Tension between Ni and Fe - my view

[Jana]

It is my view, feel free to tell me I am wrong or right. I am just at specific, overanalyzing point of my life
First two functions are always E - I. I think that Ni and Fe are very I and very E, so their work can make us rather messy from time to time. Because, Ni is mostly oriented in our inner world. It is very abstract and usually plays with untouchable matters. Anybody with Ni as first function can say how one can lost in it. I can be totally unaware of outer world when I am Ni-mod. On the other side, Fe is all about others and people are the most concrete "objects" in outer world. Fe can force us to lose in others.
How it is with me, I wonder do some of you feel same?
So, my Ni makes me rather closed. I need to make sense from myself, I want to explain myself what I feel or do. I need to interprate almost everything I see or experience. One of my worst fears is losing privacy or losing my own space. As regular book INFJ I don't have many close friends, but I have rather wide circle of people I know.y
On the other side, my Fe forces me to be nice to people. usually most people, I feel good when I make someone to feel good. But, I feel worn out after being in Fe mod for long time. Mostly when I say too much from my inner world (feeling, fears etc.).
Here is the thing - being open to people is way of making connection, but actually I usually feel bad when I say something private about myself.
And it confuses me. I usually need time to make friends with someone, but sometimes, very rare, I meet new person and, without much knowledge about that person, I just go for them. Very deeply. It is not like usual me, but it feels good. And in case like that I could be totally open and I don't feel bad.

 

[Jana]

I wanted to say that I sometimes feel torn between my need to have my space and my need to be conncet with people.

 

[Trifoilum]

Anybody with Ni as first function can say how one can lost in it. I can be totally unaware of outer world when I am Ni-mod. On the other side, Fe is all about others and people are the most concrete "objects" in outer world. Fe can force us to lose in others.

Yeah, overrelying on one function -can- make one lost. Especially between the first and second function, IMO; they are often the two strongest function within ourselves, one to deal with our inner life, the other our outer life. It happens in every MBTI type. So losing balance, one could internalize too much, or externalize too much, depending on which function they are over-depending on.

The same principle works within tertiary life; only worse (it's 2 function against one.)

So, my Ni makes me rather closed. I need to make sense from myself, I want to explain myself what I feel or do. I need to interprate almost everything I see or experience. One of my worst fears is losing privacy or losing my own space. As regular book INFJ I don't have many close friends, but I have rather wide circle of people I know.y
On the other side, my Fe forces me to be nice to people. usually most people, I feel good when I make someone to feel good. But, I feel worn out after being in Fe mod for long time. Mostly when I say too much from my inner world (feeling, fears etc.).

+1.
When Ni's overtly in control, I become overtly concerned with myself and particularly, my freedom. I become very quick to assuming, and very quick to dismissing other information I found disagreeable. (and I happen to ...pair Ni with Fi, so..)
When Fe's overtly in control, I become overtly complaining. And I become too whiny about things; things that don't follow what's supposed to be, things that are bad (and I happen to pair Fe with Si)

I wanted to say that I sometimes feel torn between my need to have my space and my need to be conncet with people.

Yep, been there, done that. I guess the key is balance, and quick awareness; if one happens to do something wrong (separating yourself when you're supposed to mingle with people, and vice versa) better be very aware and change it before it affects the mind.

 

[Arsal]

Ni and Fe don't have a suppressive relationship. You can actually use both at the same time.

What you are describing is perhaps Ni and Ti in tandem. Ni, when working alone, is complete unconscious. It doesn't make you think, it's when your mind simply goes "blank". Ti, on the other hand, is concerned with analyzing, interpreting, organizing external stimulus and it has a suppressive relationship with Fe.

Mostly when I say too much from my inner world (feeling, fears etc.).
Here is the thing - being open to people is way of making connection, but actually I usually feel bad when I say something private about myself.
And it confuses me. I usually need time to make friends with someone, but sometimes, very rare, I meet new person and, without much knowledge about that person, I just go for them. Very deeply. It is not like usual me, but it feels good. And in case like that I could be totally open and I don't feel bad.

I feel like you just described my entire life.

I used to be very open about myself. Then I realized, every time I told something private, it made me feel bad. I think it might have something to do with not getting the reaction I expect when revealing my private life. When I'm sharing something intensely private with a close friend, I feel like they should react a certain way, and when they don't, it makes me feel bad. Possibly why sharing with strangers isn't very difficult because there are no preemptive expectations attached to the person.

There was a time when I believed the way to good friendship was to pour your real, ugly self to others. Unfortunately, this never ended well. Even though I bonded with the persons in question, I just felt I had revealed too much and felt strangely vulnerable in front of them.

Now I find the easiest way is to avoid sharing or discussing anything personal. I lie a lot about my private life, and it keeps me sane. I wouldn't recommend it, but it's one way of getting there.

 

[Janski]

Now I find the easiest way is to avoid sharing or discussing anything personal. I lie a lot about my private life, and it keeps me sane. I wouldn't recommend it, but it's one way of getting there.

This will (probably) slowly eat away at you, because you know you really do want to share andconnect deeply with people; that's why you tried all those times before.
Don't let yourself be conditioned into predicting the future (because you can't - you really can't) about people's reactions. The only reaction you can predict and indeed, control, is your own. It took me years to learn, but if you can control yourself to the point that you realise it doesn't matter what other people think, only that you are happy, authentic, calm, then you will be able to share all of yourself without regard to ego consequences; you'll realise the immunity that comes with complete vulnerability.

Sorry. Off topic!
I find meditation a great way to balance myself, as my Fe turns me into a crazy people pleaser and attention seeker sometimes; I'll basically dig into someone's nueroses and help (whether they asked for it or not) them so I feel better about myself. It gives me time to focus back inside and let Ni "play" and figure out the mess of information that has been taken in for the day.
The moments of "nothing" are simply delicious.

 

[Jana]

Sorry. Off topic!
I find meditation a great way to balance myself, as my Fe turns me into a crazy people pleaser and attention seeker sometimes; I'll basically dig into someone's nueroses and help (whether they asked for it or not) them so I feel better about myself. It gives me time to focus back inside and let Ni "play" and figure out the mess of information that has been taken in for the day.
The moments of "nothing" are simply delicious.

Same with me. I am catholic and I realised that my connection to God is source of balance for my connection to myself and to others. When I manage to feel that connection

 

[Jana]

Ni and Fe don't have a suppressive relationship. You can actually use both at the same time.

What you are describing is perhaps Ni and Ti in tandem. Ni, when working alone, is complete unconscious. It doesn't make you think, it's when your mind simply goes "blank". Ti, on the other hand, is concerned with analyzing, interpreting, organizing external stimulus and it has a suppressive relationship with Fe.

I know that,but I still think that they sometimes can go in totally different direction.

That Ti part is interesting. Although some texts says that third function become stronger later in life (if I remember in second half of 20s), I think that I developed it earlier. Very simle reason: two teachers (one from high school - INTJ and other from colleague - INTP) made big, I mean really big, influence at me, so I start to use more Ti earlier...Hm, do I make any sense???

 

[Arsal]

That Ti part is interesting. Although some texts says that third function become stronger later in life (if I remember in second half of 20s), I think that I developed it earlier. Very simle reason: two teachers (one from high school - INTJ and other from colleague - INTP) made big, I mean really big, influence at me, so I start to use more Ti earlier...Hm, do I make any sense???

You are making complete sense.

It's common for people to develop functions earlier. Though, tertiary function develops well by the time one reaches adulthood. It's inferior that develops later, during ones mid-twenties or so.

I developed Ti sometime during my mid-teens, thanks to social anxiety and living as a hermit for extended periods of time.

 

[Jana]

I developed Ti sometime during my mid-teens, thanks to social anxiety and living as a hermit for extended periods of time.

Well social anxiety is rather strange thing to experience...I can say that...I ve been ther and done that.

 

[Janski]

I don't know how to reply to the reputation comment thingies, but I find the most interesting thing you mentioned, Arsal, is that you would feel bad after sharing something deep.
Now, this is very hard to grasp sometimes, but the only reason you feel bad is because of you. Next time something like this happens, stop yourself, observe. Ask yourself WHY you are feeling bad. Is it because of the person in front of you? Maybe. Sure, that's part of it.
But, if you look closely, you feel bad because you wanted, expected, a certain outcome, but it didn't happen. This is subtle ego rising to the surface, and it's pain in the arse

Unfortunately, I have found the best way to get past these kinds of blocks IS to just lay it all out there, in a bumbling mess of your unique self, like you had intuitively already realised; the deepest connections happen when you bear yourself fully, and by doing so, you give the other permission to do the same.
Those moments are bloody magic.
And if the other does not take that oppurtunity, does not yet have the courage, then take heart in the fact that you might have given them just a taste of authenticity, at the very least, exposure to it.

I'm reminded of a quote by Nelson Mandella;
“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.”

 

[jn56uytrx]

It is my view, feel free to tell me I am wrong or right. I am just at specific, overanalyzing point of my life
First two functions are always E - I. I think that Ni and Fe are very I and very E, so their work can make us rather messy from time to time. Because, Ni is mostly oriented in our inner world. It is very abstract and usually plays with untouchable matters. Anybody with Ni as first function can say how one can lost in it. I can be totally unaware of outer world when I am Ni-mod. On the other side, Fe is all about others and people are the most concrete "objects" in outer world. Fe can force us to lose in others.
How it is with me, I wonder do some of you feel same?
So, my Ni makes me rather closed. I need to make sense from myself, I want to explain myself what I feel or do. I need to interprate almost everything I see or experience. One of my worst fears is losing privacy or losing my own space. As regular book INFJ I don't have many close friends, but I have rather wide circle of people I know.y
On the other side, my Fe forces me to be nice to people. usually most people, I feel good when I make someone to feel good. But, I feel worn out after being in Fe mod for long time. Mostly when I say too much from my inner world (feeling, fears etc.).
Here is the thing - being open to people is way of making connection, but actually I usually feel bad when I say something private about myself.
And it confuses me. I usually need time to make friends with someone, but sometimes, very rare, I meet new person and, without much knowledge about that person, I just go for them. Very deeply. It is not like usual me, but it feels good. And in case like that I could be totally open and I don't feel bad.

I have a lot of resonance with this interplay. I can't assign it function expression with any confidence, but your Ni/Fe assessment sounds fair.

I have a tendency to immerse deeply into the experience of other people. I receive them deeply into my presence and give them back deeply from my presence. It is a process very receptive to the signals I'm being given and everything I have becomes focused on being present in a way that I sense will further my reception into that connection. I can remember being in random social environments where I've gotten into conversation with someone and lost a sense of awareness of pretty much everything else. Everything becomes centered on receiving what this person is sharing of themselves and inviting them to continue to go deeper and deeper into that connection. Part of that process is sharing equally of myself in return. I tend to go as deeply into those connections as I sense my partner in engagement is willing to go. Usually it takes a very long stretch of time in this sort of engagement for me to feel depleted during it. More commonly, the social situation demands a breaking of the connection. It's only once I've been pulled out of the engagement that I sort of exit the trance and feel uncomfortable with the vulnerability and drained of energy.

Typically after a social engagement like this, it takes me a long time to regain my psychological balance. Part of that, I'm sure, is social anxiety and I'm re-hashing and over-analyzing in my head everything that was shared in the almost meditative connection with another. When I enter that space with another person, I'm responsive and inviting and it unfolds naturally. Yet, in the aftermath, typical social interaction rules surround me and I know that what I shared with that person doesn't follow normal social rules. It wasn't small. I feel uncomfortable reviewing what happened in that more typical context and I feel fear about what I revealed of self and the ways in which that makes me vulnerable.

I can go into this same sort of deep immersion over a far longer period of engagement when I'm immersing in a topic I want to learn more about. During the initial immersion, the leaders in that topic are granted full honor of expertise on the topic. I invite in whatever information they can give me about the topic. Yet it does not rest within me without analysis. In the background, I am poking at inconsistencies and processing contradictions. As the length of my engagement with the topic goes on, the external questioning becomes a bit more challenging as I try to get at specific information I need to fill in holes in my understanding of the perspective. My assumption is still primarily that anything that doesn't make sense is because I just haven't gathered enough information, but as the engagement goes on I inevitably get closer to what is always my end result of a process like this. I withdraw and synthesize what I gathered into my own uniquely constructed perspective. Only after I withdraw and go through this process of synthesis and independent construction can I then return comfortably. My prior engagement was one of submissive information-gathering, but my return engagement will be one of independent co-existence. This process may cycle over and over again as I recognize anew the need for fresh perceptual construction. So, submissive immersion, withdrawal, and then independent/reserved re-engagement.

Perhaps my deep engagements and then frequent withdrawals do have a lot to do with an Ni/Fe interplay. Not two independent functional engagements at separate times, but both of them interacting simultaneously at different times. When I engage deeply Ni is information-gathering about the fuller experience of life outside me, and Fe is the vehicle through which I understand and engage with that fuller experience of life. When I withdraw, Fe is the vehicle for my social anxiety and Ni is screaming for space in which to process. Perhaps Ti comes into play during those longer engagements as my investigator that is categorizing and searching out inconsistencies and contradictions.

I think I have so few really close friends in life because this intense connection and then need to withdraw doesn't fit well with the typical social script. Whether I just limit my friendships by telling myself I don't deserve my friends if I can't behave like normal folk and then remove myself from engagement, or if I am limited in friendship by the choices of others who say, "she's not normal folk and I'm not interested in maintaining relationship", I'm not really sure yet.