San Bernardino

[Flavus Aquila]

Initial investigations cautioned heavily not to assume terrorism. Seriously?

ISIS links found.

Why can't people just settle down and enjoy their neighbourhood?

 

[Sriracha]

Damn HOAs.

 

[Artisan]

ISIS links found.

A pledge of allegiance to ISIS was posted from the woman's FB account.
They're still working to confirm if she was the one that posted it though.

[video=youtube;b1C2QDkFZAE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1C2QDkFZAE[/video]

 

[just me]

Israeli Intelligence, no name used, states he visited a man in the US months ago that is on our 24/7 watch for terrorists. The fact he stopped visiting the man caused our administration to stop watching him. In the meantime, he was gearing up.

His woman is on the Pakistani and Saudi terror lists.

..but it's all about more strict gun laws to hide behind. (rolls eyes)

 

[PintoBean]

A pledge of allegiance to ISIS was posted from the woman's FB account.
They're still working to confirm if she was the one that posted it though.

[video=youtube;b1C2QDkFZAE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1C2QDkFZAE[/video]

She was actually banned from using FB by FB previously for pro-terror postings.
Is this issue even seriously up for debate? ISIS or some other group, both individuals were obviously deep into terrorism. Does it matter which group they subscribed to?

 

[PintoBean]

I am getting tired of the phrase "radicalized" in context of this kind of thing. It makes it sound like the individuals involved got radicalized the way one gets the flu or something. As in, it just befell them,they had no choice in the matter. It is actually quite belittling and degrading to other non-violent Muslims to insinuate that people just can't help it when they catch the radical bug as clearly most people (Muslims included) can and do help it.

 

[Artisan]

She was actually banned from using FB by FB previously for pro-terror postings.
Is this issue even seriously up for debate? ISIS or some other group, this couple both were obviously into terrorism. Does it matter which group they subscribed to?

Nop. But I understand why a topic was made for it, I mean the us is not really big on admitting this was terrorism,
especially not that whomever carried it out was either ISIS or judging by the husbands contacts "Moderate Syrian Opposition (al-Nusra)"
just like the government pretends the evidence that its ally turkey finances and supports Isis is fake too.

Initial investigations cautioned heavily not to assume terrorism. Seriously?

[MENTION=13730]PintoBean[/MENTION] I rest my case.

Why can't people just settle down and enjoy their neighbourhood?

Because this couple were religious extremists who wanted to try to force their views down others throats in the name of their god.

It is actually quite belittling and degrading to other non-violent Muslims to insinuate that people just can't help it when they catch the radical bug as clearly most people (Muslims included) can and do help it.

The fact that you feel the need to say there are non-violent Muslims means more than you think. For example, I know Muslims who do not consider terrorists to be Muslims.
Even though these people do it out of religious convictions. It worries me however, how little the Muslim community seems to do to fight extremism within their ranks.

 

[just me]

Damn HOAs.

So true. LMAO

 

[just me]

People like these two should not even be here.

Our crime rate with shootings in my county is extremely high. Most shooters have prior records and have been let back on the streets.

Obama has appointed a man with links to Hamas as our new czar to fight ISIS. I wish someone would help the man get his head out of his hole.

 

[Artisan]

People like these two should not even be here.

Our crime rate with shootings in my county is extremely high. Most shooters have prior records and have been let back on the streets.

Obama has appointed a man with links to Hamas as our new czar to fight ISIS. I wish someone would help the man get his head out of his hole.

Obama is pretty much a puppet anyway. noticed how every time he makes claims that ISIS is under control or whatever terrorist related, the next day hes proven wrong?
And how he always tries to be super Politically Correct instead of just giving the facts and saying it as it is?

Whomever is the next US president, I hope it is at-least someone who knows what they're doing.

 

[Rcs6r]

Obama has appointed a man with links to Hamas as our new czar to fight ISIS.

Forgive me for living under a rock, but when did this happen?

 

[Flavus Aquila]

I am getting tired of the phrase "radicalized" in context of this kind of thing. It makes it sound like the individuals involved got radicalized the way one gets the flu or something. As in, it just befell them,they had no choice in the matter. It is actually quite belittling and degrading to other non-violent Muslims to insinuate that people just can't help it when they catch the radical bug as clearly most people (Muslims included) can and do help it.

It bugs me that particular muslims are only termed "radicalised" once they actually kill someone, or get caught planning it. Wouldn't this guy have become radicalised years ago, or even have been brought up radicalised?

 

[Wolfskillian]

It bugs me that particular muslims are only termed "radicalised" once they actually kill someone, or get caught planning it. Wouldn't this guy have become radicalised years ago, or even have been brought up radicalised?

You and [MENTION=13730]PintoBean[/MENTION] bring up a very solid point. I think it definitely comes from being brought up radicalized. Though, I hear stories all the time that many of these radicalists changed their way of beliefs drastically in a very short period of time. Do they buy into the propaganda? Though I think it's more of an older, mentor-like figure recruiting young people at a stage in their life when they're vulnerable to these things because they're trying desperately to figure themselves out and find their identity in this world. They're idealists and want to believe in something worth fighting for. I'm not in any way trying to justify these acts. More like trying to understand how they happen in the first place.

 

[just me]

Forgive me for living under a rock, but when did this happen?

Last week.

 

[CindyLou]

It bugs me that particular muslims are only termed "radicalised" once they actually kill someone, or get caught planning it. Wouldn't this guy have become radicalised years ago, or even have been brought up radicalised?

Yes. But you can't always tell who is radicalized because of taqiya.

 

[PintoBean]

You and [MENTION=13730]PintoBean[/MENTION] bring up a very solid point. I think it definitely comes from being brought up radicalized. Though, I hear stories all the time that many of these radicalists changed their way of beliefs drastically in a very short period of time. Do they buy into the propaganda? Though I think it's more of an older, mentor-like figure recruiting young people at a stage in their life when they're vulnerable to these things because they're trying desperately to figure themselves out and find their identity in this world. They're idealists and want to believe in something worth fighting for. I'm not in any way trying to justify these acts. More like trying to understand how they happen in the first place.

People who make these choices are no more vulnerable than the rest of us. And it is a choice. It is a kind of cultural coddling and even belittling to all Muslims everywhere to act under the assumption that these individuals are vulnerable to the point of helplessness in the face of murder-mongering ideology. Idealism is a dicey word, but so what if they do subscribe to this or that extreme belief system? Blasting a bunch of unarmed civil servants or concert goers is not fighting, but rather simply murdering. So it demeans everyone's intelligence to assume that they are just too starry-eyed to see this for themselves. The people who do this obviously like murdering and they make the choice to follow an evil path. I don't really think there is much to understand because they are not complex, they are not "masterminds" (as the media is so find of referring to many them). It is just repugnant, brutish behavior and we should not imbue the whys and wherefores with too much importance. It creates a never-ending venue for the apologists and excuses of cultural relativists.

 

[Wolfskillian]

[MENTION=13730]PintoBean[/MENTION]

Agreed. And I wasn't talking about Muslims. Just young people in general. As a teacher I know all too well how easily swayed a young mind can be. As you said, no more vulnerable than the rest of us- and that was my point. However, I do think that it is more complex than they just like killing people. They are idealists- killing and fighting for their own ideals and pursing an agenda they wholeheartedly believe in. What looks evil to us is the exact opposite to them. In their frame of mind, they are doing God's work. Do all Muslims share in this belief? No! But these "radicalized" ones sure as hell do.

 

[PintoBean]

[MENTION=13730]PintoBean[/MENTION]

Agreed. And I wasn't talking about Muslims. Just young people in general. As a teacher I know all too well how easily swayed a young mind can be. As you said, no more vulnerable than the rest of us- and that was my point. However, I do think that it is more complex than they just like killing people. They are idealists- killing and fighting for their own ideals and pursing an agenda they wholeheartedly believe in. What looks evil to us is the exact opposite to them. In their frame of mind, they are doing God's work. Do all Muslims share in this belief? No! But these "radicalized" ones sure as hell do.

Right. But we are talking about Muslims here, so it is dancing around the issue to say we are not. And I quite think they do know that it is evil in terms of the legal system they have chosen, even immigrated to live under.

 

[Wolfskillian]

[MENTION=13730]PintoBean[/MENTION]

Agreed again. I'm sure they completely understand that it is an illegal and evil act. But to them, their holy war is above the law. Even though they have immigrated, they have not assimilated to the culture they have immigrated to. Not by far.

 

[Tamagochi]

I could rant a lot on this.

The best key to understanding, in my opinion, would be to imagine a catholic society from XVII century Europe to be transported straight into our day. Most of these folks are quite simple-minded, adhere to Church authority, go to mass every Sunday but are not terribly devout at their heart. However a small percentage would see themselves as tools of God, volunteer for Inquisition and other dirty, but "necessary" work. Now place those people into modern society, give them access to weapons and technology - and you have an imminent disaster.

That is because the gap in culture and perception of the world is too great. Our modern lifestyle would seem like Sodom and Gomorrah to them and they would feel like the last moral society in the world. Most would feel threatened by what is considered normal in our modern mind and they would not want to embrace it at all. And yet… these are our own ancestors - our current culture has originated from them.

This is the current reality for most of the muslim world. Modern ideas that we take for granted, like universal human rights, women suffrage, separation of church from the state, representative democracy, abolishment of polygamy, sexual liberation- most Islamic countries do not have even a single one of those implemented. Less than 10% of muslim population accept the theory of evolution. The reformation movement that happened in Christianity and jumpstarted social progress, has yet to happen in Islam ("Arab spring" might be an early sign of it however).

No wonder that some of the zealous devotees see ISIL (the Islamic state) as promised land and join the fight against "evil" western civilization.

Our response? Let's f***ing bomb them. They are sub-human anyway (infected by"radicalism" mind virus). Nevermind that instead of Hamas we had Al-Qaeda, and instead of Al-Qaeda we now have ISIL, and instead of ISIL we will have whatever name comes next.