool to include more fantasy or gothic elements in the film.

 

[Billy]

Favorite moment was when she stabs herself and realizes that

A. she is the black swan and she is at the pinnacle of her success
B. is fuckin nuts!

 

[Detective Conan]

I never even heard of the film until it started popping up on top 10 lists for best films of the year. I still need to watch it myself before I can judge, but it looks like a pretty decent movie. On that note, it'll still be a rental for me.

 

[invisible]

I saw it tonight. The most involved or intriguing aspect of the film was her relationship with her mother. They could've fleshed it out towards the end a little more. I really thought there was more to their relationship than was apparent. I don't dislike the film but I thought they could've gone further with the story, especially in terms of the degree to which her body was disintegrating under the pressure. I also think Beth (Wynona Rider's) character was underserved by the plot and could've been more better integrated into the storyline. Her transformation in the end as the Black Swan was awesome though. It would've been cool to include more fantasy or gothic elements in the film.

Spoiler

i kind of liked the subtlety and openendedness of the psychological touches actually. i was intrigued by her relationship with her mother also. but i think the style of the thing in general was pretty outrageously camp - ballet, outrageously massive emotional responses, etc. i also liked all of the little intrusions and attacks on her body, they seemed constant - even the way that she is constantly putting in and taking out different sets of earrings, like all the time, even as she is walking into the hospital to visit beth. i thought the main point of beth as a character in interaction with nina was to suggest what nina was capable of doing in pursuing artistic perfection, how obsessive she was, with this sort of magical fetishistic attraction to it, and that she would stop at nothing. the strongest (and maybe only genuine in the realistic sense) supernatural element for me was through the appearance of von rothbart in the opening dream sequence as he appeared in exact costuming in the actual production, which was costuming that had not been designed at the time setting of the opening of the film, and aronofsky seemed to really bring it to audience attention when during the opening night performance she is backstage and the dancer in the role of rothbart walks past and says "hey" to nina, but she is not shaken by his appearance as she is by her hallucinations. if we were to regard the costumed dream appearance of rothbart as a "mistake" it would constitute a massive continuity error and i think that the film is too aware and awake to itself and its genre for that. i felt very drawn to all of these suggestive little details and their possible meanings all in concert with each other, i thought that the style was so completely high camp that it would have been very easy to completely overdo it. i'm glad i'm not the only person who found the transformation to black swan awesome, i thought it was played with total genius by portman and also i loved the music and the way it is engineered to sound muted but still so overwhelming as she is in the wings and her arms are turning into wings. actually i found everything about the whole performance sequence mindblowing but i wanted that particular scene to last forever. it gives me goosebumps!

 

[invisible]

is the artist always courting darkness?

 

[CorLeonis]

Oh my gosh, I love these questions.

And, I absolutely adored, and was disturbed by the movie (which was a good thing).


What does it take to create an artistic product?
This... is an absolutely impossible question. As an artist (actor, to be specific) then I have to be an actor and say I am of the belief that art can only be created if the person is taking care of themselves, on the most basic levels (like... yaknow, not dying...) If you are becoming so enveloped by the madness of a creation, it's becoming your reality, instead of a work of art. Then again, there is always a very, amazingly thin line, and it's impossible to create a work of art without any pain or anguish, not to mention, if something is so removed from yourself that it has none of you in it, that's not art, either. The true art, as I can see it, is to pour yourself into something, but be able to just as easily step right out of it. As I said, I think it's an impossible question to answer. But oh, boy, do I love thinkin' about it.

Did she put herself through this in order to get a particular artistic outcome?
I do not think that her transformation into the "Black Swan" was an intentional descent. I think that the pressure of trying to shove all of these mixed emotions and messages into one (already fragile) person was too much, and the product she created, though beautiful, was not what she set out to create. I say this because all of her "transformation" into her own "black swan" happened outside of the rehearsal room. She was not working toward a frenzied state in rehearsal, and then stepping out of it, going home and relaxing. (My interpretation, of course... and my answer would change if I thought that she had intentionally driven herself to the point of death). She wanted, I believe, to create a Black Swan of power and beauty, and unflappable confidence. In a way, yes, she did. But I think the big difference for me was intentional vs. unintentional. Not that unintentional things can't be art.... bah. I know. I could keep contradicting myself for hours.

Is it worth it, to make an artistic product, to put the self through that?
Wow. I don't even know how to answer that question, because (despite my answer above... heh!) half of me is screaming, "Yes! Yes!" but then... my sanity returns and I have to say no. Partially because I've seen someone cut themselves on stage for the sake of "art"... and it didn't do anything of artistic value. It just made people forget about everything they'd done before that, and worry about the person, instead of the art. It detracted from the art, completely. For example, if the movie had continued on... I believe that the focus would have been on Nina's death. Not on her beautiful performance.

Does one single stage performance count as a complete artistic product, as an enduring stand alone artistic achievement, or is it only confined to that moment, since it can't be seen in the same way again?
Damn, so many kudos for these great questions... but this one I'm rather decisive on. A performance is an artistic product. It just does not have a "copy" that so many of us need now-a-days, in order for something to have value."Movie versus live theatre". Is theatre not as effective, because it has it's moment, and then it's gone? Or is a movie not effective because it's a stagnant, never-changing, flat picture? I think they're both art. Just... different.


What does that mean for the film actor, giving a perfect performance on a single film - is this a valid cohesive artistic product made by the actor? if so, why not for the dancer?
I think it's an artistic product. It's just a different TYPE of artistic product than a stage performance. And I think it is just as much for the dancer, who performs once and then it's over? Is that what you're asking?



Absolutely adored the movie. Can't stop thinking about it. Whew.







Though, did anyone else have problems with adults acting like two year olds in the movie theatre? Giggling at swear words, and saying, "oh my gawwwwd," in offense at the sex? Ugh. It made me sad that they were there. I wanted to be enveloped in the movie.