Is anyone a real liberal?

Darc

Darc

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Yeah so here's my deal: I spent many years very confused and not really all that fulfilled or happy. I had my first job when I was 15 or so, and at first it was great, I finally had money to buy all the things I had always wanted, go to the mall, hang out, buy nice clothes, all the cool and hip cds I had always wanted, party and treat girls to nights out or whatever but no matter what I bought I just didn't quite feel fulfilled and thus inevitably I started reading a lot and looking for self fulfillment and got into all this eastern philosophy and counter culture type stuff that different that wasn't well known about in the majority and it just filled my mind with wonder and new ideas. But still, I spent many years of my life searching and wondering what it was all for, not really von tent with the status quo until sometime in my 20s I by chance was told about Karl Marx and Marxism after this individual noticed my fascination and interest in Che Guevara and then came my interest in that whole world.


So I fluttered around the political world for a while, but a few months to a year I found myself feeling very disenchanted. In one instance I found myself relieved st knowing what all this consumption and materialism was about, on another hand, I found that many who call or consider themselves liberal to be very disingrniund and oddly felt as though often were hiding something. I then felt like no matter where I went, I could not find anyone who I could hardly have an honest open and direct conversation or about political theory and all of these vaguely liberal and perhaps Marxian values and ideals.

I found myself at a crossing point, if there's no hope for Marxism, socialism, then what hope is there for the future,before a better world?

What happened to democracy, equal rights? And I felt like a part of my youthful optimism and faith was lost a little. Deep down,maybe at our core all human beings are a little greedy and selfish, and maybe the bibles right, maybe we are all sinners.

Now I look at much of the world with dismay and heartache as I deeply von template if he world will see the error of its ways. I still think Karl Marx was right all this time about his theories and what he wrote about, but unfortunately, perhaps putting that into action is another thing entirely...
 
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@Darc there are people who would be happy to discuss Marxism, liberalism and/or anything else! Perhaps it's a little easier to find them online, as you can target a specific groups of people better that way. If you'd like to discuss any of these topics, I'd be more than happy to discuss them with you.

In a real sense, the Western world is a world in which ideologies have died away. But maybe it's not such a bad thing. Ideology and democracy usually don't get along too well.
 
In practical terms, I don't believe Liberalism is a lost cause. After all, all people can theoretically do the following: own property, vote, receive an education, etc.

When it comes to Communism and Marxism in economic-terms, I don't think that people are good at centralized or decentralized economic planning. I have yet to see a command-economy work long enough.

 
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Pin said:
In practical terms, I don't lost believe Liberalism is a lost cause. After all, all people can theoretically do the following: own property, vote, receive an education, etc.

When it comes to Communism and Marxism in economic-terms, I don't think that people are good at centralized or decentralized economic planning. I have yet to see a command-economy work long enough.

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You don’t lost believe? I’m trying to solve this puzzle.
 
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Pin said:
In practical terms, I don't believe Liberalism is a lost cause. After all, all people can theoretically do the following: own property, vote, receive an education, etc.

When it comes to Communism and Marxism in economic-terms, I don't think that people are good at centralized or decentralized economic planning. I have yet to see a command-economy work long enough.

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Ah yes, I believe being conservative in Canada and even America to some degree can make you still relatively liberal in some instances.
 
Ren said:
@Darc there are people who would be happy to discuss Marxism, liberalism and/or anything else! Perhaps it's a little easier to find them online, as you can target a specific groups of people better that way. If you'd like to discuss any of these topics, I'd be more than happy to discuss them with you.

In a real sense, the Western world is a world in which ideologies have died away. But maybe it's not such a bad thing. Ideology and democracy usually don't get along too well.
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Ah that's good enough. I knew some people on PerC who were alright but some of them were kind of privileged and I could only felt like there was a clear agenda going with much of the left. My experiences on reddit were kind of atrocious, and much to my chagrin could not really get a clear or direct answer from many of them and was left with this feeling that many of them were hiding something. In real life, most people seem to be vaguely conservative or maybe liberal in a very basic voting sense but know little in depth about the theories or topic and likewise, seemingly everyone is indoctrinated into all this capitalism rhetoric and it's a little bit more then frustrating.

And that's my experience with capitalism, who knows what it is, the same old doctrine: It gets everyone working hard and keeps them motivated leads to invention, and progress, or you know we'd live outside there wouldn't be any civilization. I mean what do people think we're doing all the time, people like capitalism is such a magical unexplainable phenomenon and all because we have to work so hard all the time and you should be happy it's the greatest thing in the world, blah blah, omg, how could you not contribute this is all so amazing, but yeah socialism lead to clean running free water, public education, and shorter work hours and a weekend, and then the whole "communism leads to dictatorships" and yeah whatever look at the mess crony capitalism has taken. Ew, oh God, oh God. But you can't reason with half of these people.

But there's no reasoning with these people. Bug then I look at what's become of the left publicly and it's not really working. They're calling themselves liberals still but I think they're just equally capitalists and um, yeah I feel like there's something sinister with whatever is going with the left. Everyone is quick to lambasting much of anything seemingly populous or conservative (what democratic) but then they can't clearly explain what their motives are, their directors, and there'd not even hardly any free speech or open debates it's hard to have equality when hardly anyone is acting equal.

Finding faith in a higher power and substantial value in that was indispensable to me. I realized the key to having faith was merely thst in itself. If you believe in something enough, why not have some faith in it as well?

But alas, watch as the screaming androgynous uni sexual non binary protest in agony and disdain.
 
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Darc said:
Ah yes, I believe being conservative in Canada and even America to some degree can make you still relatively liberal in some instances.
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Well, if you're referring to liberalism in the sense of being center-left on the political spectrum, that's generally odd in the United States (Notable Exceptions: Eugene Debbs, Bernie Sanders, George Mcgovern, Elizabeth Warren, Adlai Stevenson). The United States is generally more center-right. The so-called left-wing party, the Democrats, are right-wing by the standards of most highly developed nations.



When it comes to Liberalism, in the sense of Classical Liberalism, both Democrats and Republicans are. They claim to be for freedom, the right of everyone to vote, and free trade.

Classical Conservatism (Monarchists, Toryists, Traditionalist Conservatism) hasn't existed as a major political faction in the United States since 1776.

How did that go?

Mobbing_the_Tories_-_Project_Gutenberg_eText_16960.jpg

macaronymaking.jpg
 
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Pin said:
Well, if you're referring to liberalism in the sense of being center-left on the political spectrum, that's generally odd in the United States (Notable Exceptions: Eugene Debbs, Bernie Sanders, George Mcgovern, Elizabeth Warren, Adlai Stevenson). The United States is generally more center-right. The so-called left-wing party, the Democrats, are right-wing by the standards of most highly developed nations.



When it comes to Liberalism, in the sense of Classical Liberalism, both Democrats and Republicans are. They claim to be for freedom, the right of everyone to vote, and free trade.

Classical Conservatism (Monarchists, Toryists, Traditionalist Conservatism) hasn't existed as a major political faction in the United States since 1776.

How did that go?

Mobbing_the_Tories_-_Project_Gutenberg_eText_16960.jpg

macaronymaking.jpg
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Well yes I meant classical liberalism we believe in democracy free speech, civil liberties, equality. It's all generally liberal in a sense and even now in regards to our more recent past its still relatively liberal in some instances. Perfect track record but the left does not really either, numerals atrocities committed under the guise of liberalism....
 
The more I think about it the more I come around to the left more again, because I realize that so much of the decline in the west is pretty much due to capitalism and I look at my country, the states and a there, to very clearly capitalism which really led to this undeniable decline.

The whole subjective thing and my FI, I mean how much journalistic evidence mist I provide for and none to remotely believe or take anything I say seriously?

The decline gas been dually noted in many publications, and media outlets. Sensationalism? Perhaps, but when I look at ate of the left, it's still kind of capitalists fault and I feel they try to undermine it all the time. I still hold our gorgeous better world but, but capitalism can seemingly not be stopped. They just won't stop doing this to themselves.
 
Darc said:
The more I think about it the more I come around to the left more again, because I realize that so much of the decline in the west is pretty much due to capitalism and I look at my country, the states and a there, to very clearly capitalism which really led to this undeniable decline.
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Believe me, I am far from a worshipper of unbridled capitalism. But can you give me an example of a non-capitalist country that's doing well?

Let's take a useful index developed by the UN Development Programme: the inequality-adjusted human development index (IHDI). Broadly speaking, the IHDI is a composite index of life expectancy, education, and per capita income, when inequality is accounted for. In 2015, the top countries for IHDI were: Norway, Iceland, Australia, Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, Denmark, Sweden, Ireland, Finland, Canada, and Slovenia. All capitalist democracies.

Of course, it would be interesting to look at how the IHDI is defined as an indicator. But the evidence seems to suggest that alternatives to capitalist democracies aren't faring too well. Income inequality in most "socialist" countries is actually much worse than in capitalist democracies, let's not forget that.
 
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