Wikileaks leaked video of Civilians killed in Baghdad - Full video (Warning: Raw feed)

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ec3khrl

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8603938.stm

WikiLeaks posts video of 'US military killings' in Iraq


WikiLeaks has posted a video on its website which it claims shows the killing of civilians by the US military in Baghdad in 2007.

The website's organisers say they were given the footage, which they say comes from cameras on US Apache helicopters.



They say they decrypted it, but would not reveal who gave it to them.
The WikiLeaks site campaigns for freedom of information and posts leaked documents online. So far there has been no official Pentagon response.


However, Reuters and the Associated Press have quoted unnamed US military officials as confirming the video was genuine.


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is9sxRfU-ik"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]
So be warned, it's uncut.

I ain't American but I am not against it. So please do not assume this is some anti-American shit from me.

Hope it will be an enlightening experience for some members around here.

If anyone feels bad after watching the video, which aspect strikes you the most?

For me it's not the killing but the attitude of those who did it. Imagine yourself walking on the street and got hit like that just because some gung-hos are CONSISTENTLY looking for a single reason to waste you ALL.
 
I saw it. It is awful ... I can not believe that they did that and that afterwards they lied to the world about what happened. I am so disgusted by the soldiers who did that, I have no words to express it.
 
Doubtless, this is not an exceptional incident.
 
...This is war...This is one incident of many...I didn't watch the entire video I got bored...like Rakawi said this is not exceptional...this is common in the war zone...I actually have to agree with what one of the solders said...Dont bring your kids to a battle...Is it sad that a child died yes...

Did anyone notice the woman and child they let get away? the did not intentionally engage there...seriously...lighten up its war...War is bad and people die...I think modern war is a lot less barbaric then it used to be...
 
Entyqua said:
...This is war...This is one incident of many...I didn't watch the entire video I got bored...like Rakawi said this is not exceptional...this is common in the war zone...I actually have to agree with what one of the solders said...Dont bring your kids to a battle...Is it sad that a child died yes...

Did anyone notice the woman and child they let get away? the did not intentionally engage there...seriously...lighten up its war...War is bad and people die...I think modern war is a lot less barbaric then it used to be...
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I agree with this. War is war. People WILL die friendly fire and civilian casualties occur. You stay in a hostile environment long enough the one's tolerance for shady activity drops off. You see enough soldiers die because a group of people congregate you stop allowing it.
 
The soldiers in this video trivialise life and death. At times it seems like they have underlying desires to kill, and are looking for excuses to do so. At times it seems like they're finding mild amusement in what they do, and praising one another for their actions. Nor do they have dignity for the lives they have taken. I think in any other area of life that kind of behaviour and attitude would be considered psychopathic.

And how they've perverted the expression "hostile ground force" really makes me wonder. I think it illustrates something about the kind of world we live in.

I don't like how every time we pay our taxes, a fraction of that money gets allocated to buying bullets, that are handed to these savages, who are then let loose to quench their blood thirst.
 
Entyqua said:
I think modern war is a lot less barbaric then it used to be...
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I disagree with this. I believe war is becoming more and more barbaric. US Armed Forces training has gone under major revamping in the past few years. It is a natural reaction in humans to not want to kill another person. Yes, there are those of us who have an urge to kill, or a need to harm, but a vast majority of people will not kill someone when the opportunity is presented to them. Ideologies and causes will influence people to kill, but our recent involvement in wars have hardly been highly influenced by causes that our soldiers believe deeply in.

The government frames such conflicts in ways (with word-lab) that pull at American's heart strings. We view our fights as moral, and fighting forces of evil. The Armed Forces teaches soldiers to view conflicts in the same fashion. There is also modern training that breaks apart the desire not to kill, and transforms killing into a minor transgression in the minds of our service wo/men.

I don't remember the exact statistics (because it was in a lecture in one of my Peace and Justice Studies courses), but somewhere around less than half of the guns recovered from Revolutionary and American Civil War battlefields were actually fired. More than 50% were loaded, but never fired. Many interviewed soldiers admitted to intentionally aiming away from enemy combatants. Same with WWI and WWII (although the number of unfired weapons started to decrease). By Vietnam, somewhere around 20-30% of recovered weapons were not fired (full clips of ammunition) and soldiers still admitted to intentionally mis-aiming. On today's battle fields, accuracy ratings are the highest they've ever been (partly due to technology "improvements", and partly because soldiers have been trained to lack the natural response not to kill), and less than 5% of the weapons recovered are fully loaded. With each death, the next becomes easier and easier, and we train our soldiers to make that first kill easier and easier.

Also, I'd argue that warfare has become dramatically more barbaric in recent times. In hand to hand combat, one must watch their enemy die in agony and pain. Not something that sits well on the human mind (there are outliers, of course). In trench warfare, one must watch as other human beings are torn to shreds by bullets from only about 300ft away. Horrifying sights to see. Around WWII, the technology started changing. One could drop bombs from a thousand feet up in the air, and kill hundreds of people. However, the bomber still had to smell the smoke, fire, and burning flesh of their victims.

Today, we are taking out the human consequences for the aggressor. We can drop bombs from miles up, and see none of the consequences in real time. We can push a button, and kill thousands of people on the other side of the world. We can fly planes in Washington DC, and kill people in villages 6,000 miles away. We are taking out the human factor of warfare. Our soldiers no longer have to see all of the horrors of warfare first hand, and killing becomes less and less.

As bloody as old warfare was, I'd say we're becoming more and more barbaric with each technological advance.
 
I didn't approve those civilians to die based on a war machine/government that has to lie to the public and disregard world organizations in order to do what it wants.

The military has to take on more accountability for their own actions now since Blackwater *cough* XE Services got such a bad reputation and is under more scrutiny nowadays.
 
We're less bloody, but more barbaric. Go figure.
 
Out of sight, out of mind. Notice how expert the government is at this nowadays. Dodge the horror and dodge the accountability.

Make politics about BS bipartisan name-calling rather than focusing on actual issues. Create buzzwords that people can have fun slinging around.

Redirect the eyes, nothing to see over there. Disregard the screams, that is the sound of worldwide cleansing.
 
I don't think we giving enough credit to our military, while were no as up close an personal in conflict, we far more precise. We don't need to bomb an entire city get one group out, we have missles that can be launched from miles away and be put through windows. We have so many precausions to avoid collateral that it's no where near as nasty as it was only 100 years ago.

seriously, look at the number of fatalities in a single battle of WWII and compare it to the entire war going on right now. Not even close in numbers.

That doesn't stop the ugliness of war though, infact nothing will. As you said MF were not built to kill each other.

Infact I may go as far as to say that these soldiers come from hat nature of not wanting to kill, but seeing s they have to kill they try to dehumanise their opposition and thats nothing new to war.
 
Barnabas said:
I don't think we giving enough credit to our military, while were no as up close an personal in conflict, we far more precise. We don't need to bomb an entire city get one group out, we have missles that can be launched from miles away and be put through windows. We have so many precausions to avoid collateral that it's no where near as nasty as it was only 100 years ago.

seriously, look at the number of fatalities in a single battle of WWII and compare it to the entire war going on right now. Not even close in numbers.

That doesn't stop the ugliness of war though, infact nothing will. As you said MF were not built to kill each other.

Infact I may go as far as to say that these soldiers come from hat nature of not wanting to kill, but seeing s they have to kill they try to dehumanise their opposition and thats nothing new to war.
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Spoken like a true news channel 5 reporter. :D

Go live with the 'enemy' for a year and come back and repeat that statement.

Oh you mean bloody on our side. I haven't even heard an accurate count of fatalities on the opposing side. I heard 600,000+ but I have no accurate source on that. I can't really trust any numbers handed to me anyone, there are experts at manipulating the numbers, and they are on both sides of the fence.

But I tell you what, that's a lot of terrorists! WHO WOULDA THOUGHT!

Well, if the civilians didn't want to kill us before, they sure as hell want to now!

GENIUS!
 
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look, unless we have soldiers in hear who want to speak from actual experience, let's face it none of us have a clue what war is like.

Especialy some 19 year old kid like me, I just want both sides to be looked at.
 
Barnabas said:
look, unless we have soldiers in hear who want to speak from actual experience, let's face it none of us have a clue what war is like.

Especialy some 19 year old kid like me, I just want both sides to be looked at.
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I would definitely like it if our news made even a simple attempt to cover both sides of the conflict.

I can assure you that the agendas fueling this thing run deep.
 
First of all let me say I dislike the idea of war as much as the next idealist...I see no point to the death and destruction going on over there...I want it to stop...I think war solves nothing...

However this footage could have been any street any war any time...this is typical...I cant cry ooooh bad solders no cookie because they are all doing it.

Point#1: this is obviously in a combat zone...where few if any civilians are likely to be...If my street right now turned into a war zone Id leave...
Point#2: The first of several to be shot had weapons that, if i were a solder, would not want to be on the receiving end of.
Point#3: since this is an uninhabited area, only those wishing to engage the enemy would wish to come here...Dressed as civilians or no these men were not out there going for a joy ride, and the van that joined is the same story.
Point#4: Why they thought it was smart to bring a van with children inside it to an obvious fire fight is beyond me.
Point#5: If I was out there I would probably get desensitized to the killings too...it would be when the war was over that I would have to deal with that can of worms.


Sadly it does sound like these solders are enjoying their kills...but what else is there to find enjoyment in in a war...You are there to engage an enemy...Its a way the lines of right and wrong are skewed from the get go...it is ultimate chaos...its a kill or be killed situation...

MEH...thats all I will say...

I hate war! UGH
 
Yean Enty makes sense. I really don't feel any animosity toward the soldiers. They have been trained to kill and to use that as a metric, so what are we surprised about? But it still tugs at the heart to see actions like this occuring.

However, my problem is with our government/military overall, the direction and the deceit.

To me it seems obvious that the blame doesn't reside on the grunts, it resides with the decision makers. It is impossible to know he circumstances without being there.
 
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NeverAmI said:
Yean Enty makes sense. I really don't feel any animosity toward the soldiers. They have been trained to kill and to use that as a metric, so what are we surprised about.

However, my problem is with our government/military overall, the direction and the deceit.
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We are not surprised, but obviously plenty of Americans like their hidey holes of contentment and are too sheltered to realize that this happens. So the government feels the need to sugar candy coat it for the ostriches of our society.

What these sheltered individuals fail to realize, because A)they believe everything the see on CNN nightly news, B) they are oblivious, is that people die in wars, and not just soldiers...
 
For the record, I don't really "blame" the soldiers in this. They made a judgment call, and initially there happened to be hostiles. An RPG and a helicopter aren't exactly the best of friends. Civilian deaths are also a part of war. It's sad and it sucks, but definitely an accepted evil of war. These weren't intentional civilian deaths (from my understanding)

I see this as a sad happening, but hardly something to be "up in arms" about. Bombing the same Red Cross hospital three times in Afghanistan, carpet bombing rural areas, and the such are unneeded actions that I'm unhappy about. This was an accident.

And as NAI said, the blame lies on the shoulders of those in charge, not the soldiers (except in cases of intentional targeting on the street level without orders, and the such)
 
Most things deserve being "up in arms about," we simply lack the time and resources to take ourselves up against the many tentacles of the beast called Human Error.
 
Rakawi said:
Most things deserve being "up in arms about," we simply lack the time and resources to take ourselves up against the many tentacles of the beast called Human Error.
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More that we don't know all the details, and no one will take action without those details until the problem is staring them in the face. If the government fulfills their intentions then no one will find out the details until many years later and it will continue running intact.

If things keep going the way they are then I doubt it will remain intact.

The implications of a revolution are staggering to think about, though.

People call it mob mentality. I call it massive errors in communication and societal error to truly value education.

I just don't want the idiots to say "SEE THEY REALLY ARE ALL TERRORISTS!" when the pissed off nations someday attempt to attack us, assuming they ever will. Eye for an eye, right? A few punks took down our towers. WE (as a nation) attacked THEM (as a nation) and so we are truly the instigators of a vile and terrifying war as seen in the eyes of mostly everyone in the middle-east.

The way I see it, there are two ways for America to F up majorly, from internal decay/revolution and economically. We seem to be getting quite close to both.

As a conclusion, I think human error is a bit of an understatement.
 
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