Do we just let them do something terrible, or do we try and stop them?

just me said:
At what point do we allow someone we know to make their own choice when we know it is leading to a ruined lifetime?
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There is no allow.

To think this way indicates a tenuous grasp of boundaries.

Each is in posession of their own agency and autonomy.

We may advocate, and we may express our thoughts and feelings.

But there is no allow. Personally or legislatively.

We control only our own person...to the degree we think free will exists, anyway, but thatʼs a whole other kettle of fish.

And who judges what is ruined? Who has the wisdom, prudence, and discernment to know?

Ruined and blessed are words which suggest ideas of the dualistic mind.

Human life both transcends and exists beyond such judgment.

Cheers,
Ian
 
So, a friend tells you he is going to commit suicide tonight. Are you saying it's none of your business?

People have cried for help and were left alone, only to read about another violent scene in the news.

Would a Protector walk away and allow someone crying for help to kill themselves and others?

When we turn our backs and walk away, we are actually allowing bad things to happen because of our "modern" way of thinking or feeling, when we should know we must interfere.
 
The middle path is where reality lies.

You have influence. Use it.

You do not have control. You have to accept what they do with your influence.
 
Elder said:
The middle path is where reality lies.

You have influence. Use it.

You do not have control. You have to accept what they do with your influence.
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Thanks for saying in a few words what I could not in many, many more.

This. So this.

Best,
Ian
 
just me said:
Would a Protector walk away
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I think about and aspire to be a servant, and perhaps a shepherd.

But Protector? I should not seek to do for others that which I could never do for myself.

Cheers,
Ian
 
When we place others before self, and when we stand watch over the sheep, life is so different. One of the words used to describe infj is Protector.
 
I will grab a woman walking into traffic. I will talk with people for someone in trouble sometimes. I never said anything about controlling them.
 
I feel like I need more context to answer this.
EDIT: read your follow-up posts. I think the suicide thing is not as easy a call as people sometimes think. Obviously, if it’s too ambiguous, by all means alert authorities. If it’s someone you know we’ll just venting, expressing ideation without means or clear intent, let them emote freely. And honestly there are other let thems. A friend of mine is a pain specialist. He has definitely prescribed cocktails for people with horrible conditions/incurable diseases knowing full well it is putting a choice into their hands. The ambiguous not let thems apply pretty broadly to people in serious mental health crises or borderlines types who will harm themselves more severely than they meant. Idk, it’s complicated. I have had heroin addict sectioned under my state’s mental health act because I know going out to use what is now almost purely fentanyl is the same as Russian roulette.
 
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just me said:
So, a friend tells you he is going to commit suicide tonight. Are you saying it's none of your business?

People have cried for help and were left alone, only to read about another violent scene in the news.

Would a Protector walk away and allow someone crying for help to kill themselves and others?

When we turn our backs and walk away, we are actually allowing bad things to happen because of our "modern" way of thinking or feeling, when we should know we must interfere.
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Do something.

Doing something doesn't always work out and could mean the person rejects you, but I would try. You can give an anonymous tip for a wellness check if you think the friend is in danger.

There are people in my life who are suicidal, and I think I've done all I can for them after reaching out, contacting those in their inner circle, or reporting them, etc. On different occasions, I've made a difference. Once, a friend posted a suicide note on social media, and his other friend and I dropped everything, traveled to his city, and met him at his apartment. I think we saved his life. More importantly, we let him know that our love for him was not conditional because he shared some news with us that he thought people would reject him for.


With issues that are bad decisions but not life-threatening, you need to weigh the situation. In some cases, it is better to be a supportive friend rather than a critical one, because people who make poor decisions often feel alone or rejected.

just me said:
I will grab a woman walking into traffic. I will talk with people for someone in trouble sometimes. I never said anything about controlling them.
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I'm most likely alive today because a friend grabbed me and pulled me out of the path of a possible drunk driver. I looked both ways before crossing a street late at night, and seconds later, someone turned the corner, out of control and speeding. He pulled me out of the car's path.
 
Also, if suicide comes calling you; shouldn't you talk with someone and try everything you can to make the thoughts of taking your own life go away? I say, of course. Life is short enough already, and you would affect others' lives. Thanks for the responses. At some point in our own lives, someone is going to need us.
 
just me said:
At what point do we allow someone we know to make their own choice when we know it is leading to a ruined lifetime?
Click to expand...

just me said:
So, a friend tells you he is going to commit suicide tonight. Are you saying it's none of your business?
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I’d say emergency intervention is a no-brainer if a friend is alive but has already physically harmed themselves. This is just common humanity.

But as others have said here, you cannot force them to want to live. The fact they told you probably means that they need attention and maybe help, but are desperate and are rehearsing suicide in their minds. If they’d already decided irrevocably you’d probably have only found out afterwards.

A friend might try and help them see and steer towards other and more positive choices rather than try and block the dark one they are considering right now. But more than anything else they may just need a friend who will give them company and listen to them sympathetically and without judgement. Neither of these is easy though and you can get hurt if it goes pear shaped.
 
just me said:
So, a friend tells you he is going to commit suicide tonight. Are you saying it's none of your business?

People have cried for help and were left alone, only to read about another violent scene in the news.

Would a Protector walk away and allow someone crying for help to kill themselves and others?

When we turn our backs and walk away, we are actually allowing bad things to happen because of our "modern" way of thinking or feeling, when we should know we must interfere.
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Not to detract from the gravity of the situation, your OP was wide open for interpretation. It's a bit harsh to suddenly add a bunch of context and then deride what was not a bad answer, but again, I understand that you're facing a stressful dilemma. Hoping your acquaintance weathers the storm with help from you or whoever is able to do so.
 
I think the openness had a reason or reasons, and they may or may not come out ever if they did. It could possibly be said in other situations.

A friend of mine invited me to his brother's funeral many years back. The way the story goes, his brother was constantly haunted by demons. He had even painted a picture of dark figures, which one of the family's helpers talked with him about. Their helper knew him and knew they were demons. They sought help in the past, with no avail. He had gone to a new doctor who prescribed him new drugs.

The way the story goes, he went the next night and talked with his Mother in the kitchen. He told her how much he loved her and all. Told her the new meds made the demons go away. Walked out into the back yard and killed himself. The note left stated he would rather die peacefully than with the demons bothering him all the time. Who could have saw that one coming?

I, personally, think it was coming all along with his condition.
 
"Have you ever thought about committing suicide?" This is a common question from doctor's papers we fill out. It must be a trick question, coming from a back doctor or urologist. That is not why we are there, but they ask.
I would almost bet there are more blue moons than "yes" answers, truthful or not.

No, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night...
 
just me said:
At some point in our own lives, someone is going to need us.
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I think a really big problem is that we need genuine understanding, connection, and support in our lives all the time. Our society is more superficial. There are superficial patterns, roles, and expectations that don't allow people to feel truly supported, understood, and loved by community.


just me said:
Who could have saw that one coming?
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Yes, in his case, it seemed obvious something like this would happen. It sounds like he was schizophrenic, but not in a manageable way (which many people with this illness are). It's a frustrating illness for people who suffer from it, even if they are able to manage it and live "regular" lives.
 
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