Temperance and Apathy

[Trifoilum]

I've been thinking about the moderate crowd, people taking neither side often calling themselves rational and detached.

...There are times when (in one's biased perspective) those people looked more....passive than rational. More ignorant than detached.
More letting things happen than trying to see both sides.

But at the same time I -know- that not only my perspective are biased, but also that there are virtues in self control; in being open to different arguments and in controlling one's words, behavior, and action in public. I'm trying to do that as well.

So...
What separates temperance from apathy?
And what are their similarities?

How to exercise self-control while still...care?

 

[Lingo]

Hi Trifoilum!
Here are my thoughts on temperance and apathy from mom's perspective:
Child climbs a tree. Apathy - mom doesn't care that child can fall, she may not even care that she has a child. Temperance - mom let the child learn lesson even if it falls from a tree.
Watching from aside, both mom's reaction is same but second mom is aware and lets go of her fears.
So practise letting go all of your fears and judgment.
Good luck!

 

[Skarekrow]

I've been thinking about the moderate crowd, people taking neither side often calling themselves rational and detached.

...There are times when (in one's biased perspective) those people looked more....passive than rational. More ignorant than detached.
More letting things happen than trying to see both sides.

But at the same time I -know- that not only my perspective are biased, but also that there are virtues in self control; in being open to different arguments and in controlling one's words, behavior, and action in public. I'm trying to do that as well.

So...
What separates temperance from apathy?
And what are their similarities?

How to exercise self-control while still...care?

I admit I can get heated about certain things (though I am working on that too), and the apathy that is rampant around the world but especially within the US is beginning to die out IMO.
Not being a gererationalist…because I always get accused of blaming this group or that…I truly believe that as the Baby Boomers age and begin to lose office to younger voices that there will be some serious change.
My Son is going to face many difficulties and we have discussed some of them, but he is 12 so I limit what I say, but I see a change in the overall thinking…those who are in college now, or just graduated, or are just about to graduate HS have been some of the most open-minded children to come along so far as I can see.
But then again, I live in a region that is more progressive than some.

There is no wrong way to care…the fact that you even care is nice to hear.
My own Dad was very conservative, Republican, and I respected his opinion though we differed on certain subjects.
My Dad cared a lot too…which is something that some in the liberal crowd often accuse conservatives of not doing.

We all just do our best with the hands we are dealt…for some people it is easier for them not to care, to let themselves be apathetic towards something or someone, and it’s our responsibility if we want to try and change that attitude to firstly not judge them harshly that they are that way - IRL circumstances influence so much. But you just keep on trying secondly…even when people say - Why bother?
Set the example.

I’m human and I get overly passionate about things sometimes I know…but I would rather be that way, than to give in to apathy.
I will never stop caring about issues I find important…sometimes I feel like Sisyphus…and sometimes I purposefully stay away from things….IDK, but it’s definitely an INFJ thing.

 

[Trifoilum]

Watching from aside, both mom's reaction is same but second mom is aware and lets go of her fears.
So practise letting go all of your fears and judgment.
Good luck!

Fears and judgment, hmm. And I guess also attachment?

I admit I can get heated about certain things (though I am working on that too), and the apathy that is rampant around the world but especially within the US is beginning to die out IMO.
Not being a gererationalist…because I always get accused of blaming this group or that…I truly believe that as the Baby Boomers age and begin to lose office to younger voices that there will be some serious change.

That sounds hard. As someone who participates in internet debate for a while, I have been exposed to the 'why do you always make everything a problem?' statement.
And yes, 'blaming the world (but not yourself)' kind of accusation.
I would imagine things to be the same, if not worse, for you. How are you faring?
And yes, there will be some serious change, for better of worse.

My Son is going to face many difficulties and we have discussed some of them, but he is 12 so I limit what I say, but I see a change in the overall thinking…those who are in college now, or just graduated, or are just about to graduate HS have been some of the most open-minded children to come along so far as I can see.
But then again, I live in a region that is more progressive than some.

Glad to hear that, and I do wish your son the best.
It seems that as much as youths these days are

What are the difficulties you have discussed, if I may ask?

There is no wrong way to care…the fact that you even care is nice to hear.
My own Dad was very conservative, Republican, and I respected his opinion though we differed on certain subjects.
My Dad cared a lot too…which is something that some in the liberal crowd often accuse conservatives of not doing.

We all just do our best with the hands we are dealt…for some people it is easier for them not to care, to let themselves be apathetic towards something or someone, and it’s our responsibility if we want to try and change that attitude to firstly not judge them harshly that they are that way - IRL circumstances influence so much. But you just keep on trying secondly…even when people say - Why bother?
Set the example.

This is definitely something I need to learn and remember again.
INdeed, for some people it's easier to not care-- and at the same time they must have their own reasons.
They cannot exactly be blamed to not care-- or to refrain from judging.

Personally, what I'm still somewhat upset about is me being judged from caring.
Or when an action or a statement is somehow deemed or judged as violent or extremist-- just because it falls solely on one side of a particular debate.

I’m human and I get overly passionate about things sometimes I know…but I would rather be that way, than to give in to apathy.
I will never stop caring about issues I find important…sometimes I feel like Sisyphus…and sometimes I purposefully stay away from things….IDK, but it’s definitely an INFJ thing.

Hahahahha yeah, seems like it's an INFJ thing. :|

 

[Lingo]

Fears and judgment, hmm. And I guess also attachment?
:|

Hmmm...I would say no. Attachment may be exactly word that separates two. You let things happen without interference - and find something positive even if negative outcome happens. Child needs to learn climbing tree, may fall and get hurt but there is lesson to be learnt - either he climbs the top of the tree or falls on the ground.

There is a fine line there how much you let things happen without interference - try to stretch it little by little. Pick and choose wisely.
Situations in which you are emotionally involved would bring more interference but try to stop for a moment and think what would happen if you just let it go. Find something positive in it. It is not apathy - you are aware of situation and let it happen. Sometimes what we see as negative can turn to be positive and the other way around.

 

[Lingo]

“Before you can live a part of you has to die. You have to let go of what could have been, how you should have acted and what you wish you would have said differently. You have to accept that you can’t change the past experiences, opinions of others at that moment in time or outcomes from their choices or yours. When you finally recognize that truth then you will understand the true meaning of forgiveness of yourself and others. From this point you will finally be free.”
― Shannon L. Alder

 

[Skarekrow]

Fears and judgment, hmm. And I guess also attachment?


That sounds hard. As someone who participates in internet debate for a while, I have been exposed to the 'why do you always make everything a problem?' statement.
And yes, 'blaming the world (but not yourself)' kind of accusation.
I would imagine things to be the same, if not worse, for you. How are you faring?
And yes, there will be some serious change, for better of worse.


Glad to hear that, and I do wish your son the best.
It seems that as much as youths these days are

What are the difficulties you have discussed, if I may ask?


This is definitely something I need to learn and remember again.
INdeed, for some people it's easier to not care-- and at the same time they must have their own reasons.
They cannot exactly be blamed to not care-- or to refrain from judging.

Personally, what I'm still somewhat upset about is me being judged from caring.
Or when an action or a statement is somehow deemed or judged as violent or extremist-- just because it falls solely on one side of a particular debate.

Hahahahha yeah, seems like it's an INFJ thing. :|

Oh, I do alright.
I get discouraged by the sheer amount of apathy in the world…it makes me sad that being self-centered is almost a virtue in our society now (i.e. K. Kardashian and hubby).
But such dramatic swings in one direction always have a rebound effect working in an opposite manner.
I DO think that more and more people are starting to see the rat race for what it is…that material things can never make one truly happy.

As far as my Son goes…I have discussed just small amounts of politics…sometimes it is necessary when something comes on the news or he happens to hear something and ask about it. He was actually born in Russia (I’ve raised him since he was 1 and a half), so we have discussed some of the politics going on there, the war in Ukraine, etc. He actually has to avoid visiting when he turns 17…they have conscripted military service and it isn’t unheard of for them to snatch up some kid like him who never grew up there and force him into military service.
His Mom has a rather different view and way of interaction with him and anyone in general…for instance if you go into a shop in Russia (been 3 times) they don’t say “Hello, how are you!?” They don’t even look up until you are ready to purchase and certainly don’t smile…in fact if you smile at someone in public, they look at you like you are insane most of the time..hahaha.
So generally he comes to me with questions about how he’s doing emotionally…she’s not the warmest person though I don’t doubt her sincere love for him.
It’s an interesting dynamic.

You just have to shrug off those who wish to detract from you giving a shit.
If they judge you negatively because of it, then it is their own cynical choice to do so.
Keep bringing love and light and always say what feels right in your own heart - even if it puts someone in opposition to you.
Otherwise you aren’t living authentically IMO.

 

[CogentPursuit]

My experiences have given these same words and definitions different meanings due to the different context these experiences have provided.

I have spoken and met with truly apathetic people and I found myself sympathetic to their suffering. Such apathy is devoid of meaning and life and happiness. It is an empty pit like depression.

No I think what you refer to apathy is what I see as misplaced or misapplied passion. Passion for selfish desires instead of compassion that is directed outwardly toward others. Passion to talk instead of act or passion to argue instead of find solutions.

I think proper temperament comes from really and fully knowing and accepting what is really important. To look past small infractions and burdens to the ego and to really dig in and see what is important not just here and now but overall.

 

[Skarekrow]

My experiences have given these same words and definitions different meanings due to the different context these experiences have provided.

I have spoken and met with truly apathetic people and I found myself sympathetic to their suffering. Such apathy is devoid of meaning and life and happiness. It is an empty pit like depression.

No I think what you refer to apathy is what I see as misplaced or misapplied passion. Passion for selfish desires instead of compassion that is directed outwardly toward others. Passion to talk instead of act or passion to argue instead of find solutions.

I think proper temperament comes from really and fully knowing and accepting what is really important. To look past small infractions and burdens to the ego and to really dig in and see what is important not just here and now but overall.

Perhaps cynicism is a better word?
I do think that “apathy” does still apply in our society, because it’s almost shoved in our face. People feel powerless, which in turn can make them feel cynical, which in turn can make one apathetic.
For instance, personally I think the voting process here in the US is a rigged joke - and some people see that, even if they don’t acknowledge it consciously, it still effects them emotionally overall.
I mean, we have a very sad record of people NOT voting…and it gets dismissed as people not caring, but I disagree, I think people DO care but they see that our elected officials don’t side with the will of the people - they side with their biggest donors…so some give up.
I can’t say that I blame them…it will literally take either an act of congress, or the supreme court, or if neither of those is trustworthy (which is debatable), then we can have majority states votes to repeal “Citizen’s United” and get all this dirty money out of government.
But, it seems like a near impossible task…it would be a major thing to get the money out of politics.
And the fears that keep people from really standing up for themselves and making this nation and world a better place is constantly jammed into our heads by the media, etc. All the major news organizations do it….it’s all fear-mongering.