Addressing Issues to Friend

Trifoilum

Trifoilum

find wisdom, build hope.
MBTI
INFJ
Enneagram
6w5
I need some help in addressing an issue of my good friend;
(for privacy reason I'd rather not expunge on the details here, so I'm just giving the gist and my planned approach and/or order)

I, for one, have no idea what to do about your experience and what had happened; and I really am sorry to hear the entire thing; no one should experience that, much less you. I see you exploded, I see you burned with anger, I've been there. It happens; that's an issue I have no rights to complain about and I would very much love to see you be better. That hasn't changed and wouldn't.

For the catalyst itself, I have no words; it's a neutral thing for me, but I can see how it may have offended you. The issue is beyond that.

I'm talking about your actions now. To me, to other people. I'd mentioned what I'm seeing; that the grudge you're holding is burning you alive. One thing I'd like to add is that from what I'm seeing, this grudge is not something isolated. It's spreading around, it's corrupting your perspective, actions and reactions. A humane thing, but it's still really unhealthy regardless of the reason, especially due to your circumstances.

Worse being that instead of working on the issue you kept asking for people to not hurt you; to not offend you. I understand raising boundaries and I don't find this healthy for all parties. This is being paranoid; being mistrustful. And I also understand that your circumstances is very chaotic to work properly on them.

....It's just impossible to sate, at this point. It's not my place to say you should or should not keep the grudge. However for me, after a certain point, I cannot expect everyone to constantly tiptoe around that issue or the resulting scars. And after a certain point, the responsibility of someone's actions and reactions and the resulting fallout will fall on ourselves. (And I can speak from the other side as well)

Looking retrospectively, I can see how this may have changed the way you see things, and for not seeing it faster, I'm sorry. But looking directly of what happened, I'm telling you that you're being pretty much unreasonably circling on self victimization.
I cannot, should not, would not and do not have any power or right to tell you on what to do, but I'm honestly concerned about your overall mentality at this point.

What do you think? I noticed the overabundance of I statements even in this generalized roughline; I don't want to make her feel threatened or victimized. Honestly, I can't even be sure she won't be offended over this.
(FYI; the person in question is an ISFP with a predilection for feeling victimized; which is a minefield to say the least.)

(calling some voices of sanity [MENTION=2578]Kgal[/MENTION] [MENTION=3096]Stormy1[/MENTION] [MENTION=1360]TheDaringHatTrick[/MENTION])
 
OTOH, a certain part of me want to go straight for a no pulled punch and said;

You're using your past, trust and abandonment issues as rationalization for choking us, and it hurts; it hurts more because we're not the target.
But that's only my feelings talking.
 
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Dude.... I have absolutely no clue. I haven't had to face this stuff. I know, I've said this before, but I'll keep you in my prayers. It seems like you've had quite the tough life, and... honestly, it's moving. I don't know what advice to give, but know we're all here for you.

On a side note, I've only been here a day, but it feels like I can really openly talk about this kind of stuff. I'd like to thank you, and everyone else, for making this all feel so open.

Anyways - on what I can provide - just speak your heart. And it's good that you're writing it down beforehand - that helps me sort things out. Be genuine, and if they really do have abandonment or trust issues, ask them to go somewhere with you. Go out and buy 'em a slushy, watch a movie, play a game, and remind them that above all you care.
 
My impression is that this is much too formal and, although no one here in their right mind would accuse you (of all people) of clambering onto your high-horse, it sounds like you're talking down to your friend. Considering she's in a very emotional place right now, it's likely that they might take this that way. I think you're better off just saying what needs to be said in the most succinct and straight-forward way possible. Preferably in person or over Skype. She'll probably be upset with you whatever you do, of course, but at least speaking in person allows you to clear up any misconceptions she makes about your intentions in real time instead of leaving her to re-read and mull over the letter and find more reasons to feel sorry for herself.

That's my take on it, anyway.
 
It depends Tri.
Not knowing anything specific, all I have is general information. First, does it have to be said? Sometimes we get caught up in the IDEA (especially you feelers) that we NEED to say something. If they are truly a sensor, how do you know they still remember whatever it is (or understand it has impact) after the fact? Seems like you need to work on being able to say what you want/need to say instead of stewing (worrying, being upset, pondering) over stuff AFTER the fact. Not everyone feels the need to revisit stuff. Additionally, when you wait, you give time a chance to cloud the issue (no, that isn't what I said) and you make the other person wonder what else you secretly harbor against them. Besides, by talking about crap RIGHT THEN AND THERE, you avoid the pitfall of then obssessing about what you want to say and your own hurt feelings.

Again, with any of my advice...the change you seek starts with you...not them.
 
I'm probably not a voice of sanity but I have a feeling she'd be offended. It all sounds very honest, which is a good thing, but too much information at once. If I seriously felt there was a need for it I'd rather go bits by bits over extended period of time instead of pouring it. It looks like a safer choice to me IF you really feel there's need. But it's only the way I see it...
 
I do not recommend you take any action such as this....at all.

The only appropriate response is to love her unconditionally.

First of all ...this is her ordeal....this is her pain. As much as you are empathetic and care deeply for her and know her well - maybe even better than she knows herself - she has to come to terms with her pain in her own time...in her own way. When we take actions such as you propose in this written statement - we are negating their experience - we are challenging the validity of their experience - and there is no way on this earth we can truly understand their experience

Second of all. ....You are correct in your assessment that as long as she holds on to the injustice done to her - she will always be playing the victim and will suffer long and hard. Her thoughts about her victimization ordeal ingrains the painful emotions deeply into the heart and mind and the internal wound becomes harder to heal. It's very sad to watch it happen because you know that person will be unhappy for a long time. I am happy to see you deepening your awareness of others and that you recognize this aspect of being human in today's world. :hug:

Now....this is the key:

If you push against a person even in writing - or - argue vehemently with them that they are ignorant or stupid or blind - or - slap them in the face and demand respect....

...then all these kinds of actions do is cause the person to dig their heels in and entrench themselves in a defensive position...and then they stay stuck.

I highly encourage you to listen to your friend without judgment. This means don't judge her emotions. Don't judge her views on the ordeal. Don't judge whether she should be getting over this by now. Don't judge her ordeal as whether it was valid or not - or even if it was horrific or not.

Just keep affirming to her that you are very sorry she went through this and let her grief process itself as it will. The grief process includes being angry or being depressed or being cold and aloof. It is always helpful for me to view the person as being trapped in their little child mode....like maybe 6 to 8 years old. If a child came to you crying... wouldn't you naturally want to enfold them in a big hug - stroke their hair - and tell them they are wonderful? This is an example of unconditional love.

Do this for your friend. As long as you don't try to negate their experience in any way - you will find them finally accepting it and allowing the emotional crap to surface - and then their wound will begin to heal.

I wish you success Tri. :love:
Namaste'
 
*nods* Thank goodness it seems I made a right choice of posting.
You guys all made wise perspective; thank you! I was too blinded by the storm to see clearly whether this was offending or not; and the prudence of it.
Kgal said:
I highly encourage you to listen to your friend without judgment. This means don't judge her emotions. Don't judge her views on the ordeal. Don't judge whether she should be getting over this by now. Don't judge her ordeal as whether it was valid or not - or even if it was horrific or not.
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Yes, that was not my intention at all; It's more the way she acts on her emotions, it affected me and people around her.

I don't want to invalidate her feelings or experience; but at the same time GFJHASJHAJSJASAKJWKJAKLEJKLDJKLASJKAL
And there is a thought that I needed to act fast.

Do this for your friend. As long as you don't try to negate their experience in any way - you will find them finally accepting it and allowing the emotional crap to surface - and then their wound will begin to heal.

I wish you success Tri. :love:
Namaste'
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I will keep trying, but whether the wound to close or not; I honestly dunno;
1) It's been like, 6 years? 5? (I know that her circumstances doesn't help the wound to close any further, but that's like a pileup of scars)
2) She has said she doesn't want the wound to close; not until her tormentor begs for forgiveness.
But that sounds like a rationalization.

I don't know. At this time there is just no reaction. Rather than indifference, it's more watching a meteor shower; inevitable.

And it's confusing. She's pretty much deserving in her pain, but in my head, it's like this state of her has becoming a new equilibrium of her mentality, and while I think this particular explosion probably exposed her emotional crap on surface.. I dunno.

But as far as the message itself, I guess it's a no-go?

And for me, I know how it feels to be the perpetrator; as someone who screams they are hurt, but refused to take care of it.... And feeling it from the other perspective has been quite a shocking experience since few years back. This particular update probably serves as another lesson; a conclusion on potentials.
 
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[MENTION=2172]Trifoilum[/MENTION]

The problem with your approach is that it's all about you. Just look at how very many times you used the personal pronoun 'I'.



Instead of trying to get your friend to understand your perspective - you probably first need to show that you have heard and understand her/him, according to her perspective, not your perspective.
 
[MENTION=2172]Trifoilum[/MENTION] I see where you're coming from. You obviously want to help her. I had that when my heart was bleeding for someone, I wanted her to open her eyes, start taking actions but she didn't want her circle to break. I'm afraid for people with this mindset there's no in-your-face way you, as a friend, can help. Maybe some third party, like a therapist(?). She might think you have a problem with her and start feeling guilty(?) even if you see no reason for that.
If you just want to help and it's about her only, I'd say leave it :( Many people react very poorly to confrontations of any kind.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
@Trifoilum

The problem with your approach is that it's all about you. Just look at how very many times you used the personal pronoun 'I'.



Instead of trying to get your friend to understand your perspective - you probably first need to show that you have heard and understand her/him, according to her perspective, not your perspective.
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Won't using you a lot makes it accusing, on the other hand? Not defending, just curious.

On the other hand, it sort of tells, if not my perspective; then at least how many of it was something I'm seeing.
 
Trifoilum said:
Won't using you a lot makes it accusing, on the other hand? Not defending, just curious.

On the other hand, it sort of tells, if not my perspective; then at least how many of it was something I'm seeing.
Click to expand...
Not having a go at you. Just something a friend told me a long time ago (who was studying counseling) told me: that distraught people cannot communicate until you explicitly demonstrate that you have heard and understood them.

The particular technique my friend told me about was called rephrasing, or something like that. Basically you repeat what you have heard back to the person in different words.

In the opening post your draft letter focuses on assertions that you have heard and understood, followed by an assessment of what effect the background experience has had on your friend.

A different possible format:
1. A detailed recount of the background incident/experience. (This eliminates the need for assertions of understanding).
2. What effect this has had on your friend
a. As she sees it.
b. As you see it.
3. How this makes you feel. (Must be brief and to the point).
4. Question whether the ongoing effect on your friend is something desirable to her life - whether it is reasonable, for instance, for her to isolate and punish herself because of x, y, z.
5. Assert that you are there to support her in trying to get her life back on track.
 
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