Game of Thrones (show)

Lerxst

Lerxst

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Now that the show's into season 5, what do you all think of the direction it's gone? I never read the books. Not that I have anything against books, just that modern fantasy isn't my literary cup of tea. So I can't compare it to the books, I can only rate it on its own merits.

I just started watching it prior to season 4 last year and caught myself up on it with a week-long marathon before I started with season 4. I've not gone back through the previous episodes and started re-watching them to catch the nuances I missed the first time around.

I have to say that season 4.5-5 seems rather weak compared to the earlier ones. Daenerys' story line morphed into something out of a Star Wars prequel, White Walkers have pretty much vanished off the face of the planet for over a season and Bran just doesn't exist anymore. They killed off the main good characters and the main bad characters so there's no one of particular interest to root for or against. Ramsay, for as dark as he is, is pretty much a one-note-tune compared to Joffrey and doesn't hold the shear king-who-can-do-anything psychopathic terror card that he did.

And Dorne is a train wreck...
 
Lerxst said:
Now that the show's into season 5, what do you all think of the direction it's gone? I never read the books. Not that I have anything against books, just that modern fantasy isn't my literary cup of tea. So I can't compare it to the books, I can only rate it on its own merits.

I just started watching it prior to season 4 last year and caught myself up on it with a week-long marathon before I started with season 4. I've not gone back through the previous episodes and started re-watching them to catch the nuances I missed the first time around.

I have to say that season 4.5-5 seems rather weak compared to the earlier ones. Daenerys' story line morphed into something out of a Star Wars prequel, White Walkers have pretty much vanished off the face of the planet for over a season and Bran just doesn't exist anymore. They killed off the main good characters and the main bad characters so there's no one of particular interest to root for or against. Ramsay, for as dark as he is, is pretty much a one-note-tune compared to Joffrey and doesn't hold the shear king-who-can-do-anything psychopathic terror card that he did.

And Dorne is a train wreck...
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Basically, they followed the books storylines exactly for Season One and pretty closely for most of the show up until about half way through Season 4. The final two books in the series haven't been written/finished yet, so George RR Martin gave HBO to just take the show in a different direction and do whatever they felt with it while he goes off and finishes the books.

Anywho, thats why it's starting to get pretty weak sauce. Martin is the genius really, and I don't thnk the writers at HBO can compare.

As for Bran -- the last two books in the series so far were split. A lot of new characters were introduced and so half of the existing charachters went into one book and then the ones that were left out were written into the next book. They haven't done this with the show so I have no idea why Bran has been left out of this season. I think this is a pity as I really loved his story line (in the book anyway!). I know it wasn't the most popular one, but it was definitely one that tickled the Ni.

Last weeks episode was better than it had been. I am yet to watch the latest ep.

I agree -- Dorne is an effing train wreck. Whats with the hot chick tossing the guy the anti dote? Martin never would have shown such mercy! It's clearly just a plot ttactic to get more sex and nudity in. lol
 
Katniss Neverbeef said:
Basically, they followed the books storylines exactly for Season One and pretty closely for most of the show up until about half way through Season 4. The final two books in the series haven't been written/finished yet, so George RR Martin gave HBO to just take the show in a different direction and do whatever they felt with it while he goes off and finishes the books.

Anywho, thats why it's starting to get pretty weak sauce. Martin is the genius really, and I don't thnk the writers at HBO can compare.

As for Bran -- the last two books in the series so far were split. A lot of new characters were introduced and so half of the existing charachters went into one book and then the ones that were left out were written into the next book. They haven't done this with the show so I have no idea why Bran has been left out of this season. I think this is a pity as I really loved his story line (in the book anyway!). I know it wasn't the most popular one, but it was definitely one that tickled the Ni.

Last weeks episode was better than it had been. I am yet to watch the latest ep.

I agree -- Dorne is an effing train wreck. Whats with the hot chick tossing the guy the anti dote? Martin never would have shown such mercy! It's clearly just a plot ttactic to get more sex and nudity in. lol
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I see GRRM being a genius in some ways with the writing and I see him being lazy in other ways. There was a critic/editor that once told me that your story should involve the most dramatic event of your character's life. Martin took that to the extreme when he translated that event as "death". Otherwise, for the show, I find myself reflecting more on the Targaryans and what must have happened prior to any of this story, more than the actual story on the screen a lot of times.

Then again, I'm still one of those people bitter about Eddard... I really liked Eddard... really, really liked him. Furthermore, Sean Bean has been one of my favorite actors since I saw him in Patriot Games back in 1990-ish. Not knowing anything about the show, going in to it, I was surprised to see Sean Bean play the lead... and somewhat terrified at the same time. 90% of his characters die, so I was less-than hopeful, but that 1 out of 10 times he survives, I always feel a little happy for him :)

Then in seasons 3 and 4 they killed off pretty much every protagonist and antagonist left in the story. The series could have ended there and I would have been fine with it but noooooo... they kept going. I find it hard to actually "root" for anyone now since there seems to be an apparent lack of any kind of substantial conflict going on. Up to the end of season 4, no one was ever safe and you were always expecting someone to randomly die. Season 5 just seems like a walk in the park compared to the others - Bronn should have been dead had Martin played a direct role in writing his story.

I heard Martin was giving them guidelines of where he intended to go and how he wanted to end it so, we'll see.

Dorne... ugghhhh! Jaime's daughter/niece put it best when she asked, "What are you doing here?". I think she pretty much asked what was on everyone's mind - exactly that the hell are they doing there? There's really been no need for any of Dorne to have taken place, other than to get Jaime out of Kings Landing for a while. I've just spent the past two weeks re-watching seasons 1 and 2 and the battles/sword fights in those are intense. The Sandsnakes, or whoever the hell they are, just look like a class of 1st graders on Romper Room by comparison; that choreographer/director should be shot.

The biggest and #1 gripe I have with Martin is the way he kills off his characters. It's always the ultimate anti-climactic climax; the least likely way possible. The Cleganes, for instance should have faced off, brother vs. brother. instead, they're both pretty much left for dead fighting irrelevant battles that have nothing to do with each other. Rob could have died, but it should have been in a battle with the Lannisters, not some cheap-ass wedding ambush. I get it. He's going for a gritty, real life approach but I don't sit down to read a book or watch a movie to experience gritty, real life crap - I want action and drama! That involves a standard story curve that has a climax somewhere.
 
sure ned stark was a great character and sean bean is always awesome but there was a poetic justice to what happened to ned

If i remember rightly the first episode of the whole series began with a young lad of the nights watch having a run in with the white walkers beyond the wall because of the arrogance of his commanding officer; the young lad then traumatised by what he had seen fled the nights watch and was then caught by neds men

ned then chopped the young lads head off because the laws dictate that any nights watch deserters have to be executed

Well then a while later ned finds his own head on the chopping block....

''But ned was just following the law'' some might say...but laws should only be followed as long as they are humane and moral

If laws are inhumane and immoral then they should be DISOBEYED

Ned didn't need to kill the lad especially when the king was his best buddy; ned should have listened to the lad's grievances and then realised that the wall needed to be manned by professional soldiers not cut-throats from the cities jails. He could have written to the king and suggested that each kingdom send a body of armed men to serve on the nights watch for a set period of time with each contributing according to the size of their population. The criminals sent to the wall could then act as the wall builders and learn a trade as they work off their crime, whilst the professional soldiers could serve as the rangers.

Ned might be said to have 'honour' in the sense that he played by the rules of the system but sometimes systems become oppressive and then it is dishonourable to follow their dictates

Daenerys the liberator, on the other hand, writes her own rules according to her own internal moral compass; she is the true idealistic visionary of the series

She'd have my sword :)
 
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muir said:
sure ned stark was a great character and sean bean is always awesome but there was a poetic justice to what happened to ned

If i remember rightly the first episode of the whole series began with a young lad of the nights watch having a run in with the white walkers beyond the wall because of the arrogance of his commanding officer; the young lad then traumatised by what he had seen fled the nights watch and was then caught by neds men

ned then chopped the young lads head off because the laws dictate that any nights watch deserters have to be executed

Well then a while later ned finds his own head on the chopping block....

''But ned was just following the law'' some might say...but laws should only be followed as long as they are humane and moral

If laws are inhumane and immoral then they should be DISOBEYED

Ned didn't need to kill the lad especially when the king was his best buddy; ned should have listened to the lad's grievances and then realised that the wall needed to be manned by professional soldiers not cut-throats from the cities jails. He could have written to the king and suggested that each kingdom send a body of armed men to serve on the nights watch for a set period of time with each contributing according to the size of their population. The criminals sent to the wall could then act as the wall builders and learn a trade as they work off their crime, whilst the professional soldiers could serve as the rangers.

Ned might be said to have 'honour' in the sense that he played by the rules of the system but sometimes systems become oppressive and then it is dishonourable to follow their dictates

Daenerys the liberator, on the other hand, writes her own rules according to her own internal moral compass; she is the true idealistic visionary of the series

She'd have my sword :)
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Varys would be the guy I'd side with. He admitted to being able to free Ned Stark, but refused to because he also saw Ned as just bringing about "more of the same". Ned was a supporter of Stannis, who was legally entitled to the throne but as we see, Stannis is anything but moral.

It was only until the seasons after Ned's death that I began to see the benefit in his dying. Robert wasn't exactly a "good" king and Stannis would be an even worse king. Ned was too caught up in the law to actually do anything that would be considered moral. Then again, the whole back story before the show, paints him as being a former rebel, so we're never really given the reasons why he would go from being a rebel to being the law other than the "Mad King" being mad.

Renly, would have made an alright king, but was in it for the wrong reasons and was also shown as being generally weak and naive. There was no way Martin would let him survive and by season two, he was gone, so...

Varys has been the one character throughout that does things for the good of the realm, not personal gain. I wish he'd play a larger part in the show, or at least have more screen time. I'm hoping he comes back in to the picture in the next episode or two.

I think Martin has painted Daenerys as a picture of what a leader should be. She's also probably my favorite long term character (next to Tyrion) so I'm hoping she survives *fingers crossed*. Besides... freakin' dragons!!!

But, remember, Martin likes to distract people from the real threats and then shock us later on. Remember the Warlocks who stole her dragons in season 2? They also tried to assassinate her early season 3. I wouldn't be surprised if, 3 seasons later, they make a return and try something.
 
Lerxst said:
Varys would be the guy I'd side with. He admitted to being able to free Ned Stark, but refused to because he also saw Ned as just bringing about "more of the same". Ned was a supporter of Stannis, who was legally entitled to the throne but as we see, Stannis is anything but moral.

It was only until the seasons after Ned's death that I began to see the benefit in his dying. Robert wasn't exactly a "good" king and Stannis would be an even worse king. Ned was too caught up in the law to actually do anything that would be considered moral. Then again, the whole back story before the show, paints him as being a former rebel, so we're never really given the reasons why he would go from being a rebel to being the law other than the "Mad King" being mad.

Renly, would have made an alright king, but was in it for the wrong reasons and was also shown as being generally weak and naive. There was no way Martin would let him survive and by season two, he was gone, so...

Varys has been the one character throughout that does things for the good of the realm, not personal gain. I wish he'd play a larger part in the show, or at least have more screen time. I'm hoping he comes back in to the picture in the next episode or two.

I think Martin has painted Daenerys as a picture of what a leader should be. She's also probably my favorite long term character (next to Tyrion) so I'm hoping she survives *fingers crossed*. Besides... freakin' dragons!!!

But, remember, Martin likes to distract people from the real threats and then shock us later on. Remember the Warlocks who stole her dragons in season 2? They also tried to assassinate her early season 3. I wouldn't be surprised if, 3 seasons later, they make a return and try something.
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Well varys, tyrion and daenerys all begin to converge

It's very rare that an idealist gets into a position of power so when they do idealists need to rally to the banner! (usually idealists are assassinated)
 
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Petyr Baelish plays the game better than anyone. No contest. He is on a different level that rivals only Prince Doran Martell. You'll see.
 
Wyote said:
Petyr Baelish plays the game better than anyone. No contest. He is on a different level that rivals only Prince Doran Martell. You'll see.
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No spoilers please! (i haven't read the books lol)
 
Wyote said:
It's in no way a spoiler unless I'm right haha.
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Oh...a prediction is it?

Well if we're giving predictions....

The whole thing about jura having that stone skin sickness...that's got to come into play some how

Also at the end of the episode he seemed to be hatching a new plan to see the queen again at the fighting pits and if i'm not mistaken the stone sickness is passed on by touch

Like i said above....idealists are usually assassinated
 
muir said:
Oh...a prediction is it?

Well if we're giving predictions....

The whole thing about jura having that stone skin sickness...that's got to come into play some how

Also at the end of the episode he seemed to be hatching a new plan to see the queen again at the fighting pits and if i'm not mistaken the stone sickness is passed on by touch

Like i said above....idealists are usually assassinated
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Then I predict that arya stark will become the coolest character in the entire series, mostly because she already is.
Though the whole winter is coming - zombie stuff is cool too :)
 
hmmm...it all seems to be slipping away from the main characters

I think daenerys looks uncomfortable with the whole fighting pits thing.....she's already compromising herself

That was a bit of a dilemma
 
Man, season 6 better be worth it... I get the feeling GRRM and the show writers are the types that want to burn the world down just to watch it burn. Seriously, have you ever seen one of the "good guys" improve their situation... ever? They all go from bad to worse, until they die. The only exception is Daenerys, so how long til she gets a knife in her back by some anti-climactic, off-screen plot.
 
Well, I just saw the seasons finale, some things were different from the books, and since the series has now caught up with the books I suspect that things will be mostly be winged from here on out.

The reason for the difference between how the season ended for Cersei in the series compared to the books is because the thing that happened in the book did not agree well with the catholic church that owns the buildings. That said, The biggest surprise for me was the season end for Arya and John. I sorta expected to see more of samwell since the book has him further ahead then most of these timelines. I guess the timelines are still different per character but it feels so simultaneous because multiple characters are being followed at the same time in the series with shots that suggest a meanwhile rather than a 2 weeks earlier/3 weeks later kind of dance. Which I guess is fine but I suppose it would have been more befitting if they waited with some of the season endings for characters till the start of next season. I would have liked to see a season ending for Bran, but I think he is the most likely to appear again in the next seasons first episode.

Overall I like the direction the series has taken, now that it has mostly caught up and passed by some of the characters their storylines in the books. The writer is an extremely slow one, so at least this way I know I will get to see the end of the story before the end of my lifetime :p I do not know if season 6 has been officially announced yet but it should appear cause they've been filming that pre-summer vacation, I saw adds for extras (background personnel, like people in the crowd) being posted in the spring so I guess that's plenty of announcement, as most of the VFX takes too long to do well and this good within mere weeks of filming ;p.

Phew that one hard to write without revealing spoilers :p
 
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I read a bit of literature, but it's mostly pre-1950's, with the exception of some Isaac Asimov and the like. Never was able to sit down with any modern type of fantasy since I was a teenager (Xanth series). College kind of corrupted me and actually (gasp) gave me some appreciation for the classic writers - Thoreau, Emmerson, Poe, etc. and that's most of my library.

When did GRRM start writing this series again? Early 1990's or so right? I heard mention that he still uses and old MD-DOS PC for his writing so it fits in that time frame somewhere. I sort of get how it can take a while to write a story (been there, done that) but to not be able to think up and write story ideas leads me to be more and more critical of some things I see in the show.

I see some of it as being his inability, or hesitation to show a truly dramatic scene unfold. It's like he's almost afraid to write some scenes with certain interactions, so he decides to do something totally opposite. It works at first, but after a while it's pretty much a one-trick pony. You take every scenario you can think up in your head and then place bets on it not being any of them.

So many scenes could have been awesomely-epic to watch! And then he does some crap like leave Sandor Clegane for dead on a hillside...
 
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