Am I the only one who hates historicism??

Deleted member 16771 said:
All of your points are good ones, but I think there are ways of understanding that accounts for them all.

Screw it. This is the system I'm working on right now, drafting it into a paper for History & Theory.
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I have no doubt that once your paper is crafted in its finer details, History & Theory will be dying to publish it.

They would be fools otherwise.

Emanuel Goldstein said:
So it's not that you don't like history... You just don't like unproductive conversations about history that aren't practical... and relatable to the present/future.

I'd buy that for a dollar...
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I think this solves the thread as far as I'm concerned. ^^
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
Also, those guys probably did 'come up with their own idea', but then read some things and realised that it already had a name.
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Story of my life. I once accidentally 'invented' the t-test in highschool. You have this problem too, Host? :D

Deleted member 16771 said:
All of your points are good ones, but I think there are ways of understanding that accounts for them all.

Screw it. This is the system I'm working on right now, drafting it into a paper for History & Theory.
Click to expand...
Good work. I've only skimmed it, as I don't have any energy or powers of concentration, but from what I've read, you make your reasoning clear and explicit. (So much so even that I wonder if your target audience are sensors :D)

slant said:
But yeah, ever since I read Karl Poppers "the poverty of historicism" I've not been a big fan of focusing too much on the past as a way to predict the future or even just as an interesting discussion. I'm more interested in how the past relates to the present or more importantly the future and don't like to "predict" based on pre determined models, instead, I envision something totally new.
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I hate to break it to you, but yeah, you do. You're even doing it right now. :sweatsmile:
You have pre-determined models too. They clash with the models these INTPs use, and here we are. :)
 
Ren said:
I have no doubt that once your paper is crafted in its finer details, History & Theory will be dying to publish it.

They would be fools otherwise.
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Thanks for the support, Renster, I bloody well hope so :grin::laughing:

Lady Jolanda said:
Story of my life. I once accidentally 'invented' the t-test in highschool. You have this problem too, Host? :D
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Oh yeah, all the damn time, Lololol. Everytime I find out it's already been discovered, I'm like 'aw fuck...'

Lady Jolanda said:
Good work. I've only skimmed it, as I don't have any energy or powers of concentration, but from what I've read, you make your reasoning clear and explicit. (So much so even that I wonder if your target audience are sensors :D)
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Cheers, LJ - well, that outline was written to be shared with my supervisor, who's very concerned with it's practical historical relevance for method, though he claims to be INFJ...
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
Everytime I find out it's already been discovered, I'm like 'aw fuck...'
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This happens all the time with my "original" ideas! Later, I learn some has already articulated my thoughts better than I ever could. I don't even try anymore. None of my ideas or "truths" are original. Only new to me.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
All of your points are good ones, but I think there are ways of understanding that accounts for them all.

Screw it. This is the system I'm working on right now, drafting it into a paper for History & Theory.
Click to expand...
Excellent work. I'm unable to read it in depth atm and it's unlikely I'll be able to fully comprehend it anyway, lol. Seems legit though! Good work
 
What is the same will tend to repeat, what has changed might not. It is, however, not always obvious when and how things change especially in the subterfuge of the present. Historical knowledge gives a blueprint for human nature and the systems/interactions that are brought about from that nature, not to innovations yet to be nor for the social aspect of humanity in the future that might not be so predictable. Even single individuals can radically change the course of history.

Pattern recognition isn't everything but it is damned useful to say the least.
sassafras said:
What did historicism ever do to you?
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What she said
 
slant said:
This is mainly a rant thread. But I was journaling and a big piece clicked in my head just now.

I've been going on a lot of nice dates with INTPs but despite our shared intellect and general on paper compatibility I always leave those interactions feeling peeved and disappointed.

I was so puzzled about why for quite a spell. Then I realized something. They're super into history and mostly like talking about history. I would try to engage them in a hypothetical future conversation and they would reference real events that happened in the past as a way to construct their hypotheticals and I'm sitting there like

NO! COME UP WITH YOUR OWN IDEA!

anyways that's the context of this realization.

But yeah, ever since I read Karl Poppers "the poverty of historicism" I've not been a big fan of focusing too much on the past as a way to predict the future or even just as an interesting discussion. I'm more interested in how the past relates to the present or more importantly the future and don't like to "predict" based on pre determined models, instead, I envision something totally new.

Anyone else ever bothered by people really fixated on the past? Whether it be history of the world or just their own past. Some people seem to be super stuck, or at least, for a future envisioning person it *appears* like being stuck.
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Sounds like you've been dating ISTPs, not INTPs. A fixation on the facts and on history is usually an ST thing, not an NT thing. It's like STs need consent from the facts to believe a pattern is real. NTs, conversely, don't need as much consent, they just jump straight into intuition and ignore the ST facts of reality.

Anyway, I read that book as well. I completely agree with him. It makes sense that the future course of history is unpredictable since the future growth of knowledge is unpredictable.
 
Emanuel Goldstein said:
I'm not saying the US is Nazi Germany
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Nope... the US is a unique beast all its own where old Nazi's go to die, well fed, of old age... operation paperclip[/QUOTE]
I deleted my post so I wouldn't cause a shit storm, but think about it.

History does indeed repeat itself. The more we remember history, the less chance we have of it repeating. That's how I see it

And I gotta read up on Operation paperclip
 
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