Am I INTJ? INFJ? Something else entirely? Please help. :)

[Azure_Knight]

I want to understand myself. It's not so much that my MBTI type is a part of my identity, as it is a useful tool for understanding my identity. I don't really get myself, and I'd like to.

What do you not understand about yourself? Your internal process of personality? How you view the world and why? What is it exactly that you would like to understand?

Piano, singing and poetry. A very little bit of fiction writing.

What is your approach to your artistic side? Do you think it is ordered and structured or chaotic?

It's not so much that I want to restrain the emotions, as I want to keep them from affecting my decisions. It's important to me that I make the "best" decisions, and I think that being emotional can interfere with that, for me at least.

While their is nothing wrong with your approach, I will play the Devil's advocate for a moment: the best approach may not always be the most logical one. I have had to deal with this myself as well: I try to not let my emotions affect my decision making process. I was told by someone much wiser than myself to let emotions come into play more (though try it out with minor things to start if you are interested; just consider the possibility).

I only discovered MBTI in January. I joined the INTJ forum and, unlike here posted, a lot on it. I almost immediately questioned whether I was T or F, and there were a few threads about it there. The participants of INTJf, however, were able to convince me that I was "T". In retrospect, some INTJs would be biased towards convincing me that I was T, and the same might apply to some INFJs and F.

So, really, it's been a question that's never gone away since I've known of MBTI.

I don't want to push you into either camp (INFJ, INTJ, or any other for that matter). My only wish is to ask introspective questions that will help you think about the issues with different perspectives. Sometimes a change in perspective is all we need to realize an important answer.

 

[Tamagochi]

hmm a tough case indeed

My background is similar to yours - I've always considered myself a thinker. I too was very good at math, physics, economics and took part in national competitions during school years. Intelligence fascinates me and I take great care for my emotions not to influence my decisions. If I feel that I'm not thinking straight then I just back off for a while, allow myself to cool and then return to the matter in a logical way. An important note is that emotions and feelings are two separate things.

I've also studied computer science at math department for 6 years and there I've noticed some curious things that were different about me. For one math subjects were more difficult for me to grasp than for other people around me (most of them NTs). I just needed more time for it. In the end I finished in top 10 but I had to compensate by spending more time studying to achieve that.

Secondly I've noticed that these people could not feel as deep as I could. Some of them looked at relationships in the same way as if it were a math problem to solve. For me it was a totally different thing - like a bottomless ocean which can never be solved.

I have a friend who I think is INTJ. He constantly jokes that I think at half of his speed when we play strategic games like Civilization IV We daydream about different things - I am fascinated about relationships, on how to build effective teams, leadership issues, how to empower people. He has confessed spending several nights without sleep thinking on how in the future people will colonize Mars. Seriously :twitch:
When he had trouble with his girlfriend he said that work allows him to cool down - he is very concentrated at those times. I for my part find it very hard to do any real work when I'm under emotional stress.

 

[Faye]

Maybe, but I don't really think I've subjugated my emotions in any way. I go out of my way to feel emotions, intentionally watching sad movies, or listening to inspiring music, often crying in either case. I let joy at life bubble up in me unrestrained, usually letting it out with a laugh. I don't disallow myself emotions in any way, I just try to make sure that the decisions I make are not influenced by them.

I didn't mean that you don't have or express emotions. Your last sentence indicates what I was aiming for, that you don't let them influence your decisions or, as I put it earlier, stand alone. I personally make tons of decisions based on emotion, like the fact that I am up right now talking to you instead of getting a full nights rest, for example. Obviously, it is bad to let emotions get out of control, which is why I think it can go one of two ways. The first is to play down emotions, not live your life by them. The other way is what most people would call "spiritual", meditating, praying, "magick", religion in general. You don't have to abandon a materialistic view of the universe to utilize some of these things (meditation is the easier, while magick is the hardest). For me as a person who relies heavily on Fe, I have to meditate, among other things, to get myself under control.

Call it moderation if you want. I'm probably biased in thinking that Fe is such an important thing to live by because it is by far my strongest function, though not my dominant or I'd be a different type.

I don't think it's accurate to speculate that intelligence can hinder personality. Now, what might, theoretically, have hindered the development of my personality is having focused on a certain type of academia, starting with "gifted" programs in primary school: math, sciences, computers, etc. That's a big might, however.

I would argue that the more even your use of all functions is, the better, but I am far from an expert as well.

Lets not call it intelligence then because that is such a vague word. A better term would be your significant intuitive capacity, which you utilized in your reply to me to some extent. Ni + J is basically gathering information and then judging it in order to determine the best. I think that your intuition is so strong that it, along with your J, has discredited other modes of being that you could potentially manifest, in favor of intuitition and judgement, which basically means you prefer scientific reasoning, rationality, materialism, etc., as opposed to romanticism and idealism. You use your Ti to support this mode, but it is also possible to apply Ti to Fe, and of course to have each of the functions operate independenly. Of course, what results is a really rigorous decision making process. You'll want something to fit into what you know, help you feel better, and make sense, which are hard criteria to fit all of, especially the first one because that is Ni, and like I've been saiyng, you seem to know a lot. You also seem like the kind of person who can pick things up faster than others.

Of course, this all only applies if you actually are INFJ. If you're INTJ instead, it would make sense to shut out Fe, but then there is the hastle of Fi and Te, so a bunch of things would have to be flipped around, but I wont go into that.

 

[Tamagochi]

I don't disallow myself emotions in any way, I just try to make sure that the decisions I make are not influenced by them.

Come to think of it why would a person try to restrain his/her emotions from influencing decisions? It implies that if let free those emotions might overrun thought processes. But doesn't it mean that this person is a feeler in the first place?

I mean from what I have observed about thinking types - they do not bother about restraining emotions because they simply do not have problems with them. They are capable to think things through with great reliability simply because of who they are and not because of conscious effort. Other people complain to them that they show too little emotion.

 

[laurie]

I'd say INTJ, but that's only because your posting style/description kind of reminds me of my sister (who is INTJ). I knid of depends also on how you react to certain things. Like, are you infuriated by stupidity to the point of telling your friends bluntly if they're being 'stupid'. Stuff like that. INTJs seem very blunt to me (which I think is a good thing ).

 

[Indie.J]

From what I've read so far I think you are an INFJ with a strong T tendancy. I'm much the same with my emotions. I am perfectly intuned with them but I make sure my overall decision is not based solely upon them. I believe emotions are a brilliant guide but not the "be all end all" and so I make my decisions accordingly.

INFJs who have a strong developed T can come across INTJ.

 

[slant]

I like you.

Automatically an INTJ.

 

[Rudy]

From all you've said, I'd say almost certainly INFJ. Our preferences, Ni Fe Ti Se, make it very easy for us to be close on the F/T scale, but you've described many things that are common to INFJs.

Hmm.. okay, thanks. Could I ask what stands out to you, that could not be true of an INTJ as well?

What do you not understand about yourself? Your internal process of personality? How you view the world and why? What is it exactly that you would like to understand?

I want to know why I do what I do, why I want knowledge and meaning. I want to know why I'm frequently restless and unsatisfied with myself, despite, from an objective standpoint, having done very well in life so far. I want to know why I sometimes feel a wellspring of joy bubble up in my, just from reflecting on the amazing nature of the universe.

What is your approach to your artistic side? Do you think it is ordered and structured or chaotic?

Hmm... probably ordered.

While their is nothing wrong with your approach, I will play the Devil's advocate for a moment: the best approach may not always be the most logical one. I have had to deal with this myself as well: I try to not let my emotions affect my decision making process. I was told by someone much wiser than myself to let emotions come into play more (though try it out with minor things to start if you are interested; just consider the possibility).

Actually, I have been letting my feelings come into play more recently, for good or ill. I'm now involved in my first relationship of any real depth, with an INTJ girl, actually (she's very INTJ.) I've come to the conclusion that I have to be the leader in the emotional realm of the relationship, which I'm unused to; it's causing me to exercise my emotions more, I think.

I don't want to push you into either camp (INFJ, INTJ, or any other for that matter). My only wish is to ask introspective questions that will help you think about the issues with different perspectives. Sometimes a change in perspective is all we need to realize an important answer.

Okay; thanks.

 

[Rudy]

hmm a tough case indeed

Always happy to provide a challenge.

My background is similar to yours - I've always considered myself a thinker. I too was very good at math, physics, economics and took part in national competitions during school years. Intelligence fascinates me and I take great care for my emotions not to influence my decisions. If I feel that I'm not thinking straight then I just back off for a while, allow myself to cool and then return to the matter in a logical way. An important note is that emotions and feelings are two separate things.

Excellent points, all. I relate very much to the backing off to cool off element, until such time as I feel I'm in control.

I've also studied computer science at math department for 6 years and there I've noticed some curious things that were different about me. For one math subjects were more difficult for me to grasp than for other people around me (most of them NTs). I just needed more time for it. In the end I finished in top 10 but I had to compensate by spending more time studying to achieve that.

I didn't really have this problem myself, but that doesn't really mean anything. My understanding is that, as math is more about logic than external cohesion (we must remember that, at its base, mathematics is essentially made up,) it relies on Ti as much, if not more so, than Te.

Secondly I've noticed that these people could not feel as deep as I could. Some of them looked at relationships in the same way as if it were a math problem to solve. For me it was a totally different thing - like a bottomless ocean which can never be solved.

I'm not sure I see relationships as a bottomless ocean, merely as very, very, very, very deep oceans. Mariana Trench level type things. That is, I think that they are solvable in theory, but that there are so many dimensions involved that it's not practically possible to model, or "solve" them.

I have a friend who I think is INTJ. He constantly jokes that I think at half of his speed when we play strategic games like Civilization IV We daydream about different things - I am fascinated about relationships, on how to build effective teams, leadership issues, how to empower people. He has confessed spending several nights without sleep thinking on how in the future people will colonize Mars. Seriously :twitch:
When he had trouble with his girlfriend he said that work allows him to cool down - he is very concentrated at those times. I for my part find it very hard to do any real work when I'm under emotional stress.

All my daydreams are about relationships as well, though not necessarily my own. [geek] Sometimes I daydream about the relationships of fictional characters... [/geek]. I can't say I've every daydreamed about something in which a relationship aspect was not critically involved.

As far as games, I'm pretty good at strategic games (I'm just about undefeated at Risk ), but I prefer games with good storylines, like well made RPGs, for example.

And yes, I have a very hard time focusing on my work when I'm under emotional stress.

 

[Rudy]

I didn't mean that you don't have or express emotions. Your last sentence indicates what I was aiming for, that you don't let them influence your decisions or, as I put it earlier, stand alone. I personally make tons of decisions based on emotion, like the fact that I am up right now talking to you instead of getting a full nights rest, for example. Obviously, it is bad to let emotions get out of control, which is why I think it can go one of two ways. The first is to play down emotions, not live your life by them. The other way is what most people would call "spiritual", meditating, praying, "magick", religion in general. You don't have to abandon a materialistic view of the universe to utilize some of these things (meditation is the easier, while magick is the hardest). For me as a person who relies heavily on Fe, I have to meditate, among other things, to get myself under control.

Well, actually, almost by definition I would have to abandon my materialistic view of the universe to utilize magick, but we needn't argue about that. However, the meditation is a very real possibility; something I'll think about.

However, I think you've misunderstood what I meant when I said I try not to let my emotions interfere with my decisions. When you say that you're talking to me instead of getting a full nights rest, I don't see that as letting your emotions affect your decisions; you're doing it (presumably) because you enjoy it, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. In this case, you are making a decision with emotion (enjoyment) as the goal, but emotion need not be affecting the decision itself.

What I'm talking about, to give a trivial example, is throwing a video game controller at the television because you're angry at losing a game (something I've witnessed all too often.) To give a slightly more complex example, locking yourself in your room and moping because you are sad about something. In that case, the decision is not reasonable, because it's not going to help you in any way, nor is it going to bring you positive emotions. That's the kind of thing I try to avoid. I may feel like locking myself in my room and moping, but I ask myself "What's actually going to make me feel happier?", and then do that instead.

Call it moderation if you want. I'm probably biased in thinking that Fe is such an important thing to live by because it is by far my strongest function, though not my dominant or I'd be a different type.

What's the difference between something being your strongest function, and something being your dominant function? I honestly thought that they were the same.

... I think that your intuition is so strong that it, along with your J, has discredited other modes of being that you could potentially manifest, in favor of intuitition and judgement, which basically means you prefer scientific reasoning, rationality, materialism, etc., as opposed to romanticism and idealism.

I wouldn't say I prefer those things at all, I just happen to think they are the truth of the world, and therefore the best way of accomplishing things. When I daydream about the way I would like things to be, which is quite often, it's all romanticism and idealism.

... You'll want something to fit into what you know, help you feel better, and make sense, which are hard criteria to fit all of, especially the first one because that is Ni...

This part is very true. I do try to satisfy all these things at once; I want things to fit my ideals, fit reality, fit my existing knowledge, fit my intuition... it's not always possible, leading to stress.

 

[Rudy]

Come to think of it why would a person try to restrain his/her emotions from influencing decisions? It implies that if let free those emotions might overrun thought processes. But doesn't it mean that this person is a feeler in the first place?

I mean from what I have observed about thinking types - they do not bother about restraining emotions because they simply do not have problems with them. They are capable to think things through with great reliability simply because of who they are and not because of conscious effort. Other people complain to them that they show too little emotion.

Actually, I had several INTJs at INTJf say, essentially, the same thing. "You mean, it's hard for you to keep your emotions out of your decisions?" Some were quite baffled.

I'd say INTJ, but that's only because your posting style/description kind of reminds me of my sister (who is INTJ). I knid of depends also on how you react to certain things. Like, are you infuriated by stupidity to the point of telling your friends bluntly if they're being 'stupid'. Stuff like that. INTJs seem very blunt to me (which I think is a good thing ).

I don't think that I've ever told my friends that they are stupid, no. Stupidity, in and of itself, is more likely to elicit pity from me than anger. Now, careless stupidity, that causes harm to others, is another matter altogether. Fatuous complacency is certainly irritating, also... It's callousness and cruelty, or egocentricity, though, that tends to really set my blood to boiling.

 

[Rudy]

From what I've read so far I think you are an INFJ with a strong T tendancy. I'm much the same with my emotions. I am perfectly intuned with them but I make sure my overall decision is not based solely upon them. I believe emotions are a brilliant guide but not the "be all end all" and so I make my decisions accordingly.

INFJs who have a strong developed T can come across INTJ.

Okay, thanks for the input.

I like you.

Automatically an INTJ.

Hehe. Thank you for your well reasoned input, as well as the compliment.

I've found plenty of irritating people on both sides of the INTJ/INFJ divide, though. The INTJs who say "We plan everything to perfection, are the pinnacle of logic and masterminding, are unbeatable in strategy, and don't have time for your silly emotions!" make me want to punch them sometimes. Same thing, though, for the INFJs who say "With a single glance, we can pierce through to the very soul of a person, knowing them better than they know themselves! Our intuition bypasses the restraints of logic, plumbing the depths of the universal conciousness!"

Hyperbole in both cases, of course.

Likewise, there are numerous persons of both types that I am very fond of. Basically, people who take their type stereotype to extremes are generally annoying to me.

 

[VH]

I've found plenty of irritating people on both sides of the INTJ/INFJ divide, though. The INTJs who say "We plan everything to perfection, are the pinnacle of logic and masterminding, are unbeatable in strategy, and don't have time for your silly emotions!" make me want to punch them sometimes. Same thing, though, for the INFJs who say "With a single glance, we can pierce through to the very soul of a person, knowing them better than they know themselves! Our intuition bypasses the restraints of logic, plumbing the depths of the universal conciousness!"

Hyperbole in both cases, of course.

Likewise, there are numerous persons of both types that I am very fond of. Basically, people who take their type stereotype to extremes are generally annoying to me.

While it is hyperbole, these exaggerated self opinions are very telling about the root of their personality types.

INTJs commonly mistype with INTPs due to the MBTI J and P axis assuming that it is measuring the extroverted function which fails introverts regularly, and ENTJs due to having their dominant and secondary functions being similarly developed (Te and Ni). More often than not, an individual is not an INTJ, but the other types, with INTP being the most common.

INFJs commonly mistype with INFP due to the MBTI J and P axis, INTJ due to the secondary and tertiary functions (T and F) being similarly developed, and ENFJ due to having their dominant and secondary functions being similarly developed (Ni and Fe). More often than not, an individual is not an INFJ, but the other types, with INFP being the most common.

I think this quiz might really clear things up for you. It measures the individual cognitive functions.

http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/assessment/surveyOriginal.html

Please post your results from the quiz. It should be rather enlightening.

 

[Rudy]

Please post your results from the quiz. It should be rather enlightening.

I'm skeptical about relying on such a quiz, mainly because I can tell what each question on it is measuring, and I wonder if I can even approach objective self-analysis.

Anyway, this is what I got:

extraverted Sensing (Se) ************************** (26.9)
introverted Sensing (Si) ************* (13.3)
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************************************* (37.8)
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ***************************** (29.7)
extraverted Thinking (Te) ******************* (19.3)
introverted Thinking (Ti) ******************************************** (44.9)
extraverted Feeling (Fe) *********************************** (35.7)
introverted Feeling (Fi) ******************************** (32.8)


Taking these results at face value, they would seem to point towards INTP with an an unusually strong F aspect? And a basically unused tertiary? I'm not opposed to INTPness, my best friend being a perfect example of one, but I don't find that the profiles for them fit me well.

Thoughts?

 

[IndigoSensor]

Interesting results! Honestly they don't really fit any type perfectly.

It looks most like INTP, and could possibly be ENTP. However, you don't really strike me as either of those. You are indeed a puzzle. I would resign you from NJ types from these because your Ni is low in comparison. You might be like a few people here, where you are so balenced, it is diffuclt to figure out an exact type.

 

[Rudy]

Interesting results! Honestly they don't really fit any type perfectly.

It looks most like INTP, and could possibly be ENTP. However, you don't really strike me as either of those. You are indeed a puzzle. I would resign you from NJ types from these because your Ni is low in comparison. You might be like a few people here, where you are so balenced, it is diffuclt to figure out an exact type.

Hmm... I suppose that's possible. Are there other cognitive function tests? I don't think it's wise to rely on one test, especially when so many of the items are almost impossible to objectively self-analyze.

 

[VH]

It is obvious after seeing these results why you have such confusion on type. You’re one of those rare people who are very close on a lot of function preferences.


If we go in order of totals, you’re an F, N, T, S. That’s not really a type, so we can rule that out for the most part, and consider it a leaning point.

extraverted Feeling (Fe) (35.7)
introverted Feeling (Fi) (32.8)
Total F = 68.5

extraverted Intuiting (Ne) (37.8)
introverted Intuiting (Ni) (29.7)
Total N = 67.5

extraverted Thinking (Te) (19.3)
introverted Thinking (Ti) (44.9)
Total T = 64.5

extraverted Sensing (Se) (26.9)
introverted Sensing (Si) (13.3)
Total S = 40.2

If we go in order of individual functions you’re a Ti, Ne, Fe, Se. That’s not really a type either, so we need to take a look at how your self assessment is interacting.

Your Ne and Si are the drastic polarity of your pairs. These are likely your dominant and inferior functions. This is further supported by the fact that your overall S is clearly your lowest function and your overall N is arguably your best function, assuming a few points for margin of error. Finally, it is likely that if Ne is your dominant function, your Se will seem to be elevated as a shadow function because you’re using it as a combination between Ne and Si. Your Ne is roughly 38 and your Si is roughly 13. The midpoint for [(38+13=51)/2=26] is roughly 26, and that’s almost exactly what your Se result is.

This brings us to the hard part, figuring out whether your F or T function is secondary or tertiary. Ti naturally pairs with Ne dominant, as does Fi. We can rule out Fe or Te as secondary. If we take your scores for Ne, Ti, Fe, Si we get 37.8, 44.9, 35.7, 13.3. It is possible that you’re an ENTP and you overestimated your Ti, but if that were the case, you’d have likely overestimated your Te as well.

It is more likely that your functions are actually Ne, Fi, Te, Si, making you an ENFP. The scores would be 37.8, 32.8, 19.3, 13.3. Your high Ti is likely an overestimate due to a combination use of Fi and Te. 32.8+19.3=52.1, but it is not uncommon for this to happen, and your 44 score in Ti on that test would indicate that you feel very strongly about these types of things. You likely chose ‘Exactly Me’ on almost all of them to get a score like that. As ENFPs are secondary Feelers, this is also not uncommon in self assessment.

Lastly, ENFPs have the same overall function preference as INFJs, N, F, T, S, making them seem a lot like INFJs on the MBTI, especially if they choose a few more I and J answers. I graphed your results, below. If we were to shrink your F just a hair because it was likely that with Fi secondary you placed a little more emphasis on Fe than you actually have, and put your Ti into a more likely range due to the reasons mentioned above, the graphic below would fit perfectly.

View attachment 1237



My best guess is that you are an ENFP, the most introverted of the extroverts, and one of the most common INFJ mistypes. If not an ENFP, then you’re likely an ENTP, but your F function results are too strong and your Te results do not correlate properly for a mistype from ENTP. Your results do not indicate that you are an INFJ, INTJ, and it is very unlikely that you are an INTP for the same reasons.

I hope this helps.

Here are a few links that might prove a good litmus.

http://www.personalitypage.com/ENFP.html

http://www.murraystate.edu/secsv/fye/ENFP.htm

http://www.purdue.edu/usp/pdfs/mbtiresources/ENFP.pdf

 

[Rudy]

I hope this helps.

That's interesting... I confess myself extremely skeptical of the possibility that I am ENFP, most especially the extroverted bit. I do not feel recharged by being around people, and need several hours of solitude every single day or I become very perturbed. One of the greatest experiences of my life was when I went a week during a trip to Ireland without talking to a single human being, even once...

Still, your explanation is engrossing, and I'll consider it, even though the profiles don't seem to fit me in the least. I'm curious as to how you were able to use the results to eliminate INTP, though, given that the dominant and secondary traits are there in full.

Thank you for the input, and I'll think about what you've said.

 

[Lurker]

Funnily enough the 'INFJ' here I was going to suggest you reminded me the most of is Satya and he is now trying on ENFP for size... hence why I didn't say anything

 

[TheLastMohican]

Funnily enough the 'INFJ' here I was going to suggest you reminded me the most of is Satya and he is now trying on ENFP for size... hence why I didn't say anything

Satya is swapping Fe for Fi? :faint2: