Turning the other cheek

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Turning the other cheek?

Luke 6:29
If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic.

Matthew 5:39
But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

I have always found this concept interesting and i think it holds a Truth. Im still processing what i think it means to me. Something along the lines of not letting your ego control you, choosing love over fear, not needing to defend yourself as we are all interconnected...Still processing...Would like to hear other peoples thoughts on this concept

What do these verses mean to you? How do you intepret them?

I want this thread to be an interesting and productive dialogue. I certainly did not start this thread so people can put others down, so please be respectful and dont be mean! ELE
 
I think this is a delicate proposition. In my view, it goes hand in hand with "don't be selfish" and others like it, whereby the assumption is that we aren't sufficiently selfless or that we don't turn the other cheek enough. For those of us who are and who do, turn the other cheek could be a painful offer.

I think what's also missing is why we ought to do it, how we could do it, when we may do it, and when we may ought to run for the hills. It's not good enough, imo, to be told to turn the other cheek without addressing that it's okay to feel hurt, it's okay to process these emotions, and it's okay to sometimes walk away or defend oneself. The lesson is fine, but the lacking nuances need to be considered otherwise the entire suggestion could be misguided.
All in all, I think turn the other cheek is far too abstract a suggestion in and of itself. I don't know whether we live in a sufficiently healthy and functional society that a majority of people may be able to take that message and abide by it in positive and empowering ways. I think far too many of us may be messed up trying to implement it.

I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for, and I hope it doesn't redirect the purpose of your post.
 
charlene said:
Luke 6:29
If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic.
Click to expand...

So if I'm walking down a dark alley and someone takes my cloak and then proceeds to try to rip my tunic off, I'm not supposed to reach for my bear spray?
 
Also relevant

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Okay serious answer time.

When you put it in terms of interconnectedness of humanity I can understand what you are getting at. If someone has been messed up enough to turn to evil deeds and you only return with kindness to them, it's like, you're telling them that there is kindness in the world even if they think they're terrible people, sharing is caring, acceptance of everyone, blah blah all that. If you show defensiveness it's a way of separating yourself from the other, and while even though this in itself is not a bad thing, if in the end all we as people have is each other then, defensiveness is implying that your material goods, your ego, your pride and self-preservation, are all more valuable and urgent than the humanity and compassion-deservingness of others. Also, weakness makes people loveable and opens up the windows of compassion. If some criminal goes to steal a fancy jacket off of an old person and the old person acts like a helpless puppy dog instead of a cranky old man, then in that instance the criminal might be taken off guard and actually feel like he doesn't need to be destructive and aggressive and his compassion might be sparked. Weakness/vulnerability can make aggressors more aware that they are being assholes.

I'm not sure if this actually happened in the Bible but something like this must have happened: I imagine that if I was part of some ancient gang that was throwing rocks at Jesus and instead of fighting back he just looked sad and curled up into a ball and took it, I would feel so bad about myself and would probably stop.
 
Perhaps:

* If you fight fire with fire, the whole lot gets burnt down: blood feuds develop; revenge becomes part of the culture, etc.

* The 'turn the other cheek' was specific to Christians been attacked - in which case it would fit with the notion that one should be willing to suffer for what is right/good - not just in terms of self denial, but also in terms of attack.
 
Thanks for responding guys and giving me more to think about. I dont have time to respond now but i will be back next week
 
The context seems to be one of the protagonists land being occupied by an outside force ie the Romans

There were many voices advocating direct revolt against the occupying forces.

John the Baptist had been preaching to a large following which lead to him being perceived as a threat to the authorities who then violently shut him down. Jesus couldn't have ben under any illusions about the risks involved with open dissent against the authorities. He gathered around him a group of bodyguards and told them to fetch weapons. They then hit the road on a campaign to spread awareness. they kept on the move, which will have helped them stay ahead of the authorities. In the end of the story the venture ends with a confrontation with the authorities

So the idea of turning the other cheek might have been a ploy to stay out of trouble so as not to draw unnecessary attention or trouble to their cause

In another sense the idea could be seen as a way of preventing the process of karma. For example if someone strikes you and you strike them back, even if you win the conflict they or their family may come and seek retribution. I doubt it would have been uncommon for people to take the law into their own hands in those days as the law was not a phone call away

Cycles of karma burn up energy and can be very destructive eg fueds and vendettas. Someone has to break the cycle and free everyone involved from the fear and angst involved

So perhaps turning the other cheek can be seen as a way of not piling violence on top of violence. A spiritually minded person may seek to keep their karmic bank account at zero in order to purify themselves as a way of being closer to god
 
charlene said:
Turning the other cheek?

Luke 6:29
If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic.

Matthew 5:39
But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

I have always found this concept interesting and i think it holds a Truth. Im still processing what i think it means to me. Something along the lines of not letting your ego control you, choosing love over fear, not needing to defend yourself as we are all interconnected...Still processing...Would like to hear other peoples thoughts on this concept

What do these verses mean to you? How do you intepret them?
Click to expand...

On some level it means do not resist that which is coming to me.

From a Buddhist perspective resistance to that 'which is' causes suffering.

In my own life experience I can see when I resisted something or someone's point of view - and argued or railed against it - it only entrenches me and/or them in our positions. I stay stuck....They stay stuck.

When I quit resisting myself or them - then flow began again - and I could continue on my path.

I read a book once which depicted Jesus as a revolutionary - a rebel - against the roman jews and their culture.
Back in those days there was some cultural thing where if one was struck on the right side of the face it was considered 'clean' (I think) and if the other cheek was hit it was considered taboo. I admit I'm not sure I'm getting this right. Nevertheless - Jesus advocated to his group of peoples to turn their cheeks quickly so the roman would hit the wrong one - and therefore commit a taboo.

Hmmm.... I wish I could remember the name of that book.... The Shack maybe? I shall try to find it....

Anyway - that's what popped into my mind first.... That Jesus was a revolutionary and taught many things of this nature to empower his people. Like any timeless teachings his words will have many meanings depending upon one's limits of awareness.

This was interesting.... :)
 
niffer said:
Also relevant

Okay serious answer time.

When you put it in terms of interconnectedness of humanity I can understand what you are getting at. If someone has been messed up enough to turn to evil deeds and you only return with kindness to them, it's like, you're telling them that there is kindness in the world even if they think they're terrible people, sharing is caring, acceptance of everyone, blah blah all that. If you show defensiveness it's a way of separating yourself from the other, and while even though this in itself is not a bad thing, if in the end all we as people have is each other then, defensiveness is implying that your material goods, your ego, your pride and self-preservation, are all more valuable and urgent than the humanity and compassion-deservingness of others. Also, weakness makes people loveable and opens up the windows of compassion. If some criminal goes to steal a fancy jacket off of an old person and the old person acts like a helpless puppy dog instead of a cranky old man, then in that instance the criminal might be taken off guard and actually feel like he doesn't need to be destructive and aggressive and his compassion might be sparked. Weakness/vulnerability can make aggressors more aware that they are being assholes.

I'm not sure if this actually happened in the Bible but something like this must have happened: I imagine that if I was part of some ancient gang that was throwing rocks at Jesus and instead of fighting back he just looked sad and curled up into a ball and took it, I would feel so bad about myself and would probably stop.
Click to expand...

This is a great example of what I was thinking. The resistance keeps the other person entrenched in their original motive and emotional state. I have found when I don't resist - whatever is being presented to me - then the person can achieve a larger perspective.

One time a long time ago my ex became enraged at women riding a 4 wheeler slowly down the county road in front of him. She was riding right down the middle keeping him crawling at a very slow pace for a mile. He assumed she was being arrogant - you know - because he is - and when she finally moved over enough to let him pass - he roared by her narrowly missing her 4 wheeler. In his rear view mirror he saw a toddler sitting on her lap and he immediately felt horrified that he could have caused an accident. He told me about it when he came home - then he had to leave.

Several minutes later I hear a knock on the front door. When I opened it there stood a very - VERY - angry man ready to fight my ex over the incident. He was the husband and the father. As he began yelling at me I stayed calm and agreed with every word he had to say. Every. word.

After a few minutes he ran out of steam...

It was then I began to speak to him - telling him I didn't blame him for being upset and concerned for the safety and well being of his wife and child. I asked him if he knew if it was legal to drive a 4 wheeler down a county road - especially with a toddler in the front seat. At that point he admitted he had called the Sherriff's office on my ex. Probably told them my ex was a crazy man... you can imagine what he said. I could tell he said all that stuff because his eyes began to give me that "oh shit what did I do" look.

When I told the man how mad my Ex had become because he thought the woman was just ignoring him that he lost all reasoning in his anger - the man admitted he too had become angry in those ways.

In the end I thanked him for coming to talk to me. He left in a confused and reflective state.

When my ex got back I told him what happened. When the Sheriff Deputy showed up my Ex was calm and talked to him in an open manner. Yes. It's true it's against the law to drive a 4 wheeler down the county road and the Sheriff had explained it to those people.

All turned out as well as it could.

In other circumstances there might have been a fist fight and gun shots ringing in the night.
 
demand nothing. give all.



I always wonder if I could manage to be completely silent and still during a rape. I figure they get off on the struggle and the screams. In reality I think I would beg them to kill me and do whatever to my corpse. I don't know, but I can tell you I used to curl up into a ball and cover my head while my sister would punch me and it never made her stop. She only stopped when I finally hit her back once, or the time I held up forks and gave her the crazy eye. I think I would beat the fuck out of her now that I am an adult, but I hope I won't have the need. I got really tired of being abused, though.
 
So Ive been thinking a lot about this concept and i think it has to do with grace, love, and living with consciousness.
To turn the other cheek is to stand your ground. It is like being able to stand in the face of fear or 'offence' and not back down. Its not fight or flight, to defend or attack. It seems to bypass all these 'normal' ego based responses.

When we turn the other cheek we afford the other person grace. We are saying, 'if you need to hit me, here I am'. Because we have not reacted immediately to the behaviour with another fear based response, we have given the situation pause, a moment to reflect on what is really happening. We have chosen to not go into defence/offence mode. We have given the other person a way out, if they want/choose to take it. We have broken the momentum and cylce of fear/offend/defend.

In that sense I don't think that turning the cheek is about defiance. Maybe defiance against our own ego but it is not defiance against the other person. Its like the ultimate act of humbleness and strength. You have struck me on the other cheek but I'm not going to run away or hurt you. I'm just going to stand here and wait. I have acknowledged that you have hit me (tried to offend me), but I'm not going to hurt you. I'm going to stand here, be patient and hear what you have to say. I am not ignoring you, I am willing to engage with you, but you do not have power over my will. I am in control of my actions and I choose to stand here with you, on my terms.

In regards to 'If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic', I think this is once again about affording someone grace. If someone is trying to take your tunic, maybe they are cold, maybe they need it more. Rather than being hurt or offended, or reacting in anger, why not give them the shirt of your back? Transform a negative deed of theft into an act of grace and kindness. If you want my cloak, why not have my shirt? You don't have to steal it from me, I will give it to you freely, in Love and Grace. You are my brother and if you want something, you need only ask. This may be what that other person really needs to know, that there is kindness in the world, that there is hope, possibilities and potential.

I'm sure it would be hard to hurt someone physically, emotionally, mentally or spiritually if that person was acting in grace and willing to hear you out and willing to give you a way out.
It reminds me of Eleanor Roosevelt's quote- 'No one can hurt you without you consent'. People can only hurt us if/when we allow them to. We always have a choice. We can choose if we are going to be offended or not. A strike on the cheek, or someone taking your cloak can be seen as someone trying to hurt your pride. These actions need not hurt us unless we want them to. These actions can not destroy us, only hurt us in the measure we allow.

To put in into context, I don't think turning the other cheek is about being a wimp, weak or a pushover. It is the complete opposite. Its being so full of strength and confidence that we can afford grace to others. When we confident of who we are, and we Love ourself and value ourself as conscious and creative being we do not have to be offended by trifle attacks to our ego. We can rise above this pettiness and look critically at what is really going on in any given situation. We can look at the other person and see past all their fear and acknowledge and value them for who they truly are When a person attacks us or feels they need to defend themselves it is because that person is feeling fear. They are reacting in the easiest way possible for their fragile ego. They want to hurt you because they are hurting. They want you to feel their hurt. They may be embarrassed about this which increases their fear. They may be ignorant and not have the self awareness to be cognisant of their underlying motivations and thought processes. When others try to hurt us they are really just hurting themselves. We hurt ourselves when we try to hurt others. When we see this happening we can give them some room so they can realign themselves and back out of the situation if they wish. We can acknowledge them as a person, an equal being worthy of Love and compassion, and we can try to communicate with them, to address the root of their concern.

Its very important though, that we understand the difference between a perceived attack to our ego and a violation of human rights. Love is the highest principle, and the concept of 'turning the other cheek' needs to be aligned with the spirit of Love to be a Truth. This means that if someone is violating yours or another's rights as human, you should definitely do something! To allow someone to violate you means that you don't understand your worth and value as a being, and your right to exist, be free and happy.

When Jesus walked into the temple and saw that it had been turned into a marketplace he was really pissed off and started smashing shit around. He seemed to be quite frustrated and angry in many parts of the gospel, irritated by the ignorance and injustice. He tried to transform culture, overthrowing and speaking against centuries of barbaric traditions, cultural ignorance and irrelevant institutions. He stood up for the poor and downtrodden. I really don't think that the message is that we should let people walk over us or bury our heads in the sand because we fear confrontation. The real message is choice and empowerment. We are in control, we are empowered. We can choose our battles. We can choose when we are offended. We can choose to act rather than simply react in egotistical fear.

In Truth and consciousness, we are all interconnected and we all were created form the same source of Love. There is no good or evil, there is just learning, evolving and connecting. The Law of Attraction will dutifully manifest out thoughts in reality, indiscriminate to whether those thoughts are hopes or fears. As long as we remain centred on Love and think about what we want, there is nothing that can hurt us. It is only our own fears that can hurt us if we allow it to. And even then, we can change this in an instant, with a thought and a conscious choice. We live forever in the present. There is only ever the present moment. Each precious pregnant moment where we can choose to be who we want to be, to be completely free to be and do whatever we choose.

Theres lots more that i want to say but i think ive crapped on enough for now
 
Judge not, lest ye also be judged. Rather judge this: that no man place a stumblingblock or rock of offense in the path of your brethren. I personally do not have to fight anyone except with words. Remember this one? He among you that is without sin, let him cast the first stone.
 
Turning the other cheek and allowing someone to take your tunic also had some cultural subtleties that we don't think about today.

The when someone hit you with the back of their hand, it was a sign of disrespect, it was them showing you that you weren't even worth being hit with in the proper fashion(a slap with an open palm). Turing the other cheek forced the person who disrespected you to hit you with their open hand, forcing them to show you respect.

The tunic comes also has interesting connotations, in Jewish culture being nude wasn't a sin, but to see someone nude was. If someone came a demanded your cloak and you tried to give them your tunic as well, they'd be forced to look at your nude body and that would cause them to sin. The result was that your attacker would have to plead and beg with you to keep your cloak on.
 
From 'A Course in Miracles', chapter 5, 4:4

I heard one Voice because i understood that I could not atone for myself alone. Listening to one Voice implies the decision to share It in order to hear It yourself. The Mind that was in me is still irrestibably drawn to every mind created by God, because God's Wholeness is the Wholeness of His Son. You cannot be hurt, and do not want to show your brother anything except your wholeness. Show him that he cannot hurt you and hold nothing against him, or you hold it against yourself. This is the meaning of 'turning the other cheek'.
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The one Voice refers to the Holy spirit. There are 2 voices we can hear- the voice of the Holy Spirit- Love- Oneness- Wholeness- Truth, and the voice of the Ego- Fear- Separation- Lack- Illusion
 
charlene said:
Turning the other cheek?

Luke 6:29
If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic.

Matthew 5:39
But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

I have always found this concept interesting and i think it holds a Truth. Im still processing what i think it means to me. Something along the lines of not letting your ego control you, choosing love over fear, not needing to defend yourself as we are all interconnected...Still processing...Would like to hear other peoples thoughts on this concept

What do these verses mean to you? How do you intepret them?

I want this thread to be an interesting and productive dialogue. I certainly did not start this thread so people can put others down, so please be respectful and dont be mean! ELE
Click to expand...

It reffers to the virtue of meekness and the denying of self in christian doctrine. Meekness means strength in control, or strength like a "velvet steel". Jesus Christ is the simbol of meekness, a lamb, but in the same time, a lion.
The teaching behind this bible doctrine is that we must not protect ourselfs at any cost, instead we must deny our self, and let God protect us. God is the supreme Judger, He will judge all things according to His justice.
 
Later on in Matthew it becomes more relevant:

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


It also says previously:
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’
28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Now who is going to do that?
 
I always thought it just meant to be forgiving. Instead of seeking vengeance, learn to forgive. Forgive others, and forgive yourself as well.

Easier said than done I've found.
 
charlene said:
Turning the other cheek?

Luke 6:29
If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic.

Matthew 5:39
But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

I have always found this concept interesting and i think it holds a Truth. Im still processing what i think it means to me. Something along the lines of not letting your ego control you, choosing love over fear, not needing to defend yourself as we are all interconnected...Still processing...Would like to hear other peoples thoughts on this concept

What do these verses mean to you? How do you intepret them?

I want this thread to be an interesting and productive dialogue. I certainly did not start this thread so people can put others down, so please be respectful and dont be mean! ELE
Click to expand...

For me; it means that I myself possess the same amount of ill will or "evil" as shown in the other person's actions. That we are all capable of doing the same things of ill will and evil; that we are not really separate from others actions and how it affects us. There is no level of moral inferiority; instead we see in others what we ourselves have inside of us. This humbles us and if we allow ourselves; we can learn to forgive ourselves for being so.
 
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