Thoughts about the ego-identity

[TinyBubbles]

Reflections about the ego. Feel free to read if you like.


1. I am living in a delusionary self-centered world
2. Reality is not about me, but rather a reaction to me.
3. I have total freedom of choice outside the bounds of ego
4. Ego generates all fear, all hope, all disappointment, all regret, all anger, all drive, all passion, all shame. It also likely generates possibilities which wouldn't have existed before.
5. Others are living in their own self-centric world too. Subjective reality means subjective expression, always.
6. I'm a part of their world, as I interact with them. They mine.
7. I am perceiving reality all the time, too. I can choose to react (direct experience | immediate free will) or resist making a choice (ego | desire for future free will/control/choice).
8. In fact, there is an energy flow through me, through everyone. Ego is a kind of non-chosen self defense system, designed to preserve the body.
9. The next moment is as unknown as the afterlife.
10. All fear is self generated. A product of the ego, which is a elaborate psychological construct formed from early childhood. Possible genetic origins.
11. Sensitivity to pain is entirely fear generated
12. Selfishness is a natural consequence of having an ego
13. Everyone has an ego.
14. The greater the ego, the greater the resistance to a truly changing reality.
15. Resistance is pain. But lack of resistance feels unhuman.
16. Without an ego, there is no resistance to cooperate, to genuine unconditional compassion. Whether this is a good thing or not is also a judgment bred of the ego, and its desire to preserve the body. The ego-less individual has no resistance and therefore would easily slip into self sacrifice in favor of another's immediate free will/ego.
17. The above might also be ego.
18. Without ego, there is no predicting the future, and that is perceived by the ego-attached mind as a loss of control. The reality is that anything can happen anyway; control through prediction is a comfortable illusion.

What is the ego?
- Your sense of time. Your sense of past and future. Your predictions of the future. Your interpretation of the past. Your interpretation of the present. Ego is a thought. Ego is a feeling. It is you all the time whenever you are not simply existing, simply perceiving. Life in general is very simple. It is lived moment by moment. Ego gives us the false perception that there is anything outside of right now.

- Without ego, there is no resistance to every sensory input. There is no past-conditioned bias. Life without ego is life without contemplation, without hope. It is pure experience, and moment-by-moment choice.

- The frontal cortex is probably the cause of one's elaborate ego-defense system. The primal part of the brain generates a desire to physically survive, and it is likely genetically inherited. Due to the fact that millions of years of evolution have formed the part of the brain that is able to think, to predict likely consequences, the ego has added to its own interpretations above this basic desire to live. My guess is so it can broaden its range of free will to outside the immediate moment, which in reality probably cannot happen.

- Why we have inherited a desire for self preservation is unknown. It may be to survive long enough to pass on our genes, but since we will at some point be destroyed the ultimate goal is still unknown. There seems to be an in-built failsafe against self destruction

- Ego can make one crazy. Suicide is probably the result of an extreme resistance to reality, a consequence of years of accumulated and progressively confirmed biases, which become so solidified that they override the core desire which is to physically survive (apparently also a cognitive bias)

- Something interesting: one's ego tends to strengthen over time, rather than weaken. Every new input, and that is everything since it is impossible to step in the same river twice, is interpreted by the ego to be similar to something experienced before. It's an internal checking system. Reality is truly ever changing, but experience is through one's ego and therefore everything could be perceived as related to something prior.

- The ego is the part of you that judges good or bad, right or wrong, true or false, which theorizes, remembers, hopes, fears. The ego-less individual has zero judgment outside of an immediate act or don't act, since he is not internally checking reality against what he believes he has known in the past or assumes about the future. This gives the individual total freedom of action in the moment. Without an ego you are extremely perceptive and immediately recognize choice. It is primal. With an ego, you broaden your sphere of perceived opportunity to outside the Now, and choose based on assumptions about a changing future/remembered past. It is entirely possible that your predictions are accurate and will result in the desired outcome, which is to control and benefit from a future event. It is entirely possible that they won't.

- The mind is constantly being re-wired too, as a result of every thought, every feeling, every experience. New input will be linked to old and generate a feeling of "known" and "safe"

- There is no way to confirm consciousness exists outside the body, and indeed no way to confirm objective reality, since everything is filtered through our senses. Our senses by default pick up everything in the immediate environment, but the mind only interprets (consciously perceives) that physical data which has some relation to previously (likely unconsciously decided) meaningful data. This happens whenever one steps away from the realm of experience and into the realm of thought. It might also happen regardless, if subconscious reality exists (dreams suggest it does).

- Thought gives the impression, the sensation, that there is a You or I, that there is a Me, and Them. In reality it is one psyche absorbing the world, and one psyche expressing its interpretations of it. If others exist, and I believe they do due to their physical similarity to me, then they are outside of this sphere of individual experience. It may in fact be the case that there is no reality outside of you, and since the ego can be annihilated, no real reason why you cannot experience everything without any fear. The one main fear of death however, upon which all others are apparently constructed, might resist this ultimate cognitive shift.

 

[Faye]

There is a lot here, but I want to come back to it later and talk about it.

 

[Kgal]

Training One's Ego

I'm currently in the process of watching the extended/randomly generated movie called "What The Bleep - Down The Rabbit Hole".
Have you seen it?

Your post is a great discourse on the Ego and I agree with everything you've said.

The one main fear of death however, upon which all others are apparently constructed, might resist this ultimate cognitive shift.

This I have found to be very true. My Ego has resisted my efforts to 'diminish' it's powerful hold upon me. For example: When I began reading about and attempting to do Insight Meditation (Vipassana) I became confused and depressed for I thought by doing it I would be eliminating my Ego. It wasn't until I began reading/listening to Jack Kornfield's works that I began to understand.

Jack said to treat one's Ego like a puppy you are training. When you tell your puppy to "Sit" - you show him how to do it with kindness. Then you repeat the command. One doesn't expect the puppy to perform the behavior right away - right? And any normal person wouldn't act harshly with the puppy just because it didn't "Sit" the first few times either. No - one would gently push the puppy's butt down to the floor in a sitting position and say "Sit". Over and over again, you repeat the training with kindness until the puppy finally gets the message.

He says this is the attitude that works best for disengaging the power of the Ego and changing it accept the reality of one's life as it is now. You approach your Ego with compassion and kindness. No judgment. No force of will. No beating it up for making one's life miserable. (Which the Ego generally does - if you watch for it.)

To me this is incredibly difficult to do because my Ego has all of those old harsh, judgmental voices in my head from training I received when I was a child. How else am I going to filter my experiences - if not through the old ways of thinking? It's almost like a Moebius strip. Thankfully, practicing mindfulness and meditating and going on retreats have given me a way to see my Ego in a loving way. Don't get me wrong - I have miles and miles and miles to go on my journey of learning to be wholly present in the now - at any given moment. But - at least now I can recognize what my Ego is trying to do before I get all caught up in it.

Hopefully one day I'll be able to dance with my Ego and I'll be doing the leading - not the following.

Thank you for posting this April. You have a very succinct way of describing the Ego.

Oh - I had one more thought on this.... imo the Ego is necessary for one to survive on this planet. So I do not discount it - not one bit.

 

[Wyote]

When you truly love something, you can let it go ^_^

*cheesy*

 

[Stu]

Reflections about the ego. Feel free to read if you like.



..............What is the ego?
- Your sense of time. Your sense of past and future. Your predictions of the future. Your interpretation of the past. Your interpretation of the present. Ego is a thought. Ego is a feeling. It is you all the time whenever you are not simply existing, simply perceiving. Life in general is very simple. It is lived moment by moment. Ego gives us the false perception that there is anything outside of right now.

..............

Your ego is the main center for these things, but we all have a variety of splinter egos that are also capable of these functions to varying degrees.

Putting these splinters into perspective indelibly alters ego functionality.

 

[Faye]

Reflections about the ego. Feel free to read if you like.


1. I am living in a delusionary self-centered world
2. Reality is not about me, but rather a reaction to me.
3. I have total freedom of choice outside the bounds of ego
4. Ego generates all fear, all hope, all disappointment, all regret, all anger, all drive, all passion, all shame. It also likely generates possibilities which wouldn't have existed before.
5. Others are living in their own self-centric world too. Subjective reality means subjective expression, always.
6. I'm a part of their world, as I interact with them. They mine.
7. I am perceiving reality all the time, too. I can choose to react (direct experience | immediate free will) or resist making a choice (ego | desire for future free will/control/choice).
8. In fact, there is an energy flow through me, through everyone. Ego is a kind of non-chosen self defense system, designed to preserve the body.
9. The next moment is as unknown as the afterlife.
10. All fear is self generated. A product of the ego, which is a elaborate psychological construct formed from early childhood. Possible genetic origins.
11. Sensitivity to pain is entirely fear generated
12. Selfishness is a natural consequence of having an ego
13. Everyone has an ego.
14. The greater the ego, the greater the resistance to a truly changing reality.
15. Resistance is pain. But lack of resistance feels unhuman.
16. Without an ego, there is no resistance to cooperate, to genuine unconditional compassion. Whether this is a good thing or not is also a judgment bred of the ego, and its desire to preserve the body. The ego-less individual has no resistance and therefore would easily slip into self sacrifice in favor of another's immediate free will/ego.
17. The above might also be ego.
18. Without ego, there is no predicting the future, and that is perceived by the ego-attached mind as a loss of control. The reality is that anything can happen anyway; control through prediction is a comfortable illusion.

3. Outside of ego, what motivation would you have for making a choice in the first place?
7. Resisting making a choice is making a choice.
9. I disagree. We can have a far more justified belief in the next moment than the afterlife because we know that the next moment is possible, but we don't know if the afterlife is possible.
11. Entirely? So would fear be the sensitivity to pain itself?
12. What do you mean by selfishness?
13. What about buddha?
14. IDK.
15.

- Ego can make one crazy. Suicide is probably the result of an extreme resistance to reality, a consequence of years of accumulated and progressively confirmed biases, which become so solidified that they override the core desire which is to physically survive (apparently also a cognitive bias)

- Thought gives the impression, the sensation, that there is a You or I, that there is a Me, and Them. In reality it is one psyche absorbing the world, and one psyche expressing its interpretations of it. If others exist, and I believe they do due to their physical similarity to me, then they are outside of this sphere of individual experience. It may in fact be the case that there is no reality outside of you, and since the ego can be annihilated, no real reason why you cannot experience everything without any fear. The one main fear of death however, upon which all others are apparently constructed, might resist this ultimate cognitive shift.

Why would suicide be the result of extreme resistance to reality? This is presupposing reality is something which would dissuade a person from suicide. Studies have shown that depressed persons have more realistic perceptions compared to not depressed persons, and this make sense. Depending on the situation, there is no reason to believe it will all get better.

The fear of death is no small matter.

 

[bagelriffic]

When you truly love something, you can let it go ^_^

i am currently involved in a practice that emphasizes awareness and the search for the truth. dissolving the personality is described almost as more of a secondary reaction to that search, and i think thats an important note to make. a common mistake i had upon first starting out on this expedition into myself was that i wanted to dissolve or get rid of the ego because i saw it as the inherent source of all my problems. DA states just as wyote suggested that only through love; which is synonymous with inquiry or the want to find the truth of any given situation (thus the reason when we love someone or something, we want to know more about them in their entirety), can we understand and accept any conflict.

so i don't see the ego as such a bad thing, in theory it created itself to mirror the essential aspects of Being that we are all born with and inhabit before we created it. this is why DA uses the enneagram, to help us understand Why our personality developed in the way that it did, which is to essentially mirror that which was lost. the problem is that awareness or Being, uses love and understanding to take the wind out of these conflicts sails so to speak, whereas the personality uses hatred.

i'm not trying to say that hatred is a terrible thing or that anyone who feels it should be chastised or shunned, if anything i would just suggest that its not the best tool for getting rid of self conflicts. hatred could be described as the need or want to reject or disown, get rid of something, whether that be something in ourselves, or something in our environment. the problem is that we can't readily rid ourselves from our inner problems by simply hating them, even when we manipulate our own feelings, it doesn't change or get rid of them, it merely obscures or deflects them momentarily. so you can see why the common stance towards the ego may be one of hatred or rejection, its how the personality attempts to rid itself of unwelcome experiences. but ultimately it is through insight and acceptance (not so much resigned acceptance, but more of a "whatever is, is, acceptance), that we begin to understand and sympathize with our ego and eventually live without one as misconceptions and biases are brought to awareness through the openness true acceptance creates.

in the grander scheme of things, i think for a long time now the idea of living or experiencing reality beyond the personality is not a new concept. even beyond conscious altering drugs, middle eastern/eastern practices such as buddhism, sufism, platonism, all have similar connected principles that contribute to DA. i just think that through the help of modern science we as a species are beginning to fine tune the technique of experiencing reality in a more fundamental way. and i'm not suggesting that one way is better than the other, i just think that it'd be beneficial if people knew they had a choice between the two.

 

[Wyote]

Yes, acceptance. Acceptance is the pathway to enlightenment, as many yogis would say.

 

[DrShephard]

3. Outside of ego, what motivation would you have for making a choice in the first place?
7. Resisting making a choice is making a choice.
9. I disagree. We can have a far more justified belief in the next moment than the afterlife because we know that the next moment is possible, but we don't know if the afterlife is possible.
11. Entirely? So would fear be the sensitivity to pain itself?
12. What do you mean by selfishness?
13. What about buddha?
14. IDK.

7. If a policeman punches your arm and your ego isn't involved, you say "Ow!". If it is involved, you stop and think "That hurt, but he's in a position of authority. Should I say ouch? Should I just stay silent? What would be best for me? What do I really want to do? Why can't I think of the right thing to do? I need to act correctly in this situation."

13. The buddha had an ego. He wasn't a god, but just a normal person who had experienced enlightenment. He simply saw the ego for what it was. He saw the true nature of reality as tathata.

 

[Faye]

7. If a policeman punches your arm and your ego isn't involved, you say "Ow!". If it is involved, you stop and think "That hurt, but he's in a position of authority. Should I say ouch? Should I just stay silent? What would be best for me? What do I really want to do? Why can't I think of the right thing to do? I need to act correctly in this situation."

13. The buddha had an ego. He wasn't a god, but just a normal person who had experienced enlightenment. He simply saw the ego for what it was. He saw the true nature of reality as tathata.

7. Exactly. Making a decision.

13. He had one originally, but he dissolved it. Of course, this all hinges on the definition of ego.

 

[TinyBubbles]

I'm currently in the process of watching the extended/randomly generated movie called "What The Bleep - Down The Rabbit Hole".
Have you seen it?

Your post is a great discourse on the Ego and I agree with everything you've said.



This I have found to be very true. My Ego has resisted my efforts to 'diminish' it's powerful hold upon me. For example: When I began reading about and attempting to do Insight Meditation (Vipassana) I became confused and depressed for I thought by doing it I would be eliminating my Ego. It wasn't until I began reading/listening to Jack Kornfield's works that I began to understand.

Jack said to treat one's Ego like a puppy you are training. When you tell your puppy to "Sit" - you show him how to do it with kindness. Then you repeat the command. One doesn't expect the puppy to perform the behavior right away - right? And any normal person wouldn't act harshly with the puppy just because it didn't "Sit" the first few times either. No - one would gently push the puppy's butt down to the floor in a sitting position and say "Sit". Over and over again, you repeat the training with kindness until the puppy finally gets the message.

He says this is the attitude that works best for disengaging the power of the Ego and changing it accept the reality of one's life as it is now. You approach your Ego with compassion and kindness. No judgment. No force of will. No beating it up for making one's life miserable. (Which the Ego generally does - if you watch for it.)

To me this is incredibly difficult to do because my Ego has all of those old harsh, judgmental voices in my head from training I received when I was a child. How else am I going to filter my experiences - if not through the old ways of thinking? It's almost like a Moebius strip. Thankfully, practicing mindfulness and meditating and going on retreats have given me a way to see my Ego in a loving way. Don't get me wrong - I have miles and miles and miles to go on my journey of learning to be wholly present in the now - at any given moment. But - at least now I can recognize what my Ego is trying to do before I get all caught up in it.

Hopefully one day I'll be able to dance with my Ego and I'll be doing the leading - not the following.

Thank you for posting this April. You have a very succinct way of describing the Ego.

Oh - I had one more thought on this.... imo the Ego is necessary for one to survive on this planet. So I do not discount it - not one bit.

Many thanks K-gal =) I love the puppy analogy, that seems to be very a good way of describing it, and I agree that without an ego you probably wouldn't be able to survive. ah man, we humans have so much to learn! But the journey is certainly an interesting one.
Out of curiousity, what were those retreats like? I've heard of vipassana meditation but never actually tried it.

 

[TinyBubbles]

When you truly love something, you can let it go ^_^

*cheesy*

pretty much =)

 

[Razare]

Umm, just my personal thought on the top part with the numbers that discusses ego. (Sorry, too lazy to read the bottom.)

All of it sounds good to me, but what it reminds me of is our natural inclination to attempt to control our lives.

Many forms of spirituality attempt to make us let-go of this ego or drive, because ultimately we do not have control. Once you let go of this, your internal fears subside and you can achieve a lot of stress relief all in a single moment.

From a Christian point of view, I think this can be confused with God's love, or maybe be the same thing in certain instances. Whatever the case, letting go of our need to control is somewhat possible, I think.

 

[TinyBubbles]

3. Outside of ego, what motivation would you have for making a choice in the first place?
7. Resisting making a choice is making a choice.
9. I disagree. We can have a far more justified belief in the next moment than the afterlife because we know that the next moment is possible, but we don't know if the afterlife is possible.
11. Entirely? So would fear be the sensitivity to pain itself?
12. What do you mean by selfishness?
13. What about buddha?
14. IDK.
15.

3, 7. Good point. We probably wouldn't be motivated to do anything without an ego, including the basic actions necessary to preserve life. But I've noticed without an ego, I become very compassionate towards other people, and am motivated to help. It becomes automatic. No lie. The no motivation thing applies to my own needs.
9. I disagree with this. We do not know the next moment is possible, we're just inferring that it is likely based on our memories that every moment in the past was followed by another moment. Without the support of those memories, there's no certainty of anything beyond now.
11. Yes. I have a theory that when we're babies, the moment something physically hurts our bodies, we instinctively move away from it, and because we're witnessing that motion & based on an instinctive drive to survive, we interpret that as physical pain. Once we learn language, pain gets divided into emotional and physical, when it may just be the same sensation. Think about anything long enough and you can splice the continuum into infinite parts, but unless you continue to think of it in that way, it collapses back into the one thing. What we're interpreting as reality is a division bred purely of collective perspective. I could be totally wrong though, of course.
12. Self seeking, self expressing, wanting things to come to you regardless of or at the cost of someone else's wants/needs, because of a feeling that you/someone you love will gain something if you do, or be hurt or deprived if you do not. Selfishness in this context is also the adherence to an idea, even a good idea like everyone should be free.
13. Well, the implication is that he has no ego since he is apparently enlightened, I don't think he's even actually said it (which would make sense). (OOPS. meant the Dalai lama. lol But the next sentence applies to Buddha too!) I think the 'everyone has an ego' thing is true initially, but that people can get beyond it, especially with the use of psychedelics (ego death). Maintaining that sense of "Oneness" and a totally vacant void state would probably be more difficult. (btw, ego death is terrifying.)

Why would suicide be the result of extreme resistance to reality? This is presupposing reality is something which would dissuade a person from suicide. Studies have shown that depressed persons have more realistic perceptions compared to not depressed persons, and this make sense. Depending on the situation, there is no reason to believe it will all get better.

True. No reason to believe it will get better or worse. I'm basing it on the assumption that we have a survival instinct, which definitely could be wrong. If we don't, then the people longing for death would be no less aware of reality and acting upon it than those who choose to take other routes (and if the study is accurate & they're more realistic, then you've gotta wonder what's going on with everyone else - is optimism a delusion?)

Thanks for responding =)

 

[TinyBubbles]

i am currently involved in a practice that emphasizes awareness and the search for the truth. dissolving the personality is described almost as more of a secondary reaction to that search, and i think thats an important note to make. a common mistake i had upon first starting out on this expedition into myself was that i wanted to dissolve or get rid of the ego because i saw it as the inherent source of all my problems. DA states just as wyote suggested that only through love; which is synonymous with inquiry or the want to find the truth of any given situation (thus the reason when we love someone or something, we want to know more about them in their entirety), can we understand and accept any conflict.

so i don't see the ego as such a bad thing, in theory it created itself to mirror the essential aspects of Being that we are all born with and inhabit before we created it. this is why DA uses the enneagram, to help us understand Why our personality developed in the way that it did, which is to essentially mirror that which was lost. the problem is that awareness or Being, uses love and understanding to take the wind out of these conflicts sails so to speak, whereas the personality uses hatred.

i'm not trying to say that hatred is a terrible thing or that anyone who feels it should be chastised or shunned, if anything i would just suggest that its not the best tool for getting rid of self conflicts. hatred could be described as the need or want to reject or disown, get rid of something, whether that be something in ourselves, or something in our environment. the problem is that we can't readily rid ourselves from our inner problems by simply hating them, even when we manipulate our own feelings, it doesn't change or get rid of them, it merely obscures or deflects them momentarily. so you can see why the common stance towards the ego may be one of hatred or rejection, its how the personality attempts to rid itself of unwelcome experiences. but ultimately it is through insight and acceptance (not so much resigned acceptance, but more of a "whatever is, is, acceptance), that we begin to understand and sympathize with our ego and eventually live without one as misconceptions and biases are brought to awareness through the openness true acceptance creates.

in the grander scheme of things, i think for a long time now the idea of living or experiencing reality beyond the personality is not a new concept. even beyond conscious altering drugs, middle eastern/eastern practices such as buddhism, sufism, platonism, all have similar connected principles that contribute to DA. i just think that through the help of modern science we as a species are beginning to fine tune the technique of experiencing reality in a more fundamental way. and i'm not suggesting that one way is better than the other, i just think that it'd be beneficial if people knew they had a choice between the two.

Wonderfully said. I agree fully, especially about it being beneficial to know you have a choice. Knowledge is power and all that right? thankyou [MENTION=2263]bagelriffic[/MENTION]

 

[TinyBubbles]

7. If a policeman punches your arm and your ego isn't involved, you say "Ow!". If it is involved, you stop and think "That hurt, but he's in a position of authority. Should I say ouch? Should I just stay silent? What would be best for me? What do I really want to do? Why can't I think of the right thing to do? I need to act correctly in this situation."

Yep. Ego allows all planned actions. Without an ego you're running on emotion and impulse.

 

[Kgal]

i am currently involved in a practice that emphasizes awareness and the search for the truth. dissolving the personality is described almost as more of a secondary reaction to that search, and i think thats an important note to make. a common mistake i had upon first starting out on this expedition into myself was that i wanted to dissolve or get rid of the ego because i saw it as the inherent source of all my problems. DA states just as wyote suggested that only through love; which is synonymous with inquiry or the want to find the truth of any given situation (thus the reason when we love someone or something, we want to know more about them in their entirety), can we understand and accept any conflict.

so i don't see the ego as such a bad thing, in theory it created itself to mirror the essential aspects of Being that we are all born with and inhabit before we created it. this is why DA uses the enneagram, to help us understand Why our personality developed in the way that it did, which is to essentially mirror that which was lost. the problem is that awareness or Being, uses love and understanding to take the wind out of these conflicts sails so to speak, whereas the personality uses hatred.

i'm not trying to say that hatred is a terrible thing or that anyone who feels it should be chastised or shunned, if anything i would just suggest that its not the best tool for getting rid of self conflicts. hatred could be described as the need or want to reject or disown, get rid of something, whether that be something in ourselves, or something in our environment. the problem is that we can't readily rid ourselves from our inner problems by simply hating them, even when we manipulate our own feelings, it doesn't change or get rid of them, it merely obscures or deflects them momentarily. so you can see why the common stance towards the ego may be one of hatred or rejection, its how the personality attempts to rid itself of unwelcome experiences. but ultimately it is through insight and acceptance (not so much resigned acceptance, but more of a "whatever is, is, acceptance), that we begin to understand and sympathize with our ego and eventually live without one as misconceptions and biases are brought to awareness through the openness true acceptance creates.

in the grander scheme of things, i think for a long time now the idea of living or experiencing reality beyond the personality is not a new concept. even beyond conscious altering drugs, middle eastern/eastern practices such as buddhism, sufism, platonism, all have similar connected principles that contribute to DA. i just think that through the help of modern science we as a species are beginning to fine tune the technique of experiencing reality in a more fundamental way. and i'm not suggesting that one way is better than the other, i just think that it'd be beneficial if people knew they had a choice between the two.

We almost have to be willing to be vulnerable with ourselves - don't we...

I like what you said here Bagleriffic. :nod:

 

[Kgal]

Many thanks K-gal =) I love the puppy analogy, that seems to be very a good way of describing it, and I agree that without an ego you probably wouldn't be able to survive. ah man, we humans have so much to learn! But the journey is certainly an interesting one.

Out of curiousity, what were those retreats like? I've heard of vipassana meditation but never actually tried it.

They are silent retreats with many others.

My first ones were only half a day long. A teacher from Houston came over to our little city and spent the day with us. She guided us through some beginning meditations and we also did 'body' work. She talked us through a relaxation technique designed to get you out of your mind (Ego I suppose) and into the body. To completely experience one's body as it is. This one helped me to expand my notion of being aware.

When I first consented to go to one that lasted from Thursday night thru Sunday afternoon - I thought "Me? Keep my mouth shut for 3 whole days?!!! - ummmm- probably impossible." LOL

This one was held at retreat center in the middle of 40 acres surrounded by acres and acres of countryside. There were TX bluebonnets and Indian Paint Brush dotting the fields. It was quite lovely - and not too hot - for TX. LOL The place resembled this photo:

We had a meeting the evening we arrived to outline the schedule. We were basically to sit for 45 minutes at a time - then have a walking meditation for 45 minutes - then a teaching - then repeat. Breakfast, lunch, and a light dinner were prepared for us each day. We all had duties we signed up to perform. We all cleaned our dishes after each meal.

The teacher for this retreat is a well known Dharma teacher from Spirit Rock in CA named Howard Cohn.
http://www.dharmaseed.org/teacher/82/ Even though you might say he is famous - He was so generous and genuine that I felt at ease being with him. I found it reassuring to see that even long time Meditation Teachers are still human and have to deal with their issues just like me. I remember Jack saying that Monks get betrayed too - just like the rest of us - and have to deal with their thoughts and feelings from it. Howard is married and has an 11 year old daughter. He talked about his family and how loved them. He also laughingly told us how his daughter provides ample opportunities to practice. He was a joy to learn from.

The interesting thing about sitting on the cushion with yourself for hours off and on for days - is that your mind finally starts to settle down. But it takes a while....

The first day was horrible and I became very angry with myself. I couldn't sit still. Everything in my body hurt. My Ego told me I was a failure and to give it up and on and on. hwell: I was on a retreat though - and couldn't leave because I rode with a friend. Aagghh... So - I kept at it.

The next day I started out thinking I was here I might as well make the most of it - and then it happened. I could sit still and my body didn't hurt. My mind finally started shutting up. :lol: I began to notice my surroundings with more detail. And I REALLY noticed the people around me. It's an amazing thing to experience not talking with others. We were encouraged to not interact with people at all - unless it was an attempt to work out the living arrangements and so on. So - no looking people in the eyes - unless necessary. No looking at people while eating or walking past them.

I was astounded at the information I picked up about everyone even though there was no eye contact or talking. I began to hear more things - like the birds in the trees surrounding the meditation hall. The clink of forks and spoons as we ate our soup. The sighs of people around me as they struggled to accept their inner demons. I noticed their pain lined in their faces - especially of newer meditators. I noticed the peace of the countenance of the long time meditators. I felt the sensations of people all around me. If you have ever meditated in a group it is an awesome experience. Especially when led through a Loving Kindness meditation. If you open yourself to the feelings flowing around the room one can feel love.

I also learned a great deal about myself that would have probably taken longer by doing a short meditation each day. I found it to be very enlightening for me. And of course - that is the point.

I can say that even though it began with a feeling of anger and awkwardness - by the end of the retreat I felt transformed.

Today is my last day of work. I'll be off for who knows how long as the job market for me is slim to none. During this time off I plan to go on a little retreat at my home. No contact with the outside world. No talking to myself. LOL. Just various meditations and some dancing and eating vegatables. I'm looking forward to it. Hah! Only an INFJ would see the fun in that...:lol:

 

[Nixie]

1. At your lowest level of understanding perhaps but many people can move beyond this individual delusional stage.
2. My understanding of reality is hampered by my own self interest--probably a better wording.
3. Nobody has total freedom of choice. This implies that life offers no boundries but there are at a minimun physical boundaries.

To me, Ego is the realization that others are separate from me and is a self identified catalog of the differences and similiarities between me and others. The sense of being separte from others and man's social drive compels him to seek others, and the by product is the ego. Man has developed a method to reconcile that someone else isn't me by constructing a system (the ego) of what is me to compare/contrast to others. If "others" didn't exist, there would be no need for "me". Ego is a byproduct of a social system rather than a hive mentality.

 

[randomsomeone]

Some very interesting thoughts here....I'll add 2 cents in from my own perspective.

Ego is a valuable thing within us...we probably wouldn't get out of bed in the morning without it. It is but one facet of us, though, and I think the ego works best when it is functioning, but not overshadowing, other parts of our make up. We are made for connection and one part of this comes through spirit, or heart...depending on understanding of terms. In short, we are designed for connection to the Divine Love....a partnership. To cross over or engage in this connection, the ego has to let go of it's primal, survival mode that often craves control and protection. This is understandable, but we are not complete, nor can we discover our truest self when we are trapped in the coccoon our egos can spin for us. We want a world we can understand, grasp, control....we want it all perfectly safe based on our construct. We want spirituality, but only so far as it agrees with our ego-position. This is very limiting.

Connection with the Divine requires that we enter a world in which all of our assumptions are revisited and our constructs revised. We must learn...be recreated...even reborn. This is not something the ego is generally comfortable with. Yet, this is the only way to escape the gravity-well of our own selves and, through connection to the Divine Love which heals, removes fear, instills inner peace and hope, finds a new type of self that truly can live in love and service, which relies on and is a reflection of the Divine Love. We do not "own" this life any more...it is a partnership....a feedback coupling with God. There is a whole universe within this other expression of the human life...I won't dive into all the details. I believe we are made for this connection, deep within.

Anyway, in terms of Biblical thought/wisdom (the tradition I am most familar with) this is "removing the heart of stone (ego-centric) and receiving a heart of flesh (God-centric with the ego properly aligned). The story of Eden's Garden and the prime sin isn't just about an apple and obedience...it is about people deciding they could do it all without God (the Divine Source, Love), that the connection wasn't all that big a deal, and that we could really be self-reliant....a form of ego-centricity. The story continues with many attempts to restore connections and all these, based on our work and effort, seems to fail. It is in light of this that the idea of God restoring the connection that we could not becomes so valuable. A connection is mediated, and yet it still requires our free will and assent. This goes straight back to the very issue in the beginning, doesn't it?

I use Biblical imagery to get at the idea of what is a very universal shift in the role of the ego, one that transcends and begins to free us from the primal mode (us) to a Divine mode (all). Until we/I make this crossing, the ego and it's world is generally all we can see/imagine....but there is so, so much more to possibility of truly human existence.