Are we as a society being kept from discussing the big issues?

[muir]

@Stu

Have you seen this disk from minoan crete?

They say no one knows what the symbols mean

But i'm finding now as an adult that for a lot of the stuff i was told is a mystery as a child there often is someone somewhere who knows the answer.....usually they are just not sharing it

 

[MindYourHead]

Maybe a guy who has an ancient star disk from germany as his avatar?

it's Neanderthal

And here I thought it was a wheel of moldy cheese. :tongue:

 

[muir]

It's not that the government isn't lying, it's that you're making absolutely outrageous claims and then backing them up with excessive amounts of information with sketchy connections to the original topic. You don't know for sure that there were NEVER WMDs in Iraq, you don't know for sure that the Sarin gas attacks were carried out by the US, and the thing is neither of those two subjects relates to your original statement that we're being led away from
genuine news!

We don't know that there were WMD's?

Here listen carefully to your president (at that time) joke with some of the elite about not finding any weapons of mass destruction (apparently the deaths of over a million iraqis is a laughing matter):

Its at 5:00...just so you don't have to wade through the whole speech

[video=youtube;GvliUuXjbL4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvliUuXjbL4[/video]

You have no idea what you are even talking about... you have completely misinterpreted these ideas and you do not even care. It only becomes a debate because you make so many outrageous claims that are just blatantly wrong or misinterpreted and then you change the subject or throw in more BS videos and half-truths and outright lies about different subjects instead of focusing on a single topic. There is just no way to debate you on these claims because the second I do you will change the topic to something else or accuse me of being a shill or something. And you do it for pages and pages until the whole thread is about you. You ARE pummeling people. Even if you think you are just spreading truth, you cannot deny that you are incapable of expressing succinct, focused points that demonstrate your opinion on a single topic... because if you did, it would be possible for people to pick apart each aspect of the narrative that holds your perspective together. But instead you throw out more and more and more until it is impossible to respond. And now you are accusing me of manipulating you! It is absolutely ridiculous.

What i a saying to you, is that you are not helping move closer to the truth whatever that is

If you think i am talking BS and you wantto prove that then your time would be better spent looking into what i am talking about

Then if you find some evidence to prove something else to be the case then you help me and anyone else listening to evolve their perceptions

However there is also the possiblity that as you look into what i'm talking about you might become convinced that actually its true lol

I cannot disagree with any of this... I have already spent multiple posts trying to get you to focus on one point and respond to it, and so far you have not even approached a response. It IS my fault... but that is NOT what I am trying to say. I am trying to say that your tidal waves of information are impossible to respond to... and not because people are not informed enough, but because you post so MUCH of it that it is impossible for ANYONE to vertify EVERYTHING that you are saying. It is the same tactic that propagandists use... and if you want to find the truth then this is not the way to do it.

Relax man

This thread will allow you to talk about anything from neanderthal sky disks to banking cabals to ancient sumerian mystery schools and you are spending all your time attacking me

There is a whole world of wonder out there man....come and explore it

What are the issues here, exactly?
There are so many issues in this thread that it is impossible to respond to any of it.
That is, once again, my point.
And the ridicule was demonstrating my point... and it is exactly what you are doing by posting all of this stuff.

The issues kind of do have to be deternined as we go along

At the moment the issues that have been discussed a bit recently (that i personally am interested in but some might not be) are things like whether or not our governmets are lying to us to try and take us into war

Whether the war is justifiable or whether it is morally wrong?

The degree to which power is concentrated in the west?

Are there people using ancient techniques we can lump under the title 'magick' to control us?

and so on

But as we learn more these issues might change to whole new ones

No, it is not about winning or losing... but if you are not willing to consider that you might not be using sound tactics to prove your points, then that suggests you are not interested in the truth or finding a fair and balanced perspective.

I am very interested in finding the truth...why don't we dig a little deeper here particularly behind the corporate news and see if we can find anything that is interesting to us

 

[sassafras]

[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION], okay... you will have to give me a day or two to process this.

 

[muir]

@muir , okay... you will have to give me a day or two to process this.

No worries

You now how there was big social change in the sixties? There was some kind of shift in consciousness happening.

There is something happening to our generation. There is a radical shift in cosnciousness happening and the social changes this could bring could be tremendous

The high preists know this. They have never had to face such an awakening form the masses before

Here is one of the cabal insiders admiting that there is a global awakening of political consciousness happening. He has even said that it is making it harder to wage war:

Its only 6 minutes long: [video=youtube;bHknL5z8f6k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHknL5z8f6k[/video]

Here is a longer clip if youre interested where James Corbett kinda breaks the whole thing down. He does a great show called the Corbett Report. it is quite a bit longer but imo worth a watch:

[video=youtube;pBo134nnIlc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBo134nnIlc[/video]

 

[Gul Dukat]

We don't know that there were WMD's?

Here listen carefully to your president (at that time) joke with some of the elite about not finding any weapons of mass destruction (apparently the deaths of over a million iraqis is a laughing matter):

He didn't find any, yes.
That is not the same as saying that they were never there.
And if he had said this (which he wouldn't), it still wouldn't prove that there were never any WMDs in Iraq.
You are, once again, misrepresenting statements... and I'm actually semi-defending Bush.
This has never happened to me before.

 

[muir]

He didn't find any, yes.
That is not the same as saying that they were never there.
And if he had said this (which he wouldn't), it still wouldn't prove that there were never any WMDs in Iraq.
You are, once again, misrepresenting statements... and I'm actually semi-defending Bush.
This has never happened to me before.

The west knew what weapons iraq had because they sold them all their equipment

The USA supplied saddam with his chemical weapons. It supplied Iraq with weapons in its war with Iran

In the UK the government produced a document which was later revealed to be a student paper that claimed iraq could launch wmd's against europe in 45 minutes. This was the pretext for going to war

We had a government civil servant called Dr kelly who was an expert on biological weapons and he came out publically and said the government was lying and that Iraq could not strike europe. It was said then in the press that the government had 'sexed up' the document to try and make the iraqis sound more dangerous then they were

Blair and bush did not get permission from the UN to attack so they just illegally did it anyway

As for the whistleblower Dr Kelly, he was found dead in a wood near his family home. The coroners verdict was suicide but a group of doctors are currently challenging that claim having looked at the evidence

 

[muir]

The 'chemical weapons' that UK company sold Syria were flouride

Thats the same flouride that is put in peoples drinking water and toothpaste. This means the USA is using chemical weapons against its own people:

[video=youtube;et1NSxT1K4w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=et1NSxT1K4w#t=136[/video]

 

[muir]

Israeli lobbyist says the USA needs a false flag attack to take it into war:

[video=youtube;PfoaLbbAix0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfoaLbbAix0[/video]

 

[this is only temporary]

Hey! watched that video and it jumps around quite a bit. At 5 seconds, for instance, it skips. Also, the words do not always align with the lip movement, and the color of the video changes from beginning to end. Almost as if someone took bits and pieces of a video/soundtrack and edited them together to say something different. Almost like it was a hoax or something. (I do some video editing myself and I could've theoretically taken an hour or so of footage of that guy talking and chopped it up/clipped it together to make it say something different.)

And Mike Adams/ AKA The Health Ranger is profiled here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NaturalNews

Just because someone posted a video of something on YouTube does not mean it adheres to standards of journalistic excellence. In fact, anyone with a camera and some minor video editing knowledge can post pretty much anything they want on YouTube. That does not add one iota of credibility as far as I'm concerned.

Also -- answer me this -- if those YouTube people were so accurate and dangerous and really onto something -- why are their videos allowed to remain up? If they were exposing something the government didn't want known, then surely the government could simply remove them? Or, better yet, target the people who are posting them?

(Remember the lady who had a YouTube account where she was advocating for ritual male castration? Yeah. See what I mean?)

 

[muir]

Hey! watched that video and it jumps around quite a bit. At 5 seconds, for instance, it skips. Also, the words do not always align with the lip movement, and the color of the video changes from beginning to end. Almost as if someone took bits and pieces of a video/soundtrack and edited them together to say something different. Almost like it was a hoax or something. (I do some video editing myself and I could've theoretically taken an hour or so of footage of that guy talking and chopped it up/clipped it together to make it say something different.)

Oh i see cos you say its fake its fake lol

Come on you will have to do better than that if you want a war

If you want to see the bombs land on syria and feel the buzz of all the dead bodies being carried around by their grief stricken familes aired on the mainstream news.....a nice dose of war porn to get off on....all the people you are defending need to do is sell the war to the public

So come on prove the clip is a fake....i don't just mean give your opinion....i mean prove it

Besides i think where it skips i think a bit that isn't relevant has been cut out to keep the relevant stuff in a bite sized clip

And here's a video just for you, to get your juices flowing:

[video=youtube;tgqxoHXRKu0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tgqxoHXRKu0[/video]

And Mike Adams/ AKA The Health Ranger is profiled here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NaturalNews

Just because someone posted a video of something on YouTube does not mean it adheres to standards of journalistic excellence. In fact, anyone with a camera and some minor video editing knowledge can post pretty much anything they want on YouTube. That does not add one iota of credibility as far as I'm concerned.

Ah that's because you don't listen to what is being said

You see all the person did was show you a headline in the independent...it was all there in black and white. It doesn't matter who is doing it....it could have been the boston strangler...the point is that its there in black and white in the mainstream news the substances sold to syria as chemical weapons and its the same stuff they put in your water!

Also -- answer me this -- if those YouTube people were so accurate and dangerous and really onto something -- why are their videos allowed to remain up? If they were exposing something the government didn't want known, then surely the government could simply remove them? Or, better yet, target the people who are posting them?

(Remember the lady who had a YouTube account where she was advocating for ritual male castration? Yeah. See what I mean?)

They are often taken down. in fact there is a lot of stuff going missing off the internet

But people just keep posting them back up

 

[Gul Dukat]

The west knew what weapons iraq had because they sold them all their equipment

The USA supplied saddam with his chemical weapons. It supplied Iraq with weapons in its war with Iran

In the UK the government produced a document which was later revealed to be a student paper that claimed iraq could launch wmd's against europe in 45 minutes. This was the pretext for going to war

We had a government civil servant called Dr kelly who was an expert on biological weapons and he came out publically and said the government was lying and that Iraq could not strike europe. It was said then in the press that the government had 'sexed up' the document to try and make the iraqis sound more dangerous then they were

Blair and bush did not get permission from the UN to attack so they just illegally did it anyway

As for the whistleblower Dr Kelly, he was found dead in a wood near his family home. The coroners verdict was suicide but a group of doctors are currently challenging that claim having looked at the evidence

You are jumping through A LOT of history here. You don't need to mention that the US gave weapons to Iraq or created Al Quaeda or any of that... it's widely accepted that this is true, and none of it definitely means that there were no WMDs in Iraq OR that the US is a demonic entity hellbent on the destruction of mankind since its creation. It's impossible to say for sure that they were never there. It's not a good argument for a war, but it's not something that you can ever disprove... and in this, your conspiracy theories and Bush's WMD story have much in common. Both rely on paranoia, mistrust and suspicion... and both rely on questionable information.

 

[muir]

You are jumping through A LOT of history here. You don't need to mention that the US gave weapons to Iraq or created Al Quaeda or any of that... it's widely accepted that this is true, and none of it definitely means that there were no WMDs in Iraq OR that the US is a demonic entity hellbent on the destruction of mankind since its creation. It's impossible to say for sure that they were never there. It's not a good argument for a war, but it's not something that you can ever disprove... and in this, your conspiracy theories and Bush's WMD story have much in common. Both rely on paranoia, mistrust and suspicion... and both rely on questionable information.

I'm pretty sure that what you just did there is to use a non technical term 'flanneling'

You have provided no evidence that there were any WMD, you have discounted the fact that none were found but despite that you are still trying to construct an argument and make it sound credible

yeah thats flanneling....a lot of words....but no information

 

[this is only temporary]

#1, I don't want a war
#2, you tell me why a clip of a man standing there talking has to jump around like that one does. It is a man standing there talking. That should be reeeealy simple to film with no jumping around or color changes or places where the lip movement doesn't align with the audio.
#3 Fluoride kills people now? I thought there was evidence the people who died did so because of sarin gas.

But of course, I don't KNOW know with my own knowledge what they died of and neither do you. We both have to rely on news sources and I'm personally not going to rely on YouTube videos like the ones you just posted as proof of anything.

 

[54192&#cmy]

[video=youtube;PCJ8JqtGahQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCJ8JqtGahQ[/video]

Listen to him. Does he act like the mad man they have made him out to be? We attacked him under false pretenses. Is Iraq more free than it was when he ruled?

 

[54192&#cmy]

#1, I don't want a war
#2, you tell me why a clip of a man standing there talking has to jump around like that one does. It is a man standing there talking. That should be reeeealy simple to film with no jumping around or color changes or places where the lip movement doesn't align with the audio.
#3 Fluoride kills people now? I thought there was evidence the people who died did so because of sarin gas.

But of course, I don't KNOW know with my own knowledge what they died of and neither do you. We both have to rely on news sources and I'm personally not going to rely on YouTube videos like the ones you just posted as proof of anything.

They mix the fluoride with something else. I don;t know nor do I want to know! But you need fluoride as one of the components to make it....

 

[muir]

#1, I don't want a war

convince me cos at the moment you are building a pretty strong impression in the other direction.....go on tell me a syrian life is worth as much as an israeli life

#2, you tell me why a clip of a man standing there talking has to jump around like that one does. It is a man standing there talking. That should be reeeealy simple to film with no jumping around or color changes or places where the lip movement doesn't align with the audio.

Do you know what technology was used to film it?

I can follow what his lips are saying just watch them and it matches the words

If you watch his delivery as a person...his body language...he is a pretty jerky guy....watch....he jerks around a lot. he swings his head about, he moves his arms...he's jerky

#3 Fluoride kills people now? I thought there was evidence it was sarin gas.

You didn't listen to him explaining how the filter shows flouride up as the same as sarin did you?

Yeah flouride is poisonous...its a harmful substance and they are putting it in your water. that means by their own classification they are using chemical weapons against the american people

Besides there is a lot of chatter out there about how the cabal has supplied the rebels with chemical weapons. heck they did it with saddam!

 

[muir]

Israel used chemical weapons (white phosphorous) against palestineans:

[video=youtube;PnWLo1PbOs8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PnWLo1PbOs8[/video]

 

[muir]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-...eights/5346959

Israel has granted oil exploration rights inside Syria, in the occupied Golan Heights

By Craig Murray
Global Research, August 26, 2013
craigmurray.org 21 February 2013

Israel has granted oil exploration rights inside Syria, in the occupied Golan Heights, to Genie Energy.

Major shareholders of Genie Energy – which also has interests in shale gas in the United States and shale oil in Israel – include Rupert Murdoch and Lord Jacob Rothschild. This from a 2010 Genie Energy press release:

Claude Pupkin, CEO of Genie Oil and Gas, commented, “Genie’s success will ultimately depend, in part, on access to the expertise of the oil and gas industry and to the financial markets.
Jacob Rothschild and Rupert Murdoch are extremely well regarded by and connected to leaders in these sectors. Their guidance and participation will prove invaluable.”
“I am grateful to Howard Jonas and IDT for the opportunity to invest in this important initiative,” Lord Rothschild said. “Rupert Murdoch’s extraordinary achievements speak for themselves and we are very pleased he has agreed to be our partner.
Genie Energy is making good technological progress to tap the world’s substantial oil shale deposits which could transform the future prospects of Israel, the Middle East and our allies around the world.”
For Israel to seek to exploit mineral reserves in the occupied Golan Heights is plainly illegal in international law. Japan was succesfully sued by Singapore before the International Court of Justice for exploitation of Singapore’s oil resources during the second world war.
The argument has been made in international law that an occupying power is entitled to operate oil wells which were previously functioning and operated by the sovereign power, in whose position the occupying power now stands.
But there is absolutely no disagreement in the authorities and case law that the drilling of new wells – let alone fracking – by an occupying power is illegal.
Israel tried to make the same move twenty years ago but was forced to back down after a strong reaction from the Syrian government, which gained diplomatic support from the United States. Israel is now seeking to take advantage of the weakened Syrian state; this move perhaps casts a new light on recent Israeli bombings in Syria.
In a rational world, the involvement of Rothschild and Murdoch in this international criminal activity would show them not to be fit and proper persons to hold major commercial interests elsewhere, and action would be taken. Naturally, nothing of the kind will happen.

 

[muir]

A look at how centrally controlled the heavily scripted corporate media is:

[video=youtube;9R9oJZswV6Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R9oJZswV6Y[/video]