1 in 6 Americans in poverty?

prankster said:
Well, I was wondering the exact same thing. What does make America different?

Patriotism? What about France? I think they're one of the most patriotic populations out there.
Or Japan?

The American dream is just having 2 kids, a house, a garden and preferably two cars.
How is America the only country where people want these things?
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:m049: NOT TRUE! That is a dream many have but The American dream is different and special for every person.

Yeaaa france and Japan... Nope, its not like the US at all. I agree France has some of that patriotic spirit but still its very different from the American way, or do you think they are the same?

I ask you what makes America different because you think everything I bring up is not specific for the US. So then you find, break down and analyse what makes it different? Because there is hell of a something making it different from the rest of the world... So I'm interested to hear what you find and I hope you know we are not talking case to case facts and realism.
 
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Pristinegirl said:
:m049: NOT TRUE! That is a dream many have but The American dream is different and special for every person.

Yeaaa france and Japan... Nope, its not like the US at all. I agree France has some of that patriotic spirit but still its very different from the American way, or do you think they are the same?

I ask you what makes America different because you think everything I bring up is not specific for the US. So then you find, break down and analyse what makes it different? Because there is hell of a something making it different from the rest of the world... So I'm interested to hear what you find and I hope you know we are not talking case to case facts and realism.
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I wouldn't dare bringing in facts, because after all, they don't represent the truth.
So the American Dream is different for every person?
Then it's just that people have dreams and ideals there.
Tell me, in what country are there people who don't have dreams or ideals?
I think it's harder to find someone without them than someone with them.

And no, I won't mention all the Blind Bandit has mentioned, but you can't ignore some things, how annoying they might be.
 
prankster said:
I wouldn't dare bringing in facts, because after all, they don't represent the truth.
So the American Dream is different for every person?
Then it's just that people have dreams and ideals there.
Tell me, in what country are there people who don't have dreams or ideals?
I think it's harder to find someone without them than someone with them.

And no, I won't mention all the Blind Bandit has mentioned, but you can't ignore some things, how annoying they might be.
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I was not implying the things Blind Bandit said as facts and realism just so you know. I just stated I don't want 'case to case' I want the overall.

Now you assumed that because they are different from person to person, it must mean they are regular dreams and ideals... I mean come on, no ones dream is the same as the others. What distinguishes the American dreams is that they are dreams that are possible and capable of comming true, in America.

I think that there are quite a few countries who don't have dreams. I also think that there are those countries whose inhabitants dream that little dream yet don't stand a chance at pursuing it in their country...

I think you would be surprised how many don't have dreams actually... Overall looking at a country it is not so hard finding those countries who don't have dreams.
 
I thought the American Dream was a general dream. So did google btw.

But it's false that dreams are only possible to come true in America.
And I didn't say that America was different than other western countries, you did.
So I'm not going to try and prove that it's different, because that's what I asked you.

Why do you think America is the only country that has dreams and ideals?
Okay, they don't air shows about how awesome Belgium is..
Or the newspapers don't tell you about the Belgian, Dutch, ... in Afghanistan, rather protecting the people than using offense.
 
Blind Bandit said:
I've lived in Indianapolis seen the poor areas of town. Hell my town is pretty much a blue collar town with a few nice areas. I've worked with the homeless and down trodden.

I've lived poor and I know the fact that many are homeless here.

If you going to argue your country which most wouldn't consider to have problems. Has issues and sucks why do you think America of all places is any better.

The American dream doesn't exist its wishful thinking every American uses to get through their day.

Hardly anyone actually makes it happen. Especially when you count poverty stricken folks.

This country is no better and much worse than others.

You need to wake up. America sucks just as much as any other country and as fair as wester countries go its ass backward.

If our country was so great so called the greatest country ever. We wouldn't have so many poor, and homeless with people telling them they just need to work harder.

I'm so sick of the pro American propaganda that masses just eat up.

This country sucks and doesn't take care of its people. No matter how much its people take care of it.

Oh and for the record I'm a patriot but I'm remember how to be a patriot and not live my life on blind faith and the idea that a true patriot cares what his government dose and questions his country when it strays from what is right and good for its people. And not just its top 1 percent.

So when you do visit take off the propaganda and really look and see if you think this country is still so great.

Its about time people wake up!
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Satya said:
An interesting thing happened to one of my good friend's parents the first time they visited America. They were mugged.

There is honest opportunity in Ameirca. However, there is considerably more dishonest opportunity.

As far as America being a country where you can act, think, or speak without external constraint, you will find that most Americans choose to remain ignorant and lead very non confrontational lives out of fear. It may be fear of losing their jobs, fear of being ostracized by their specific group or social class, fear of being victimized, or whatver, but fear exists as a very evident part of this country and it inhibits freedom a great deal.

With that in mind, enjoy your trip.
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Everyone seems to think that just because I think America is great, then I must include poverty or forsee it. I think that the recent years of an increasing lack of faith in the American dream is one of the reasons to the falling of America.

There is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right with America.

I mean I'm not stupid of course I will look and be willing to see and not have a selective attention. But if at the end I still come out liking America - then it STILL won't be good enough for anyone... In other words no one will be happy untill they've ripped and antagonized my perspective to theirs?
 
Or it could be that when you claim that America is the only idealistic nation, you're starting a discussion.

If you don't make such claims, people wouldn't argue about it.
Don't you secretly like it? Being different than most people, having to fight for what you believe, ...
 
prankster said:
I thought the American Dream was a general dream. So did google btw.

But it's false that dreams are only possible to come true in America.
And I didn't say that America was different than other western countries, you did.
So I'm not going to try and prove that it's different, because that's what I asked you.

Why do you think America is the only country that has dreams and ideals?
Okay, they don't air shows about how awesome Belgium is..
Or the newspapers don't tell you about the Belgian, Dutch, ... in Afghanistan, rather protecting the people than using offense.
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THAT is not what I said, I said the American dream is the pursit of your dream in AMERICA, not all dreams... AND I never said that America is the only who has dreams and ideals either I said they were the only idealistic nation, in which I explained earlier:
"Idealism is the representation of things in their 'Ideal' form, how they should be as opposed to a Realist point of view, looking at things how they are.
"
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Pristinegirl said:
Everyone seems to think that just because I think America is great, then I must include poverty or forsee it. I think that the recent years of an increasing lack of faith in the American dream is one of the reasons to the falling of America.

There is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right with America.

I mean I'm not stupid of course I will look and be willing to see and not have a selective attention. But if at the end I still come out liking America - then it STILL won't be good enough for anyone... In other words no one will be happy untill they've ripped and antagonized my perspective to theirs?
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If thats what you truly think then you are missing the point that is right in front of everyones face.

The American dream is not the problem in America. will it is a problem, but not the problem of why America is/ has been degrading.

But I'm done with this I'm trying to make sense of something that people refuse to look at realistically
 
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Blind Bandit said:
If thats what you truly think then you are missing the point that is right in front of everyones face.

The American dream is not the problem in America. will it is a problem, but not the problem of why America is/ has been degrading.

But I'm done with this I'm trying to make sense of something that people look at realistically
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No! Everybody in America believes in it and is idealistic!
What does it matter that America is degrading?
They can still dream!

Like.. dreaming when you're dying at the entrance of a hospital because you can't get a treatment, you're insurance company doesn't allow you to go to that hospital.

And yes, I know they'll change it. But do you know where that money will come from?
T-t-t-taxes!
 
Blind Bandit said:
This country is no better and much worse than others.
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You really shouldn't counter an overly bright view of America with an exaggeratedly dim one. Yes, we have poor people; we can't escape the bell curve. But on the world's curve, we happen to be on the high end (our poor have amenities on par with the rich of many other countries). And yes, our political system has problems; no government can remain corruption-free for long. But of the world's governments, ours is remarkable for its stability and fairness.
 
TheLastMohican said:
You really shouldn't counter an overly bright view of America with an exaggeratedly dim one. Yes, we have poor people; we can't escape the bell curve. But on the world's curve, we happen to be on the high end (our poor have amenities on par with the rich of many other countries). And yes, our political system has problems; no government can remain corruption-free for long. But of the world's governments, ours is remarkable for its stability and fairness.
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I think the confusion comes in when it's not clear whether America is being compared to all countries including Third World countries, or when it is being compared to other developed nations. Big difference.

Regarding the American Dream - it basically means that people in general have access to upward mobility. The mistake is made when this is assumed to mean that any person can achieve any level of success. That's the part with which I disagree. Going from poverty to wealth is not typically realistic no matter how hard a person works. The culture of "The Secret", the prosperity gospel, and the assumption that our minds can recreate reality is problematic. It results in those who are in need using imaginary tools to solve their problems, and the elite to revel in their success as being wholly the result of self. Both views perpetuate class divisions.
 
Julia said:
I think the confusion comes in when it's not clear whether America is being compared to all countries including Third World countries, or when it is being compared to other developed nations. Big difference.
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True, when compared to other developed nations, the advantages of the U.S. are primarily found in the Constitution, rather than our level of prosperity.
We don't compare poorly with developed countries economically either, however. The U.S. provides 22% of the UN's budget (the maximum allowed — we used to provide 25%, the previous maximum) and provides most of its military power, while having lower tax rates.
 
TheLastMohican said:
You really shouldn't counter an overly bright view of America with an exaggeratedly dim one. Yes, we have poor people; we can't escape the bell curve. But on the world's curve, we happen to be on the high end (our poor have amenities on par with the rich of many other countries). And yes, our political system has problems; no government can remain corruption-free for long. But of the world's governments, ours is remarkable for its stability and fairness.
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I'm not casting a shadow I'm being real. I'm not saying people can't do great things from nothing but its a lot harder than the American dream would assert.

Oh and I should mentioned I was mostly referring to developed nations.

Julia said:
I think the confusion comes in when it's not clear whether America is being compared to all countries including Third World countries, or when it is being compared to other developed nations. Big difference.

Regarding the American Dream - it basically means that people in general have access to upward mobility. The mistake is made when this is assumed to mean that any person can achieve any level of success. That's the part with which I disagree. Going from poverty to wealth is not typically realistic no matter how hard a person works. The culture of "The Secret", the prosperity gospel, and the assumption that our minds can recreate reality is problematic. It results in those who are in need using imaginary tools to solve their problems, and the elite to revel in their success as being wholly the result of self. Both views perpetuate class divisions.
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Yes exactly thank you for pointing out what I meant.
 
I still think that a lot of people's view of America is much to pessimistic. Yeah, it's hard to get out of poverty; that's true no matter where you are. And we have more poverty now because of the recession, which makes sense. Quite frankly, there's no guarantee that the overall view of life is better in a different country -- that's just wishful thinking.

In other words, yeah, some things suck. But let's be realistic -- we have some things that others don't too. I've been on both sides; I've lived in America and seen it from a outside point of view. It's really got some merit to it.

As for making oneself, I'd have to say the American dream still exists. Both of my parents came from huge families, not in great standings -- my mom comes from a farming family and my dad's just wasn't well off. They made themselves. It is possible, if the person is willing to take the steps and make the sacrifices. In that case, the country can't save you. A lot of it is up to the individual.

And that's the hardest thing to accept, I think.
 
Pristinegirl said:
I'm going to AMERICA in early december :m124::m204::m055::mf:
Sometimes people call me an idealist and thats fine because the skies of happiness shine upon where I belong; America, the only idealistic nation in the world!!

Either way I just wanted to say that I will pay extra close attention to these issues and realisticly see reality for myself.
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Where in the US?

prankster said:
Well, I was wondering the exact same thing. What does make America different?

Patriotism? What about France? I think they're one of the most patriotic populations out there.
Or Japan?

The American dream is just having 2 kids, a house, a garden and preferably two cars.
How is America the only country where people want these things?
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That is NOT the American Dream, the American Dream is that you can pursue any destiny you want so long as it isnt too harmful to others. The 2 kids a house and a garden is the most stereotypical BS I have ever heard, thats not *MY* or anyone else I know American dream.

Pristinegirl said:
:m049: NOT TRUE! That is a dream many have but The American dream is different and special for every person.

Yeaaa france and Japan... Nope, its not like the US at all. I agree France has some of that patriotic spirit but still its very different from the American way, or do you think they are the same?

I ask you what makes America different because you think everything I bring up is not specific for the US. So then you find, break down and analyse what makes it different? Because there is hell of a something making it different from the rest of the world... So I'm interested to hear what you find and I hope you know we are not talking case to case facts and realism.
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America is like any other nation in Western Europe, its got a great and rich history and wealth of opporitunity but it is also loaded with angry self hating psychotic liberals who will do all they can to tar and feather thier country. DO NOT THINK THIS IS ALL OF AMERICA! Its not, they are just the loud outspoken minority.

The US is a fantastic nation and *I* have traveled across the world and I can tell you that the standard of living in the USA as long as you are willing to work for it is the highest in the world aside from maybe Japan.

We have our problems as any other nation does, but the US is still the home of economic opportunity. Think of it this way, the more angry liberals you see waiting for a hand out the better up front, it means less competition towards making your own mark on the world. Afterall someone has to clean up the floors and pick up trash and do shitty jobs no one else wants.

Blind Bandit said:
If thats what you truly think then you are missing the point that is right in front of everyones face.

The American dream is not the problem in America. will it is a problem, but not the problem of why America is/ has been degrading.

But I'm done with this I'm trying to make sense of something that people refuse to look at realistically
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What are you talking about? You arent looking at things realistically, you want to trash the US because of your personal feelings towards politics etc, not because of of any real truth. Have you even seen how the rest of the world lives? If you havent I suggest you give it a shot then tell me how much you hate the united states.

prankster said:
No! Everybody in America believes in it and is idealistic!
What does it matter that America is degrading?
They can still dream!

Like.. dreaming when you're dying at the entrance of a hospital because you can't get a treatment, you're insurance company doesn't allow you to go to that hospital.

And yes, I know they'll change it. But do you know where that money will come from?
T-t-t-taxes!
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Untrue, it is illegal for a hospital to turn someone away who is dying and needs medical attention. The dying in waiting rooms happens in socialized medicine countries.
 
Billy said:
Untrue, it is illegal for a hospital to turn someone away who is dying and needs medical attention. The dying in waiting rooms happens in socialized medicine countries.
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Have you seen sicko?
 
Oh yea, I was just saying that America might not be the greatest place to live.
I didn't say it's the worst, but there might be better.
I think in all West-European countries you can climb to the top.

We might not have fancy words for it, but hey..

Okay. You want to live in America. Good for you. But you can't claim that it's the best country ever.
It might be perfect for you, but it's subjective.

There.
 
Boo America.
 
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