Do we change?

DrShephard

DrShephard

Community Member
MBTI
INTJ
Enneagram
1w9
I was at a bar somewhat far away over the weekend. At one point, I ended up speaking existential philosophy with a friend out behind the venue - about who we are, what we do, how we are. The bouncer there, although not a very convincing bouncer (not too bulky, although it wasn't a roudy bar so I don't think bulk was necessary), overheard us and got pulled into the conversation. He was, incidentally, also a history teacher in high school.

I asked him what patterns he saw in human behavior - who we generally were and how we generally acted. He seemed like a genuinely observant and intelligent person. Who better to get an answer from than someone working both with people who live in adolescence and with people who frequent social venues?

He said that, from his experience, people don't change much after high school - from their youth. He'd seen girls who use their looks to get away with talking in class, but when they're told to go stand outside for disrupting they confidently walk out, then break down and start sobbing because it didn't work... and similarly, that type of behavior leads to the girls who try to use their looks to get past lines in clubs, and get frazzled when that doesn't work. Jock types tend to stay jock types. Oddballs tend to stay oddballs within their relative realm of oddballness.

I've seen my friends stay quite similar. They've matured, but they've stayed in the same patterns. As for myself, I have to suppose that I've stayed in similar patterns as well. It's hard to break out of what you know.

So to what extent do we change? Do we find our relative puzzle piece and try to fit it more and more, even if it doesn't completely match our essence underneath it all?

How do you view yourself and your relative changes since your own youth, and how do you see your closest friends currently with respect to how they were when they were younger?
 
I think we refine who we are somewhat as we mature and gain perspective on things, but we keep the same tendencies. How those are effected by our life experiences (or lack thereof) is what seperates who we were at a given point from who we are.
I can't say much about how exactly past that, come back to me in a decade or so :P
 
Of course you were at the bar, you're clearly an alcoholic.
 
On a side note... If there's something concerning alcoholism I'm addicted to, it's this:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTzNCK83tTg"]YouTube - Röyksopp - The Alcoholic[/ame]
 
I like to think that I didn't change at the core of myself from early on, but that I just developed layers. The onion theory if you will. I've thought about this for years, how could I think that I both didn't change as a person, yet grew tremendously too? I know I have different viewpoints and and am more assertive than in my 20's. Yet my core values and how I saw the world were essentially the same. I finally decided upon the onion theory where my core being was pretty much (not 100%) the same, and my personality had added layers of ideas, beliefs, and emotions to augment what was the true "me". I hope that makes sense.
 
Probably through k-12 I stayed relatively the same. But since high school, I've changed a lot. I'm probably a rare exception because I definitely agree with the bouncers comment. But if you've been through a lot, like joining the military, or going through some hard core stuff, trust me you change.
 
I think human beings have a lot of potential to change. But it's difficult, if not impossible, to venture out in the unknown.

I think I've changed, and have the tendency to continuously evolve. A lot of my older friends comment on this, yet somehow I take pride in that. I like change, I like to keep moving from one belief/attitude to another. Otherwise how else can you know if something else is better for you, than where you currently stand?

I also sometimes consciously make an effort to adopt new mannerisms to suit my surroundings. It's interesting to see how people treat you differently when you do.
 
I tend to agree with the following quote from the book Strengths Finder 2.0:

Although people certainly do change over time and our personalities adapt, scientists have discovered that core personality traits are relatively stable throughout adulthood, as are our passions and interests.

...

A compelling 23-year longitudinal study of 1,000 children in New Zealand revealed that a child's observed personality at age 3 shows remarkable similarity to his or her reported personality traits at age 26.
Click to expand...

This seems to suggest that in terms of core personality elements there is generally little change. My sense is that the change which does occur primarily comes with a maturation of interpersonal and intrapersonal resource utilization. That doesn't have to be a trend of improved interaction with self and other, but I think for most people it is. I think as we age we learn how to work most effectively with our gifts. That might be looks or athletic ability or empathy or any number of other identified personal resources that help one meet their needs.

I think this holds true for myself and for those I've known a long time. There are cases where the shift has seemed a little more significant, but I think those are cases where what a person relied on in youth (perhaps looks) is no longer as much of a strength in their older years. I think the difference I see is just people being resourceful and switching their emphasis to the development and utilization of other pre-existing strengths.
 
I think we evolve. And that is the same as change. Although I can tell you I still ride bmx have the first car I bought drove it the other day. I still ride motorcycles that's been a life long thing. And photography also has been a life long hobby. I still like to go into the woods and sit. Been doing that most of my life too. I am a lot harder on people than I used to be. I am not everyone's door mat anymore. I would say I am the same a little better a little worse, but still me. My core feelings are the same as they have been for years. It's how I react to people and the world that has changed the most over time.​
 
Some people evolve, some people got layers; others got stronger armors and masks, another changed completely.... I don't know about MBTI types, wildly hypothesizing I would assume N are prone to evolving, while S are prone to getting layers; F types are prone to get stronger armors..no idea about T types.

And I guess the changing aspect of personality counts too. And their living situation, where they socialize. If their living situation aren't suitable for their previous attitude and behaviour, I would say the chance for change in any way are higher.

The question is, how many people go beyond their comfort zone and entered somewhere unknown to them?
 
" He was, incidentally, also a history teacher in high school." freaking awesom



[MENTION=2873]SouloftheLaurel[/MENTION]; you know which teacher I'm referring to.
 
With the dawn of the internet, it's been incredibly easy for me to track people since my early childhood and I can tell you with absolute certainty that people do not change, even from as early as elementary school.

What happens is, people become more exaggerated versions of who they've always been. Sometimes when a person is put in an extreme circumstance they will appear to have a drastic change, but they are simply responding to that situation in a way they would have always responded.

There are exceptions of course (that I have also witnessed), but overall this is what I have observed.
 
How do you view yourself and your relative changes since your own youth, and how do you see your closest friends currently with respect to how they were when they were younger?

I've changed quite dramatically since high school but I agree with your main point which is that most people don't seem to. I view myself 100% differently. From floating through a random world of chance to deeply rooted in the fabric of existence. I've only maintained a couple friendships with people from that era and they too have gone through some major changes. That doesn't seem to be the case with the rest of our graduating class though.
 
I guess I see both sides. I understand that the basic outline of your personality stays somewhat constant. Your fears, motivations and such are built at an early age. I would say that time and experience give you different coping tools that aren't available until you get a bit more of both. You are still basically you but how you handle a situation is different. I don't think there is much difference between high school kids and those still partying in bars every weekend though--not enough distance to make such a sweeping statement that everyone stays the same. Of course there is also a bit of what Res says--you see what you want to see and if you are trained to see with a high school teacher's eyes, you translate other's behavior into what you understand. I know there is stuff that bugged me when I was younger that is more "eh who cares" now. Is that change? I like to think we are capable of change but no matter what there is an inner core of "self" that remains more or less constant.
 
People change all the time in their younger years. I went through a major transformation in high school and college is tempting me to break out again. I think as you get older, it gets tougher to do such radical things.

Or, you could see my change as a realization of what is actually underneath all of those infj layers.
 
I think my personality was fully formed by the time I was seven years old. What has changed are my values, my understanding of myself and others and my sense of limitations. I'm still an introvert though I can be more active socially. I still process the world like an NT. I still can't bear to leave things unsettled. I still become catatonic when I'm asked that evil question, "What are you feeling?"

When I run into old friends, usually the second thing they say is "You haven't changed!"

Maybe some types change. The ones who are always trying to find themselves sound like good candidates.
 
I always believed that the extent of change one voluntarily makes is based on one's ability to face the truths about themselves. Its a very subjective experience. Most people are usually forced by external life circumstances to change and perhaps the more traumatic the experience the more the person may change; whether negatively or positively.

But we are creatures of habit. Playing around with serious change is always linked to some level of anxiety, uncertainty, instability, fear and just not knowing what on the other side. I don't think people change much after high school. I think people usually experience a major upheaval of change once or twice in their lifetimes and it is usually strong enough to impact the persons personality, outlook on life, maybe even faith or spirituality. If you take into a soul level of development thats even more complex.
 
Change is there, but perhaps not response; there is no action.

Part of me says that we are who we are... but that is a depressing way of looking at things. It implies that change is an integral part of humanity but nothing can be done to stop it, even if one wanted to. Maybe that's how it is. But maybe it is also possible to break out of the mold, to effect change or stasis by force of will... it is likely both are true, as both things often are true.

That is all for now, I think.
 
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