Your thoughts on Iran?

bamf

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Before I even pose my question I want to say that I'd like this thread to avoid all that political drama bullshit that has plagued other threads. I understand that the motivations behind answers might be political ones, which is fine, I'd even venture to ask for them, but can we avoid the "That's so conservative/liberal *whine whine whine*" crap? It does nothing constructive and the only purpose it serves is to make the user appear close minded. So without further ado, on to the question...

*What do you think the big deal with Iran acquiring nuclear weapons is? Does the world have something to fear if Iran becomes armed? Is denying Iran justified or not? Is it a political move? Is it a religious move? I guess what I'm interested in is what are your feelings on the matter?
 
Any and every country, regardless of whether they have nukes or not, is going to want to keep nukes or technology that could lead to nukes out of the hands of any other country, friend or foe. Being that nuclear weapons are basically the height of killing technology. Generally speaking of course.
 
Iran has the mixed blessing of being on top of large amounts of oil.

The problem is there are hungry countries who consume a lot of oil and they want the oil and they have more missiles then Iran.

These countries have shown they have no problem with physically taking other countries oil so Iran is very nervous that these aggressive oil hungry countries are going to invade Iran and take their oil.

Iran might want to build more missiles to defend itself OR the oil hungry aggressive countries may just claim that Iran is building missiles to justify to their voters and to the rest of the world why they are invading Iran and stealing their oil.
 
mf said:
Before I even pose my question I want to say that I'd like this thread to avoid all that political drama bullshit that has plagued other threads. I understand that the motivations behind answers might be political ones, which is fine, I'd even venture to ask for them, but can we avoid the "That's so conservative/liberal *whine whine whine*" crap? It does nothing constructive and the only purpose it serves is to make the user appear close minded. So without further ado, on to the question...
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There is a new prefixes called PAX(peace) and PUG(war) use them as you see fit

*What do you think the big deal with Iran acquiring nuclear weapons is? Does the world have something to fear if Iran becomes armed? Is denying Iran justified or not? Is it a political move? Is it a religious move? I guess what I'm interested in is what are your feelings on the matter?
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The thought of a country that doesn't believe in the existence of Israel and feels it should be eradicated being able to press the proverbial big red button doesn't sound appealing... Also Israel WILL be proactive in there means of self preservation and could instigate greater conflict. If you don't think so then search for the air strikes Israel incurred on suspected Iraqi nuclear facilities.
 
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Israel has large amounts of nuclear weapons which has been supplied to it along with vast amounts of money and military hardware from the USA.

Israel is part of the USA sphere of influence.

Iran would be suicidal to attack Israel.
 
muir said:
Iran would be suicidal to attack Israel.
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Yeah, this is basically my thought. If Iran launched a nuke, the whole world (essentially) would be raining down on them. Iran may not recognize Israel, but I'm pretty sure they value their own existence above that.
 
The point of Israel's 'right to exist' is a sticky subject.

Israel has set the ultimatum to the Palestinians that they must 'recognise Israel's right to exist'.

The Palestinians who have lost their land and feel persecuted and humiliated by Israel cannot recognise Israel's 'right to exist', if they do this then they legitimise what has been done to them and accept what has been done.

Israel and the USA know that the Palestinians cannot say those words, even if they are ok with sharing the land with the Israelis and with living alongside them in peace they cannot say those words.

Israel and the USA can use those words in the worlds media to make it look as if the Palestinians are being unreasonable.

I want to see peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians but it is Israel that is being inflexible not the Palestinians. The Israelis hold ALL the cards. They have built a wall around all the best bits of land and all the areas with water, leaving the Palestinians with nothing.

Iran sees Israel as part of the US sphere of influence in the middle east and knows that the US wants their oil. Iran naturally sides with the Palestinians for this reason and partly because they are fellow muslims. Its all geo politics.
 
This is also a theological issue as well. One must realize that MOST of the Islamic States in the area are not happy with Israels existence. I wish I could remember the phrase and where/who I heard it from (fairly certain it was an Imam) but my butchering of it goes

If one of our brothers makes an action against our enemies and is lost we will mourn but also rejoice as we outnumber our enemy
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*

You are absolutely right if Iran does make such a move they too will not exist but Israel wont and the Islamic States in general will too exist. So the general notion that it is suicide could be spun as martyrdom, sacrifice a nation to eradicate the infidels.**

*this is a paraphrase/recollection from my days in high school so if this quote is well known I'm sorry I butchered it.
**I hold no grudge or hatred towards Muslims in general as my portrayal of them is not the most ideal, but you need to realize it only takes one crazy to get a lot of people killed
 
Nobody should have nuclear weapons.
 
Most of the states in the area are unhappy with Israel because of the way they have conducted themselves in the past, and that in WWI the Palestinians helped the British fight off the Turks (and Ottoman Empire) thinking that they'd be freed and all of the Arab peninsula would be unified under Islamic rule. The British then somewhat shafted the Palestinians by allowing Zionist Jews the right to establish small settlements and governments in the region (due in part to increasing antisemitism in much of Europe). The Palestinians and many of the people in the surrounding regions (which later became the Middle Eastern countries) were miffed that the British thought they could give away land that they never really owned. Prior to the British's meddling, Jews Christians and Muslims all lived together peacefully.

kavalan said:
You are absolutely right if Iran does make such a move they too will not exist but Israel wont and the Islamic States in general will too exist. So the general notion that it is suicide could be spun as martyrdom, sacrifice a nation to eradicate the infidels.**


**I hold no grudge or hatred towards Muslims in general as my portrayal of them is not the most ideal, but you need to realize it only takes one crazy to get a lot of people killed
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While I agree that it only takes one crazy, I doubt Iran's goal is to be a martyr. There is too much discretion between the Shi'as and Sunnis to make Iran want to be a martyr for Islam. Iran sees it's self as the ideal Islamic nation and it's destruction would be a huge step backwards for their religious/political goals.
 
The muslim world is divided along many lines, Iraq was at war with Iran in the 1980's.

Religion just makes a nice tidy way of lumping people together when it suits the wests propoganda machine.

If you make the situation into a crusade then you really are inviting an apocalyptic struggle.
 
mf said:
Most of the states in the area are unhappy with Israel because of the way they have conducted themselves in the past, and that in WWI the Palestinians helped the British fight off the Turks (and Ottoman Empire) thinking that they'd be freed and all of the Arab peninsula would be unified under Islamic rule. The British then somewhat shafted the Palestinians by allowing Zionist Jews the right to establish small settlements and governments in the region (due in part to increasing antisemitism in much of Europe). The Palestinians and many of the people in the surrounding regions (which later became the Middle Eastern countries) were miffed that the British thought they could give away land that they never really owned. Prior to the British's meddling, Jews Christians and Muslims all lived together peacefully.



While I agree that it only takes one crazy, I doubt Iran's goal is to be a martyr. There is too much discretion between the Shi'as and Sunnis to make Iran want to be a martyr for Islam. Iran sees it's self as the ideal Islamic nation and it's destruction would be a huge step backwards for their religious/political goals.
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A wonderful insight, couldn't have said it better myself.

Britain promised the Arab nations something great if they would assist in WWI, they never got it, instead they got Israel and no unification. Britain took land away and gave it to a different religion to form a country based on prejudice, what did they THINK would happen???

MF is correct, all kinds of different religions coexisted peacefully before Britain's involvement. This BS that they have always been at war is absurd.
 
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mf said:
Most of the states in the area are unhappy with Israel because of the way they have conducted themselves in the past, and that in WWI the Palestinians helped the British fight off the Turks (and Ottoman Empire) thinking that they'd be freed and all of the Arab peninsula would be unified under Islamic rule. The British then somewhat shafted the Palestinians by allowing Zionist Jews the right to establish small settlements and governments in the region (due in part to increasing antisemitism in much of Europe). The Palestinians and many of the people in the surrounding regions (which later became the Middle Eastern countries) were miffed that the British thought they could give away land that they never really owned. Prior to the British's meddling, Jews Christians and Muslims all lived together peacefully.



While I agree that it only takes one crazy, I doubt Iran's goal is to be a martyr. There is too much discretion between the Shi'as and Sunnis to make Iran want to be a martyr for Islam. Iran sees it's self as the ideal Islamic nation and it's destruction would be a huge step backwards for their religious/political goals.
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This gives a good idea of how mixed up things are there.

Turkey is one of the USA's allys, the USA put forward missile bases there to threaten Russia during the cold war and it used Turkey as a launch pad in the Gulf wars. Turkey however committed genocide against 1 million Armenian christians early in the 20th century.

Britain was ejected from Palestine by Jews who were seen by the imperialistic Brits as 'terrorists', now Britain and israel are allies and the Palestinians are the 'terrorists'. It's about resources not religion.
 
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Oh god please let all technology and civilization crash and press the reset button I am so fucking sick of this shit... I only wish we could pull all of our troops out of all foreign nations, erect a gigantic goddamn wall along our borders and become isolationist again.
 
TheLastMohican said:
It signifies a peaceful thread (from Latin, as in Pax Romana). It means heated arguments are especially discouraged here, and those that start will be split into a PUG thread.
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Well I'm all for a heated arguement, I just want to avoid the "you're so liberal/conservative comments". If it remains civil, I have no problem with a heated debate.
 
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