The Minimal Facts for the Resurrection of Christ.

meowzician said:
Are you sure the font was large enough? Perhaps if you double the size it will change what Judaism teaches about the messiah.
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This is a thread about the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Or did you not see the title?

I know, reading the Bible is hard, and apparently thread titles too.
 
regrat said:
INFJ protestant theologian here:
First, we don't search for historical evidence everywhere in the Bible. At that time, the story told by witness had more value than text. Later, when witnesses started to die, they started to write down their stories in order not to be forgotten. (not only the disciples, but all who saw him resurrected 1.Kor 15:3-6)
The best evidence that something really happened is the way that God did something. That way is unusual, weird, odd, without the glory- SO NO HUMAN CAN MAKE IT UP:
- Jews was waiting for the superhero God to rescue them, but God gave his Son to suffer and die on a cross instead.
- Women were the first who found out that Jesus is not in the grave anymore, and he showed himself to the Mary before he showed to disciples. If a human would make up such story, he would write that men were the first at the grave. At that time, women were irrelevant in the society. And yet, Jesus showed himself first to one them.
- etc...
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That's fine, and I might even agree, but the way you describe it is not really evidence for an atheist. They don't care whether there is a spectacular event or not. What they should care about is what secular scholars say about the evidence. And that's really the grounding for the Minimal Facts approach.
 
QuickTwist said:
That's fine, and I might even agree, but the way you describe it is not really evidence for an atheist. They don't care whether there is a spectacular event or not. What they should care about is what secular scholars say about the evidence. And that's really the grounding for the Minimal Facts approach.
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There is no material evidence. There are at least 3 reasons why: First, even if there was, someone would tell - it is a fake, or how we can be sure that it is real? And even if Jesus himself would reveal to an atheist- how would one be sure that this is really Jesus? That's why Christianity don' t rely on material evidence, but on the Word, which became flesh. (John 1). And we have witnesess of the Word. All disciples later died as martyrs, voluntarily and freely accepted death because of what they saw walking with Jesus. Second, if there was material evidence, people would start to worship it, instead of the Lord. Third, therefore the Word of God is able to travel faster around the world. That' s why we have description of the faith ( Heb 11:1 "Now faith is confidrnce in what we hope for and the assurance about we don' t see").
With His blessings.
 
regrat said:
There is no material evidence. There are at least 3 reasons why: First, even if there was, someone would tell - it is a fake, or how we can be sure that it is real? And even if Jesus himself would reveal to an atheist- how would one be sure that this is really Jesus? That's why Christianity don' t rely on material evidence, but on the Word, which became flesh. (John 1). And we have witnesess of the Word. All disciples later died as martyrs, voluntarily and freely accepted death because of what they saw walking with Jesus. Second, if there was material evidence, people would start to worship it, instead of the Lord. Third, therefore the Word of God is able to travel faster around the world. That' s why we have description of the faith ( Heb 11:1 "Now faith is confidrnce in what we hope for and the assurance about we don' t see").
With His blessings.
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The written Word is effectively used as evidence.

John 20:30-31 ESV
"Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name."

The written Word IS evidence based on eyewitness testimony.
 
QuickTwist said:
The written Word is effectively used as evidence.

John 20:30-31 ESV
"Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name."

The written Word IS evidence based on eyewitness testimony.
Click to expand...
That' s right! And please, notice (whoever read this), that nowadays Christianity is a minor religion in the Middle East (don't worry for that, God has control. The seed is still there, waits to be watered) where it is founded. Because the Word is fluent, and it is spreaded worldwide. We are shown that we shouldn't worship places, things or His creatures.
And dear INFJ community, always remember: if it is given to us an ability to see a bigger picture, many different perspectives, to understand depth of happenings around us- how bigger is the Lord' s perspective and the picture, and how deep is His meaning.
Keep on searching, asking question, reading the Bible, loving God, yourselves and your neighbours. Jesus loves you all 🧡
 
Misty said:
This is a thread about the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Or did you not see the title?
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You have missed the point. Simply pasting a slogan or sound bite with no explanation is mildly irritating. But when it's presented in enormous 50 point font, it becomes much more so. This has nothing to do with your belief in the resurrection. I'm perfectly okay with the fact that you believe that. The issue is social appropriateness. Most people recognize that shouting a bare assertion without any reasoning or discussion is not an effective or considerate way to communicate. I don't think you realize how your presentation comes across to other people.
Misty said:
I know, reading the Bible is hard, and apparently thread titles too.
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Funny, I don't find the Bible hard at all.
 
meowzician said:
I don't think you realize how your presentation comes across to other people.

Funny, I don't find the Bible hard at all.
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I feel precisely the same way.

If you have read the Bible then you should know I did not post a “slogan”.. I posted a poignant bible verse which was fitting of the topic and chose not expound upon it because it speaks for itself.

I found it tone deaf the way you entered the thread to teach us what is true and not true according to your faith, correcting the Christians who were calmly discussing the topic of Jesus and the resurrection to tell them that Jesus was just a nice Jewish man.

Thus my response.

If you find bible verses about Jesus being the Son Of God - sent to die and be resurrected as payment for the sins of mankind offensive when presented in bold print, then next time I will quote the saviors words in a smaller font.
 
Misty said:
I feel precisely the same way.

If you have read the Bible then you should know I did not post a “slogan”.. I posted a poignant bible verse which was fitting of the topic and chose not expound upon it because it speaks for itself.
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When you thrown out a Bible verse with no explanation or context, you are using it like a slogan. It's like going to the ballgame and someone holds up a sign that says John 3:16--they have reduced the verse to bumper sticker or billboard level. If you don't see it, then you don't see it.
Misty said:
I found it tone deaf the way you entered the thread to teach us what is true and not true according to your faith, correcting the Christians who were calmly discussing the topic of Jesus and the resurrection to tell them that Jesus was just a nice Jewish man.
Click to expand...
I wasn't aware this was a Christians only thread. It doesn't appear to be in a Christians only forum. If there is something I don't know, if I have broken a rule or something, please let me know.

Otherwise, I think you need to adjust to the fact of life that many people are not Christians and not only do they not see things your way, they actually see them a different way. They have just as much right to contribute to a thread as you.
Misty said:
Thus my response.

If you find bible verses about Jesus being the Son Of God - sent to die and be resurrected as payment for the sins of mankind offensive when presented in bold print, then next time I will quote the saviors words in a smaller font.
Click to expand...
Offensive? Oh, no. Not at all. It wasn't the Bible verse that was offensive. It was your delivery.
 
meowzician said:
When you thrown out a Bible verse with no explanation or context, you are using it like a slogan. It's like going to the ballgame and someone holds up a sign that says John 3:16--they have reduced the verse to bumper sticker or billboard level. If you don't see it, then you don't see it.

I wasn't aware this was a Christians only thread. It doesn't appear to be in a Christians only forum. If there is something I don't know, if I have broken a rule or something, please let me know.

Otherwise, I think you need to adjust to the fact of life that many people are not Christians and not only do they not see things your way, they actually see them a different way. They have just as much right to contribute to a thread as you.

Offensive? Oh, no. Not at all. It wasn't the Bible verse that was offensive. It was your delivery.
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You missed the message entirely. Clearly.

I have no issue with anyone having a different faith or with you following Judaism. What I have an issue with is that every time someone says they believe Jesus is the Son of God who died for our salvation you fly in on your umbrella like Mary Poppins to sing us all a lesson on how wrong we are and that Jesus was just a nice man - which the word of God absolutely destroys.

You aren’t our teacher, Meow.
 
Misty said:
What I have an issue with is that every time someone says they believe Jesus is the Son of God who died for our salvation you fly in on your umbrella like Mary Poppins
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OMG. I don't think I can count the number of times I explicitly state in here that I'm absolutely fine with individuals being Christian--something most Christians are not willing to say of Jews. But I guess that's not good enough. I must also muzzle my thoughts and not express anything that challenges Christians. Got it. Thank you for explaining it to me.
 
meowzician said:
OMG. I don't think I can count the number of times I explicitly state in here that I'm absolutely fine with individuals being Christian--something most Christians are not willing to say of Jews. But I guess that's not good enough. I must also muzzle my thoughts and not express anything that challenges Christians. Got it. Thank you for explaining it to me.
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You totally understood me .. . 🙄

I’ve grown bored trying to explain my thoughts here so now I think I’ll just Hush..🤫
 
Misty said:
You’re welcome
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Our conversation is over, Misty. There is nothing productive about it in the slightest, and I don't waste time with conversations that only go around in circles. Believe it or not, I really do wish you the very best. May you, with God's help, become the very best Christian you can be.
 
meowzician said:
Our conversation is over, Misty. There is nothing productive about it in the slightest, and I don't waste time with conversations that only go around in circles. Believe it or not, I really do wish you the very best. May you, with God's help, become the very best Christian you can be.
Click to expand...
Thanks, and have a lovely evening. 👍🏼
 
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