Absolute morality

[BostonAndy]

in an absolute world, full of literal ideology these are the things that the bible would call on the faithful to kill his fellow man for.....


Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT

)

Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

I don't think that's a code anyone here can say they lived up to absolutely without going to prison for.

SOOOO.......

I'd say its rather subjective

 

[Nixie]

in an absolute world, full of literal ideology these are the things that the bible would call on the faithful to kill his fellow man for.....


I don't think that's a code anyone here can say they lived up to absolutely without going to prison for.

SOOOO.......

I'd say its rather subjective

Not to be picky, but only if you to subscribe judeo-christian mythology. <okay, so it is picky!>

edit: I would agree that morality is subjective as stated by others. My point is that the example applies to those who call themselves Christians and not the blanket "anyone".

 

[Barnabas]

in an absolute world, full of literal ideology these are the things that the bible would call on the faithful to kill his fellow man for.....


Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
)


Kill Witches


Kill Homosexuals


Kill Fortunetellers


Death for Hitting Dad


Death for Cursing Parents


Death for Adultery


Death for Fornication


Death to Followers of Other Religions


Kill Nonbelievers


Kill False Prophets


Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God


Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night


Kill Followers of Other Religions.


Death for Blasphemy


Kill False Prophets




Infidels and Gays Should Die


Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle


Kill People for Working on the Sabbath


I don't think that's a code anyone here can say they lived up to absolutely without going to prison for.

SOOOO.......

I'd say its rather subjective

There is so much wrong with this post that I don't even want to begin to take it apart.

 

[IndigoSensor]

Morality for the most part is subjective. If it weren't, we would all have the same opinions on morality.

 

[Jack]

Morality for the most part is subjective. If it weren't, we would all have the same opinions on morality.

What if we do, deep down, but due to our conditioning, we express it differently. Isn't it interesting after all that the Categorical imperative, the Golden Rule, Whatever you want to call it, is so universal?

 

[IndigoSensor]

What if we do, deep down, but due to our conditioning, we express it differently. Isn't it interesting after all that the Categorical imperative, the Golden Rule, Whatever you want to call it, is so universal?

Yes, but not everyone holds that value.

 

[Jack]

Yes, but not everyone holds that value.

Not consciously at least.

 

[BostonAndy]

Morality for the most part is subjective. If it weren't, we would all have the same opinions on morality.

My thoughts exactly

so much is about who raised you and what your adult experiences are.

 

[BostonAndy]

There is so much wrong with this post that I don't even want to begin to take it apart.

No?

you don't prefer Bible verse?

 

[KazeCraven]

No?

you don't prefer Bible verse?

I didn't check which ones you quoted, but I know enough about Christianity to say that the Old Testament doesn't apply anymore. If you quoted from the New Testament, those still stand as far as I know.

Reason being that somebody gave a new covenant somewhere, and now anything in the New Testament that conflicts with the Old Testament is overridden by the teachings in the New Testament.

 

[just me]

There is so much wrong with this post that I don't even want to begin to take it apart.

It is a thought based on Old Testament, not new. Christianity does not live by old alone.

 

[just me]

I think we fail to see our rather broad generalization of things here used. Isn't it possible there may be specific accepted moral truths, though many others can be subjective?

 

[BostonAndy]

I didn't check which ones you quoted, but I know enough about Christianity to say that the Old Testament doesn't apply anymore. If you quoted from the New Testament, those still stand as far as I know.

Reason being that somebody gave a new covenant somewhere, and now anything in the New Testament that conflicts with the Old Testament is overridden by the teachings in the New Testament.

It is a thought based on Old Testament, not new. Christianity does not live by old alone.

so then morality is subjective.

The old testament is used by some faiths, like catholicism, and other more fundamental christian movements only use the new testament.

 

[just me]

so then morality is subjective.

The old testament is used by some faiths, like catholicism, and other more fundamental christian movements only use the new testament.

Catholics use both as Christians, though reflect the New Covenant.

What do you base your answer on? I think morality is not based solely on religion.

sidenote: Is your dog a grey ghost?

 

[Soulful]

Do you believe in absolute morality, or are you of the opinion that morality is always subjective? At the heart of it, are there fundamentally right and wrong ways to live life?

I don't think I believe in absolute morality. I know sometimes we use the words 'right'/'wrong' to represent more complex feelings and ideas, but when used literally, I find them ineffective and distant from reality. For example, I think words such as hurtful/helpful, respectful/disrespectful, ignorant/aware, caring/uncaring, considerate/inconsiderate are much more accurate descriptors of speech/conduct/outcomes. Those words seem extremely weak in comparison to 'right'/'wrong', though. Maybe we use 'right' and 'wrong' to indicate a strong indignation whenever a fundamental human need or right is violated, but it's not often that simple.

We might also say something is wrong if most people feel they would have to violate or suppress a fundamental aspect of human nature to perform an act (or sometimes, to feel a certain way). However, this can result in normalization and lead to oppression if a small group of people experiences a reality separate from a majority that does not understand or accept subjectivity.

There are aspects of morality most people are in agreement with, but even then it's not absolute. Ex. Most healthy/well-functioning persons would agree that murder not done out of self-defense is 'wrong' (or, some version of not okay). However, throw abortion into the mix and the argument becomes infinitely more complicated and controversial. Something that should be as simple as right/wrong suddenly isn't; only, it seems that rather than view it in that way, many people think the other party('s belief) is right/wrong.

 

[aeon]

My sense is that morality depends on the context between and among the "parties" in question, including both their external relationships and internal value systems. As such, I think morality is subjective, and cannot manifest as an absolute.


cheers,
Ian

 

[just me]

My sense is that morality depends on the context between and among the "parties" in question, including both their external relationships and internal value systems. As such, I think morality is subjective, and cannot manifest as an absolute.


cheers,
Ian

Just curious of your sense if it were just one person?

 

[Billy]

IMO Subjective.

 

[aeon]

Just curious of your sense if it were just one person?

If it were just one person, and nothing and no one else, then no contextual relationships would exist, and therefore no questions of morality either.

Unless, of course, you consider the person and that person's idea of themself as two separate things, each with its own freedom to choose, then I suppose there may be questions of morality as it concerns how said person treats themselves, but that gets somewhat esoteric.


cheers,
Ian

 

[BostonAndy]

Catholics use both as Christians, though reflect the New Covenant.

What do you base your answer on? I think morality is not based solely on religion.

sidenote: Is your dog a grey ghost?

I merely am trying to point out that the majority in america think america is a christian nation, and there are fundamentalist christians in that crowd that take it very seriously.

It is a diverse religion, and as I posted, no matter how fundamental and adherent you MAY think you are, IF you are, you are probably NOT in compliance with what american LAW calls morality.

No matter how you look at it, there are discrepancies that MAKE one realize that morality is subjective, and reliant upon an individuals world view and wisdom gained through personal experience.

I have found that the people that have little experience in life, either through are or through leading a sheltered life, tend to view the world in a very black and white perspective.

A life well lived, leads you to understand that millions of Buddists are not bad people and wont burn in everlasting hell for not accepting christ as their personal savior.

And there are even MORe divergent ideologies out there than that...

Morality is extremely subjective and for MANY reasons IMO.

EDIT TO ADD: yeppers she is a grey ghost... Technically called a Wemaraner. She is also the center of my universe...lol