America moves nukes in range of North Korea?!
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muir
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That makes a bit more sense...i was beginning to think there was a whole episode to that that i had missed or something!
There isn't really any accurate way of planners predicting how many people might become victims in a false flag operation. It isn't a case of some government planners saying 'well i think this operation will cost 10,000 lives'. What we are looking at is different adminsitrations, over different eras, sometimes with some of the same faces in and sometimes not, who have looked at examples of what has worked for previous administrations and then imitated it. Same policies, usually different people. But there are government advisors like Kissinger whose influence has spanned many administrations.
I take your point that i am straying into the realms of speculation and i should pick my words more carefully
Lets put speculation about false flags aside for a minute....those events still happened and they still brought the US into various different wars. The point is something similar could potentially happen in Korea.
Just for your own interest.....you know how the pentagon is one of the most secure buildings in the world? I mean it is literally bristling with CCTV.....can you find me a bit of footage of the plane crashing into the building on 9/11?
Also have a look from an aerial view (you will find footage out there) at the pentagon building....can you explain to me how a commercial passenger plane flown by an amateur came into the pentagon horizontally through all the trees, fences, cars and buildings?
A plane no, a missile maybe
There isn't really any accurate way of planners predicting how many people might become victims in a false flag operation. It isn't a case of some government planners saying 'well i think this operation will cost 10,000 lives'. What we are looking at is different adminsitrations, over different eras, sometimes with some of the same faces in and sometimes not, who have looked at examples of what has worked for previous administrations and then imitated it. Same policies, usually different people. But there are government advisors like Kissinger whose influence has spanned many administrations.
I take your point that i am straying into the realms of speculation and i should pick my words more carefully
Lets put speculation about false flags aside for a minute....those events still happened and they still brought the US into various different wars. The point is something similar could potentially happen in Korea.
Just for your own interest.....you know how the pentagon is one of the most secure buildings in the world? I mean it is literally bristling with CCTV.....can you find me a bit of footage of the plane crashing into the building on 9/11?
Also have a look from an aerial view (you will find footage out there) at the pentagon building....can you explain to me how a commercial passenger plane flown by an amateur came into the pentagon horizontally through all the trees, fences, cars and buildings?
A plane no, a missile maybe
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You are a smart guy.
"Following are some of the numerous eyewitness accounts of the Pentagon crash:
"Following are some of the numerous eyewitness accounts of the Pentagon crash:
muir
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No cigar Dave!
'Eyewitness' accounts can easily be faked
The challenge was to find footage of a passenger plane hitting the pentagon. Come on how hard can it be?
Also your source: 'america.gov' hardly independant
Here's an eyewitness...and you even get to hear his voice!:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFz7gLz7CVk"]YouTube - "NO PLANE HIT THE PENTAGON" only once aired report[/ame]
'Eyewitness' accounts can easily be faked
The challenge was to find footage of a passenger plane hitting the pentagon. Come on how hard can it be?
Also your source: 'america.gov' hardly independant
Here's an eyewitness...and you even get to hear his voice!:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFz7gLz7CVk"]YouTube - "NO PLANE HIT THE PENTAGON" only once aired report[/ame]
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muir
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I don't know....i mean i've heard the theories
I definately saw 2 planes going into the trade centre towers!
So have you seen anything hit the pentagon?
What do you think?
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muir
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Dave if you read all my posts upto this i have been clear when i am discussing facts and when i am speculating
The overall point i am trying to make is that our governments lie to us. They do it all the time
We need to be vigilant against it
The US is cranking up the pressure with N.Korea and I will be watching out for any incidents which will provide provocation for either side
The absence of footage is very significant. The pentagon is one of the most watched and guarded buildings in the world! The government show us the planes hitting the two towers but why not the pentagon?
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I do not think it is incredulous that there would not be footage of the crash. I would be inclined to believe that (in general) filming of the Pentagon is discouraged.
muir
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It isn't though. The hotel opposite had it on their cameras but the FBI have confiscated the footage. If i was the US government i would want to end the speculation wouldn't you? You know prove to the public how honest we are. Also think about all the footage taken of the pentagon after the incident....they're not shy when it suits them
Do you always trust your government?
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSDAXGXGiEw"]YouTube - Bill Clinton: I Did Not, Have, Sexual, Relations, with THAT Woman, Miss Lewinsky[/ame]
I love the way that if you look closely at his mouth when he is lying you can see a wee smile momentarily...he can't even keep a straight face!
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muir
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We have 'investigations' all the time in Britain....they never turn up anything...nothing really juicy anyway. They are whitewashs designed to give the public the illusion that someone is keeping a watch out on things....kinda like 'regulatory bodies'
An example is the 'bloody sunday' investigation. They knew which soldiers had fired in the incident becasue they all had to unload their magazines afterwards and account for the bullets. But the government protected the few individuals who had gone on a kill happy rampage shooting down Irish citizens.
They couldn't throw the soldiers to the dogs however because the command came from higher up. The troops were responding to the orders they were given.....so many millions of pounds later and no change to the situation
The investigation into the Holyrood parliament building blamed it on the first minister who had recently died.
The Hutton report was to investigate the death of whistleblower David Kelly and it ruled the government had doen no wrong and it was in fact the fault of the BBC who had simply told the public something that they needed to know....namely that their government had lied to them to take them to war......guess who commissioned the investigation: the government!
The only people who benefit from investigations are the lawyers
You can't rely on them. You have to find your own info
An example is the 'bloody sunday' investigation. They knew which soldiers had fired in the incident becasue they all had to unload their magazines afterwards and account for the bullets. But the government protected the few individuals who had gone on a kill happy rampage shooting down Irish citizens.
They couldn't throw the soldiers to the dogs however because the command came from higher up. The troops were responding to the orders they were given.....so many millions of pounds later and no change to the situation
The investigation into the Holyrood parliament building blamed it on the first minister who had recently died.
The Hutton report was to investigate the death of whistleblower David Kelly and it ruled the government had doen no wrong and it was in fact the fault of the BBC who had simply told the public something that they needed to know....namely that their government had lied to them to take them to war......guess who commissioned the investigation: the government!
The only people who benefit from investigations are the lawyers
You can't rely on them. You have to find your own info
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In my opinion, when investigations take place facts come out. In the case of the alleged missile attack on the Pentagon, a brief perusal of the internet demonstrates a crafty government plot to hide it (an actual missile) by creating a radical terrorist movement and attributing the destruction to them.
There are way too many moving parts to sustain that logic.
In the case of the "Bloody Sunday" massacre, hiding the facts and protecting the soldiers who were, or thought they were, following orders seems logical.
The 9/11 conspiracy theorists do not have the force of logic on their side.
There are way too many moving parts to sustain that logic.
In the case of the "Bloody Sunday" massacre, hiding the facts and protecting the soldiers who were, or thought they were, following orders seems logical.
The 9/11 conspiracy theorists do not have the force of logic on their side.
muir
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Is that in your opinion or in your experience?
The Bloody Sunday inquiry did not focus on influence from above. You could carry blame to the highest levels....why do you get shocktroops to police a peaceful process? It was taking a sledghammer to break an egg. And was always going to end badly. The troops were fired up by their commanding officers and then unleashed on an a peaceful public
I haven't discussed the wider 9/11 theory, i've zoomed in on the pentagon and I am not satisfied about the US government's handling of the situation. Concerning the creation of a terrorist enemy see: 'the power of nightmares': [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt-FyuuWlWQ"]YouTube - The Power of Nightmares Volume 1 Part 1 of 6[/ame]
I have now seen many governments on both sides of the pond lie. I have seen them tell lies which have been responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths, thats my experience of governments.
The Bloody Sunday inquiry did not focus on influence from above. You could carry blame to the highest levels....why do you get shocktroops to police a peaceful process? It was taking a sledghammer to break an egg. And was always going to end badly. The troops were fired up by their commanding officers and then unleashed on an a peaceful public
I haven't discussed the wider 9/11 theory, i've zoomed in on the pentagon and I am not satisfied about the US government's handling of the situation. Concerning the creation of a terrorist enemy see: 'the power of nightmares': [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt-FyuuWlWQ"]YouTube - The Power of Nightmares Volume 1 Part 1 of 6[/ame]
I have now seen many governments on both sides of the pond lie. I have seen them tell lies which have been responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths, thats my experience of governments.
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The people of N Korea are hostages
In a TV courtroom, a witness is marginalized and their testimony tossed once they have been caught lying. Deciphering the wider world is a bit more nuanced. Just because a Government has a history of twisting the truth to meet its ends does not mean that the causes any catastrophic event is open interpretation.
Thank you for concentrating on the one event, the Pentagon. In order to cover up a missile attack, a commercial airliner was presumably destroyed with no witnesses and the evidence of that destruction was then...strewn on the pentagon grounds?
It is really a question of plausibility. In my experience, the government is not that competent.
In a TV courtroom, a witness is marginalized and their testimony tossed once they have been caught lying. Deciphering the wider world is a bit more nuanced. Just because a Government has a history of twisting the truth to meet its ends does not mean that the causes any catastrophic event is open interpretation.
Thank you for concentrating on the one event, the Pentagon. In order to cover up a missile attack, a commercial airliner was presumably destroyed with no witnesses and the evidence of that destruction was then...strewn on the pentagon grounds?
It is really a question of plausibility. In my experience, the government is not that competent.
muir
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Governments don't need to be competant they just need to control your perceptions of reality
They focus a lot of their efforts on doing just that. That is how they manage to mislead the public so much
That is why leaks are so damaging to governments because it damages the illusion they create in the public perception that they are decent and honest and working for the people
I understand your position on the pentagon, however whatever you believe about it the fact that they won't show you the footage should be outrage enough
They focus a lot of their efforts on doing just that. That is how they manage to mislead the public so much
That is why leaks are so damaging to governments because it damages the illusion they create in the public perception that they are decent and honest and working for the people
I understand your position on the pentagon, however whatever you believe about it the fact that they won't show you the footage should be outrage enough
MindYourHead
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The conspiracy theorists always give the government too much credit when it comes to competence.