Are we as a society being kept from discussing the big issues?

@muir . I hope not to interrupt your train of thought. You mentioned the Rothschild group. I over heard someone talking about a super group of people that meet up once a year or something like that. But apparently this group is like the soul keeper of everything of power. What I mean by that, apparently they the group which apparently I was also told included rothschild. Pretty much are the real rulers of the world? Have you heard of this group? Your thoughts. I hope this doesn't confuse you my question. Or that you mention this before but I didn't see it.

I think you can look at this thing on a variety of levels

Its like we are all climbing a mountain...the perception mountain

Some people are higher up the mountain and they can see a little further than others. Sometimes they shout down to others and say ''you can climb up this way'' and that speeds up that persons process

I am by no means at the top of the mountain. In fact because my perceptions of how things are have been shattered so many times i am now very aware of the fact that actually i really know nothing lol....which i'm quite happy with because it makes life an ongoing journey of discovery...a true adventure in its purest sense

There used to be this comedy programme on british TV called 'red dwarf'. It was about a group of misfits and losers who were stranded in space. This was on before the matrix films came out. There was this one episode where their space craft began passing through a field of pockets of unreality

Every time they hit a pocket of unreality their perceptions became so messed up that they were in another reality

In one reality they woke up from a virtual simulation game and found they were not who they really thought they were. They had new identities that they then had to deal with as well as the new knowledge (albeit false) that their entire lives as they had known it upto that point had been nothing but a simulation

The gnostics wrote in their ancient texts as did the hindus that this reality is illusiory

So as far as i'm concerned all possibilites are on the table. For all we know we might already be plugged into some sort of computer system much like the one kaku outlines in the clip i posted earlier

What do we really know?

This move they seem to be making along 'transhumanism' lines where they seem intent to plug us all into a giant computer like the borg....maybe we are already in one and they are going to do it to us in our virtual reality....you know like in the film 'inception'....a dream within a dream

As far as this consensus reality goes that you and i are currently communicating in it is pretty clear that there is a nexus between big banking (run by the central bankers) and big oil and that these two groups seem to have control over the political apparatus of certain countries

Ok...some might be satisfied with that explanation....but who are big banking and who are big oil?

Sure we can point to the corporations that make up big banking like goldman sachs or J.P.Morgan or bank of america and we can point to big oil companies like BP or Esso but again we can ask who are behind these corporations?

We can then start looking at who runs these companies but then again we can ask 'ok but who pays the wages of those people and who owns the shares of the companies?'

When you keep tracing things back up the money chain they lead to certain groups

I think the group yo are referring to is the bilderburg group. this group contains the royals and aristocrats of europe, the old money families, the big oil execs, the big bankers (the wallstreet guys are known as 'the masters of the universe'), current heads of state and heads of state yet to be.

The old money families are often members of the 'black nobility' which are old money families with ties to the vatican church

There are many different forums that these people meet in though and like a temple they have different compartments. As you move closer and closer to the holy of holys the numbers of high preists get smaller and smaller

So for example there is talk of a council of 12

There is also a line where things blur....this physical reality blurs with another dimension

I'm not going to speculate here about what that dimension is. Some people on this forum might say that it is our collective unconscious for example, but the people at the top of the pyramid are claiming their authority from a higher power, just like jesus did, mohammed did, crowley did, blavatksy did, gurdjieff did etc

Some call this higher power 'the great white brotherhood', others call it lucifer, some the demiurge, or the secret chiefs etc

In the matrix neo meets the architect....in freemasonry god is the architect of the universe...the gnostic demiurge who created this reality we are all in

The square and compass of the freemasons are the tools of the architect. The big 'G' stands for geometry...sacred geometry. the building blocks of our illusiory reality

the gnostic mystic and poet william blake painted god as follows; note the compass in his hand:

Blake_ancient_of_days.webp
 
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[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION].Yes I believe it was the bilderburg group. Well I'm weak in the political aspect of the world. I seem to be stuck at the front door trying to figure out what happened while everyone is in the back yard going at it lol. thanks for the info, the thread is good but it takes time to comb through in the reading aspect, plus some of the info scares me lol. Politics is a scary world to me, I'm far to naive in the political world.
 
@muir .Yes I believe it was the bilderburg group. Well I'm weak in the political aspect of the world. I seem to be stuck at the front door trying to figure out what happened while everyone is in the back yard going at it lol. thanks for the info, the thread is good but it takes time to comb through in the reading aspect, plus some of the info scares me lol. Politics is a scary world to me, I'm far to naive in the political world.

I think there seems to be two groups. there are those that want to stay in platos cave and there are those that want to leave

The more open someones mind is the more robust it will be in the face of constant change

Its the object that won't bend in the wind that breaks; its those that cling rigidly to old perceptions of reality that find it jarring when that perception of reality finally explodes in their face under the weight of new evidence

'be like the water'- Bruce Lee

...just keep on flowing...its all a ride

Its about letting go.....the ones who turn to the dark side are the ones that can't let go...they cling too tightly to things, whether its money, power, perceptions of reality, material things, self image etc
 
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[video=youtube;OArf62Q_WZM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OArf62Q_WZM[/video]
 
Please don't missrepresent what i am saying

What I am sayin is that people are being lead away from the important issues

How are they being led away from the important issues when there are more 'news' sources available than ever before? There's less censorship now than ever before... I don't understand how you can argue that information is being controlled or people are being manipulated when there are laws that protect people's rights to be more informed than ever. Are you saying that people shouldn't be free to criticize things that they don't agree with because they're wrong to disagree? Or that they shouldn't be allowed to ignore thngs that they have no interest in? Or disbelieve things that they don't find believable? Are you a fascist? Do you hate free speech? Do you hate information? Or do you just hate the fact that people are allowed to disagree with you?

People don't just laugh off conspiracy sites because of their reputations... sure that's a part of it, but people also laugh them off because they're sketchy with their facts, hyper-sensationalistic and manipulative... it's how they make money. You seem to have this thing about anyone who disagree with you being a brainwashed slave or part of a shadowy conspiracy... maybe they just don't want to jump to conclusions? OR they have a legitimate reason for believing what they believe? Or they've given ample consideration to the other side and simply don't have enough time to sift through all of the ridiculous, sensationalist bullshit in order to get to the one microscopic grain of truth in what is being said?

But then, that's just my opinion-- luckily, the people who take David Icke and Alex Jones seriously are still free to take them seriously. Explain why you think that the other media doesn't have the same right to exist. Are you saying that we should force everyone to listen to ONLY the angry white men who sell doomsday prepping gear online? That we should outlaw all 'mainstream' news outlets because a handful of people think they're lying? Why should only the 'alternative' sources should have a say? Do you think people are too stupid to know how to make their own decisions? Or is it just that you're smarter than most other people? Or is this you being upset because some people don't take you seriously?
 
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My perspective here is that your drive to get your message across and "wake up the masses" trumps social etiquette, and often overrules any respect you may have for the fact that a fair amount of folks here, regardless of whether or not they agree with you, simply don't care to hear your message.

People come here for more reasons than to be educated and informed about global oppression. A lot of them like to joke around, share parts of their lives with each other, and feel free to talk about a broad range of topics at whatever level of detail that they wish. You, however, tend to interact almost exclusively in a lecturing format. You are perfectly free to do that, but as you can see, it wears on some folks, especially when you drag the majority of news/politics threads inevitably into your key theme of:

1)zionists
2)elite
3)central banks
4)secret societies

I've looked at the news and politics forum, and in about 80% of threads, you are always drawing the discussion towards this theme. I'm guessing that what is wearing on people is that for all of the supposed proof that you're providing, the large volume of your posts and the content of the videos boils down to this simple statement:

"It's all because of the zionist elites and secret societies that are seeking to oppress the masses via central banks and government."

The thing is, the mountains of material that you post in order to prove it is irrelevant to most folks, because they already know that this is the message that you want to get across. They have known it, because that's all that you ever tend to say, and it's been that way for quite some time. I think that a big part of the problem comes from the fact that you seem to think that if people are irritated with, or dismissive of your message, that dumping more mountains of info on them will change their minds and make them receptive. This is where your approach seems to run into a wall in that there's a lack of creativity. In some ways, you've been your own worst enemy in desensitizing people to what you have to say by providing too much of the same information in a format that is becoming boring and/or irritating: text walls and videos. Re-sensitizing people to that cannot be done by maintaining or increasing the volume of material that you're posting. You've burned a lot of people out on that approach, and unless you start thinking outside the box with regard to your own modus operandi, which you are often wont to tell other forumites, things aren't going to improve.

You likened your peers in the news threads to people staring closely at the bricks of a wall and wondering what they are looking at, not realizing that they are looking at a wall. You went on to liken yourself to the one trying to tell them "Dude, it's a wall". That's noble, but also a bit arrogant tbh. I'd submit alternatively that perhaps a lot of us are more like microbiologists looking at things under a microscope, while perhaps your specialty is in biome research, or "the big picture" as you'd put it. They're trying to research something specific, and you're constantly shouting at them that "HEY, THIS IS HOW THE WHOLE ECOSYSTEM RUNS!!! WHY AREN'T YOU GUYS LISTENING??? WAKE UP!!!! I'LL PROVE IT! LOOK AT THIS, LISTEN TO THIS!!!" So, if you were a microbiologist and you were trying, well within your rights, to do some field research on the behavior of a specific organism while Mr. Biome is shouting at you, how fucking annoying would that be? And if you told Mr. Biome "Dude, could you please keep it down, we're trying to work on something here" and Mr. Biome replied "YOU'RE TRYING TO SILENCE ME!!!!!! WAKE UP!!! LOOK AT THIS VIDEO! READ THIS, YOU'LL SEE I'M RIGHT!!!" then you might start to understand their resentment.

However, you will not understand that resentment, and I think that this is the case, if it is your ardent belief that the delivery and acceptance of your viewpoint must be realized here, at infjsf of all places, a forum for typology and general social interaction. Moreso if you believe that you have little or nothing to learn from your peers. Though you claim to be quite receptive to anyone who has alternate perspectives to what you say, you don't really exhibit much evidence that you're actually thinking about it or questioning your own beliefs. I trust you've heard of the feeling of interacting with someone who is not really listening, but just waiting for their turn to speak.

Geez, as an INFJ I would think that along with the "big picture" mentality, you would also be able to empathize with those who come here to chit-chat or engage in some light or focused discussion about current events. You're always lecturing. You don't really seem to take much interest in how that many individual people are doing, or what they're up to. If so, it's primarily superficial, and leading right back into the message that you want to send. You're so wrapped up in your own mission and viewpoint that you don't really seem to be aware, or to understand, how a room (thread) can clear out due to lack of interest, and you follow people into the next room and do the same thing again. And, if someone starts to express irritation, you interpret that as people trying to silence you (oppression) without realizing how you might be contributing to those reactions in some of our most quiet and (also) well-mannered members because you're not aware that not everyone can take your personality or approach in the doses that you're accustomed to providing. You're convinced that it's the other way around, and that it's everyone else who is too wrapped up in their own lives and worlds.

Joining dots and seeing patterns is not work for me...i think it is what i am wired to do

Not everyone needs to do this or has the time or inclination to do this....that's fine. All they need to do is turn off from the corporate media that is lying to them and start listening to the people who have begun piecing this puzzle together and i reference some of those people in my posts

Respect is really at the crux of this. Whether or not your view of "the big picture" is actually more important is not the problem. It's that you have decided that it is, and that you know all that people really need to do, who to listen to, etc. As a consequence of this, their concerns and way of looking at the world become less-important, and that shows in your posts, even if you don't say it outright, but you have expressed it in ways such as the brick wall analogy. Your interests are more important than theirs. You know what's good for them. They just don't listen or they want to silence you because you're speaking the truth. Regardless of your intentions, noble as they may be, there is an inherent lack of respect in such an attitude that will ultimately place you on equal footing with those you're speaking out against.

As an introvert, you ought to know how draining it can be when someone who is a hardcore enthusiast in a given subject catches you, or the group of friends that you're with, and proceeds to talk your ear off. That's pretty much what's happening as I see it. I can also hear your frustration in that you are trying to get people to see the bigger picture, but first and foremost, realize that the frustration of not being listened-to goes both ways.

If nothing else, consider this:

1) In your urgency and conviction, you occasionally treat people as much like intellectual sheep as the powers that you're seeking to awaken them to.
2) Retaining your composure in posts does not equate to being respectful of your peers
3) Up your creativity in how you bring your message across, because right now you're a broken record which is starting to irritate your peers and place you needlessly at odds with forum rules.
4) Give respect to the human element, and take more than a cursory interest in your peers, who they are, and what matters to them, if you want respect in turn.
5) Accept the fact that the process of cultivating reciprocal relationships in which peers are receptive to your message will be hindered by your reluctance to reveal anything substantial about your own life.
6) Some folks will disagree, some folks will agree wholeheartedly, and some folks agree but they just don't care as much as you. Pounding them over the head with the same message will not better your case.

Fwiw....
 
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To build on my last post a bit, I think there is a big move to bring awareness via the Internet but there is an equal and opposite move to avoid taking the necessary risks to do the actual changing. People seem to think that sharing youtube and fb post is getting something done, but i can see that it is not working here in America. I think you really have to get in people's face 1 on 1 and have a conversation, I'm talking about doing some leg work and handing out flyers and irl interaction. Fb and YouTube is easily glossed over. I don't really think that collecting signatures is even effective anymore. If I got 10,000 signatures or $10,000+ dollars from a guy who wants to influence me I know I would pick the money if I was any type of politician.

what would really be best I think is to introduce a little ( a lot) of instability in everyone's lives.
 
How are they being led away from the important issues when there are more 'news' sources available than ever before?

Those news sources are springing up as a reaction to the issues not being discussed

There's less censorship now than ever before...

No they are trying to control the internet for example with PIPA, ACTA, SOPA and so on

I don't understand how you can argue that information is being controlled or people are being manipulated when there are laws that protect people's rights to be more informed than ever. Are you saying that people shouldn't be free to criticize things that they don't agree with because they're wrong to disagree?

I'm kind of saying two things. One is that the mainstream steers people away from certain issues and the second thing is that certain areas of discussion have been made taboo

Or that they shouldn't be allowed to ignore thngs that they have no interest in? Or disbelieve things that they don't find believable? Are you a fascist? Do you hate free speech? Do you hate information? Or do you just hate the fact that people are allowed to disagree with you?

You are missrepresenting me here again....you don't need to do that. I am saying that people tell you to shut up when you talk about certain things

People don't just laugh off conspiracy sites because of their reputations... sure that's a part of it, but people also laugh them off because they're sketchy with their facts, hyper-sensationalistic and manipulative... it's how they make money. You seem to have this thing about anyone who disagree with you being a brainwashed slave or part of a shadowy conspiracy... maybe they just don't want to jump to conclusions? OR they have a legitimate reason for believing what they believe? Or they've given ample consideration to the other side and simply don't have enough time to sift through all of the ridiculous, sensationalist bullshit in order to get to the one microscopic grain of truth in what is being said?

If they have a legitimate reason then they should state it and see if it then stands up to examination....but thats not what is happening. What happens is they insult and ridicule and DON'T DEAL WITH THE ISSUES AT ALL

But then, that's just my opinion-- luckily, the people who take David Icke and Alex Jones seriously are still free to take them seriously. Explain why you think that the other media doesn't have the same right to exist. Are you saying that we should force everyone to listen to ONLY the angry white men who sell doomsday prepping gear online? That we should outlaw all 'mainstream' news outlets because a handful of people think they're lying? Why should only the 'alternative' sources should have a say? Do you think people are too stupid to know how to make their own decisions? Or is it just that you're smarter than most other people? Or is this you being upset because some people don't take you seriously?

You should watch the 4 clips i posted at the start of this thread because you have done every ploy that gets pointed out

You have tried to missrepresent what i'm saying, you have played the ''do you think your smarters than everyone else'' card and you have fired so many points at me in a short time that it becomes difficult to then pick them apart
 
My perspective here is that your drive to get your message across and "wake up the masses" trumps social etiquette, and often overrules any respect you may have for the fact that a fair amount of folks here, regardless of whether or not they agree with you, simply don't care to hear your message.

There are many messages on this forum. Some we as individuals are interested in and some we are not. There are all sorts of things being discussed here

I don't post on most parts of the forum because i have no interest in them. I post pretty narrowly really.

But if there is a discussion going on on the political, religious, financial etc side of things then i like to contribute

If they don't care to hear what i'm saying, why do they keep reading it? And that goes for you as well. if you aren't interested in anything i have to say then don't read my posts

People come here for more reasons than to be educated and informed about global oppression. A lot of them like to joke around, share parts of their lives with each other, and feel free to talk about a broad range of topics at whatever level of detail that they wish.

Yeah perhaps a thread discussing whether or not to go to war in syria which might spark off a far larger war might be one of the places where people can be a little more serious?

You, however, tend to interact almost exclusively in a lecturing format. You are perfectly free to do that, but as you can see, it wears on some folks, especially when you drag the majority of news/politics threads inevitably into your key theme of:

1)zionists
2)elite
3)central banks
4)secret societies

I've looked at the news and politics forum, and in about 80% of threads, you are always drawing the discussion towards this theme.

That is because those factors are at the centre of those issues

You say its wearing on some folks but what you are not taking into account is that there are also many folks who are interested. Thats right they rep me, give me thumbs up and discuss matters by PM. If you guys hadn't zapped the lightsabers my rep bar would be full

I'm guessing that what is wearing on people is that for all of the supposed proof that you're providing, the large volume of your posts and the content of the videos boils down to this simple statement:

"It's all because of the zionist elites and secret societies that are seeking to oppress the masses via central banks and government."

The thing is, the mountains of material that you post in order to prove it is irrelevant to most folks, because they already know that this is the message that you want to get across. They have known it, because that's all that you ever tend to say, and it's been that way for quite some time. I think that a big part of the problem comes from the fact that you seem to think that if people are irritated with, or dismissive of your message, that dumping more mountains of info on them will change their minds and make them receptive. This is where your approach seems to run into a wall in that there's a lack of creativity. In some ways, you've been your own worst enemy in desensitizing people to what you have to say by providing too much of the same information in a format that is becoming boring and/or irritating: text walls and videos. Re-sensitizing people to that cannot be done by maintaining or increasing the volume of material that you're posting. You've burned a lot of people out on that approach, and unless you start thinking outside the box with regard to your own modus operandi, which you are often wont to tell other forumites, things aren't going to improve.

There is a reason for that though....when you talk to someone about these issues you can see pretty quickly where they are in their perceptions.

They will say something either before i post or in response to a post of mine and i will think ''ok they need to see this bit of info to fill i that part of the puzzle''

Sure that might be boring for those that already have that piece of the puzzle but they don;t need to read it.

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO WRITE A POST THAT IS GOING TO BE EVERYTHING TO EVERYONE. A lot of the time my posts are directed at one or two people NOT everyone

There are also new members who have not read some of the stuff

You likened your peers in the news threads to people staring closely at the bricks of a wall and wondering what they are looking at, not realizing that they are looking at a wall. You went on to liken yourself to the one trying to tell them "Dude, it's a wall". That's noble, but also a bit arrogant tbh.

I think to call someone stupid would be arrogance because that implies that someone is smarter than someone else. but to say someone is ignorant is not arrogance because ignorance is a temporary condition...it is not fixed

If someone can't see a picture because their face is up against it then all they need to do is pull back from it.

I said that about the wall to defend why i was taking a broader view at an issue. i was getting hassled around that time that i was being ''off topic'' and i was trying to say that the issue couldn't be understood if looked at too narrowly

I'd submit alternatively that perhaps a lot of us are more like microbiologists looking at things under a microscope, while perhaps your specialty is in biome research, or "the big picture" as you'd put it. They're trying to research something specific, and you're constantly shouting at them that "HEY, THIS IS HOW THE WHOLE ECOSYSTEM RUNS!!! WHY AREN'T YOU GUYS LISTENING??? WAKE UP!!!! I'LL PROVE IT! LOOK AT THIS, LISTEN TO THIS!!!" So, if you were a microbiologist and you were trying, well within your rights, to do some field research on the behavior of a specific organism while Mr. Biome is shouting at you, how fucking annoying would that be? And if you told Mr. Biome "Dude, could you please keep it down, we're trying to work on something here" and Mr. Biome replied "YOU'RE TRYING TO SILENCE ME!!!!!! WAKE UP!!! LOOK AT THIS VIDEO! READ THIS, YOU'LL SEE I'M RIGHT!!!" then you might start to understand their resentment.

If you are trying to understand what is happening in the middle east without looking into things like: oil, or currencies (and banking in general) or the relationship between the US and israel then frankly you need a wake up call

From my perspective i see people going around and around in cricles and never discussing the elephant in the room and that is what this thread is abiut. its about saying ''look guys there are endless discussions in all these threads but is anyone really touching on what is behind all this stuff? And maybe if we do really want to understand what is going on, maybe we could be looking into that? You now rather than just repeating what the corporate media is telling us is happening''

However, you will not understand that resentment, and I think that this is the case, if it is your ardent belief that the delivery and acceptance of your viewpoint must be realized here, at infjsf of all places, a forum for typology and general social interaction.

I would think that a gathering place for INFJ's would be a pretty reasonable place to discuss the big issues of the day.

If you really want to get down to it perhaps you should look into where the opposition to what i'm saying is coming from and see if there is a typological aspect to that...now that would be interesting....because i have noticed a pattern but i can't discuss it because it is one of those taboo subjects

Moreso if you believe that you have little or nothing to learn from your peers.

Not true....look at how few posts i've made in the time ive been here. that is because i spend most of my time listening. I also ask people about stuff i don't know. I have said my perceptions are constantly evolving and have evolved in the time i've been here

Though you claim to be quite receptive to anyone who has alternate perspectives to what you say, you don't really exhibit much evidence that you're actually thinking about it or questioning your own beliefs. I trust you've heard of the feeling of interacting with someone who is not really listening, but just waiting for their turn to speak.

if you look at the exchanges i have you will notice that the evidence i provide (if you actually look at it) is targeted to EXACTLY the points they have raised. This is because i have LISTENED to each of their points and then dealt with each of them

Usually i am on ground i am sure of...when i'm not on ground i'm sure of i tend to stay quiet, listen and learn

Geez, as an INFJ I would think that along with the "big picture" mentality, you would also be able to empathize with those who come here to chit-chat or engage in some light or focused discussion about current events.

There's nothing light about genocide or potential nuclear war. i'd also say my contributions are pretty focussed

You're always lecturing. You don't really seem to take much interest in how that many individual people are doing, or what they're up to.

I have learnt a lot from the forum

I have kept a distance though thats true. i think it enables a bit more freedom to discuss the weightier topics. If a person starts representing themself here rather than say a persona such as 'muir' then immediately they have to start tailoring their behaviour to fit what you called above the 'social etiquette' and imediately the conversation becomes stilted. When it becomes more personal then people become more self conscious and they start policing themselves more; not much use if you want to discuss the more controversial issues

If you want to be talking abot some far out there or controversial stuff you can't be worrying about will such and such think youre a dick or a weirdo....it starts to stifle intellectual freedom, but at the same time i appreciate tht it can cause issues in a community

But at the same time there are a lot of great people here who i respect a lot

If so, it's primarily superficial, and leading right back into the message that you want to send. You're so wrapped up in your own mission and viewpoint that you don't really seem to be aware, or to understand, how a room (thread) can clear out due to lack of interest, and you follow people into the next room and do the same thing again. And, if someone starts to express irritation, you interpret that as people trying to silence you (oppression) without realizing how you might be contributing to those reactions in some of our most quiet and (also) well-mannered members because you're not aware that not everyone can take your personality or approach in the doses that you're accustomed to providing. You're convinced that it's the other way around, and that it's everyone else who is too wrapped up in their own lives and worlds.

No actually i think its because they don't want to get down to the core of things.

So many of the posts here are people talking about symptomatic problems but very few people are talking about the core problems that would then lead to a solution

I see so much of what people are talking about here relating back to this core thing i am trying to get across. i think once it is understood it then makes sense of everything else. I also think once a peron can consciously understand that then they are able to then navigate their way through the world

Respect is really at the crux of this. Whether or not your view of "the big picture" is actually more important is not the problem. It's that you have decided that it is, and that you know all that people really need to do, who to listen to, etc. As a consequence of this, their concerns and way of looking at the world become less-important, and that shows in your posts, even if you don't say it outright, but you have expressed it in ways such as the brick wall analogy. Your interests are more important than theirs. You know what's good for them. They just don't listen or they want to silence you because you're speaking the truth. Regardless of your intentions, noble as they may be, there is an inherent lack of respect in such an attitude that will ultimately place you on equal footing with those you're speaking out against.

I disagree

I have had at various times people take a sledgehammer to my perceptions. Sure it might have stung my pride a little at the time but afterwards i was always grateful because i realised that not only did it broaden my horizons but it also made more sense of the world which in turn helped me figure out my place in it and a way through it

Is it really disrespectful to take the time to write out a well thought out post dealing with all the points a person has raised?

Is this really a respect issue or is it an issue of bruised pride?

As an introvert, you ought to know how draining it can be when someone who is a hardcore enthusiast in a given subject catches you, or the group of friends that you're with, and proceeds to talk your ear off. That's pretty much what's happening as I see it. I can also hear your frustration in that you are trying to get people to see the bigger picture, but first and foremost, realize that the frustration of not being listened-to goes both ways.

Yeah but i DO LISTEN. Look if you are going to accuse me of stuff at least accuse me of the right stuff

If nothing else, consider this:

1) In your urgency and conviction, you occasionally treat people as much like intellectual sheep as the powers that you're seeking to awaken them to.

What often happens is they say something in response to my post...sometimes this is provocative and sometimes it isn't...sometimes it is just them expressing their view and i will then provdie them with some info showing why i hold the view i have just expressed. What becomes frustrating is that some people, despite starting a dialogue with me, don't then look at that...they often just become dismissive

So this thread is largely about looking at why people are not dealing with the issues

I think @the is saying some interestig stuff in this thread to answer that (which i have thumbed up...because i have been LISTENING)
2) Retaining your composure in posts does not equate to being respectful of your peers

I think it is a damn sight more respectful than telling someone they should be gassed, bombed or bum raped which is what was said in the last thread by a self declared member of the israeli military

3) Up your creativity in how you bring your message across, because right now you're a broken record which is starting to irritate your peers and place you needlessly at odds with forum rules.

That's what this thread is...its trying to move the conversation closer to the core in a thread that will allow people more freedom of discussion because it allows for the bigger picture

Rules are usually such that their application is entriely upto the people who hold the authority. In the UK the police can arrest someone under 'breach of the peace'. this could involve someone joyriding or it could be something as small as someone shouting in the street....it really comes down to how draconian the imposer of the law want to be

I do think the staff have been pretty reasonable although you have said to me before when i answered a post of yours that was telling me off that you were not willing to discuss the matter publically and yet you have made this very public statement here...just something to think about while we're talking about respect

4) Give respect to the human element, and take more than a cursory interest in your peers, who they are, and what matters to them, if you want respect in turn.

i don't think respect should need to operate on a personal level....i have said this elsewhere recently

I think a person should pay attention to what is being said NOT how a person is presenting

This has always been one of the concerns about politics hasn't it that the public will just vote for the most handsome candidate. That would be going for style over substance. The problem is the handsome candidate might be a total psychopath whilst a less attractive candidate might be the most compassionate person in the room

if you start attaching personal feelings to the people in a debate then you will start thinking in ways such as ''i will agree with that person because they are my friend not because i actually agree with what they are saying'' or ''i will disagree with that person because i don't like them'' and so on

I on the other hand rep people for posts i agree with whether or not they like me or i like them. That is a far more objective approach.

I would say people on the whole not just in this forum but irl need to start looking at what really matters and not be razzle dazzled by the other stuff

5) Accept the fact that the process of cultivating reciprocal relationships in which peers are receptive to your message will be hindered by your reluctance to reveal anything substantial about your own life.

lol come on man....you know my deepest hopes and fears....you know me pretty damn well

6) Some folks will disagree, some folks will agree wholeheartedly, and some folks agree but they just don't care as much as you. Pounding them over the head with the same message will not better your case.

Fwiw....

I think we all need to decide what sort of threads we are interested in reading and within those threads which posts we want to pay attention to

That said the recent syria thread has lead me to change my approach. I have since only posted in my blog or in a thread that i have created

If we go on your theory that people aren't interested in what i'm saying then we can be sure that none of those people have come into this thread....right?

So i have already without you prompting changed my behaviour
 
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My perspective here is that your drive to get your message across and "wake up the masses" trumps social etiquette, and often overrules any respect you may have for the fact that a fair amount of folks here, regardless of whether or not they agree with you, simply don't care to hear your message.

People come here for more reasons than to be educated and informed about global oppression. A lot of them like to joke around, share parts of their lives with each other, and feel free to talk about a broad range of topics at whatever level of detail that they wish. You, however, tend to interact almost exclusively in a lecturing format. You are perfectly free to do that, but as you can see, it wears on some folks, especially when you drag the majority of news/politics threads inevitably into your key theme of:

1)zionists
2)elite
3)central banks
4)secret societies

I've looked at the news and politics forum, and in about 80% of threads, you are always drawing the discussion towards this theme. I'm guessing that what is wearing on people is that for all of the supposed proof that you're providing, the large volume of your posts and the content of the videos boils down to this simple statement:

"It's all because of the zionist elites and secret societies that are seeking to oppress the masses via central banks and government."

The thing is, the mountains of material that you post in order to prove it is irrelevant to most folks, because they already know that this is the message that you want to get across. They have known it, because that's all that you ever tend to say, and it's been that way for quite some time. I think that a big part of the problem comes from the fact that you seem to think that if people are irritated with, or dismissive of your message, that dumping more mountains of info on them will change their minds and make them receptive. This is where your approach seems to run into a wall in that there's a lack of creativity. In some ways, you've been your own worst enemy in desensitizing people to what you have to say by providing too much of the same information in a format that is becoming boring and/or irritating: text walls and videos. Re-sensitizing people to that cannot be done by maintaining or increasing the volume of material that you're posting. You've burned a lot of people out on that approach, and unless you start thinking outside the box with regard to your own modus operandi, which you are often wont to tell other forumites, things aren't going to improve.

You likened your peers in the news threads to people staring closely at the bricks of a wall and wondering what they are looking at, not realizing that they are looking at a wall. You went on to liken yourself to the one trying to tell them "Dude, it's a wall". That's noble, but also a bit arrogant tbh. I'd submit alternatively that perhaps a lot of us are more like microbiologists looking at things under a microscope, while perhaps your specialty is in biome research, or "the big picture" as you'd put it. They're trying to research something specific, and you're constantly shouting at them that "HEY, THIS IS HOW THE WHOLE ECOSYSTEM RUNS!!! WHY AREN'T YOU GUYS LISTENING??? WAKE UP!!!! I'LL PROVE IT! LOOK AT THIS, LISTEN TO THIS!!!" So, if you were a microbiologist and you were trying, well within your rights, to do some field research on the behavior of a specific organism while Mr. Biome is shouting at you, how fucking annoying would that be? And if you told Mr. Biome "Dude, could you please keep it down, we're trying to work on something here" and Mr. Biome replied "YOU'RE TRYING TO SILENCE ME!!!!!! WAKE UP!!! LOOK AT THIS VIDEO! READ THIS, YOU'LL SEE I'M RIGHT!!!" then you might start to understand their resentment.

However, you will not understand that resentment, and I think that this is the case, if it is your ardent belief that the delivery and acceptance of your viewpoint must be realized here, at infjsf of all places, a forum for typology and general social interaction. Moreso if you believe that you have little or nothing to learn from your peers. Though you claim to be quite receptive to anyone who has alternate perspectives to what you say, you don't really exhibit much evidence that you're actually thinking about it or questioning your own beliefs. I trust you've heard of the feeling of interacting with someone who is not really listening, but just waiting for their turn to speak.

Geez, as an INFJ I would think that along with the "big picture" mentality, you would also be able to empathize with those who come here to chit-chat or engage in some light or focused discussion about current events. You're always lecturing. You don't really seem to take much interest in how that many individual people are doing, or what they're up to. If so, it's primarily superficial, and leading right back into the message that you want to send. You're so wrapped up in your own mission and viewpoint that you don't really seem to be aware, or to understand, how a room (thread) can clear out due to lack of interest, and you follow people into the next room and do the same thing again. And, if someone starts to express irritation, you interpret that as people trying to silence you (oppression) without realizing how you might be contributing to those reactions in some of our most quiet and (also) well-mannered members because you're not aware that not everyone can take your personality or approach in the doses that you're accustomed to providing. You're convinced that it's the other way around, and that it's everyone else who is too wrapped up in their own lives and worlds.



Respect is really at the crux of this. Whether or not your view of "the big picture" is actually more important is not the problem. It's that you have decided that it is, and that you know all that people really need to do, who to listen to, etc. As a consequence of this, their concerns and way of looking at the world become less-important, and that shows in your posts, even if you don't say it outright, but you have expressed it in ways such as the brick wall analogy. Your interests are more important than theirs. You know what's good for them. They just don't listen or they want to silence you because you're speaking the truth. Regardless of your intentions, noble as they may be, there is an inherent lack of respect in such an attitude that will ultimately place you on equal footing with those you're speaking out against.

As an introvert, you ought to know how draining it can be when someone who is a hardcore enthusiast in a given subject catches you, or the group of friends that you're with, and proceeds to talk your ear off. That's pretty much what's happening as I see it. I can also hear your frustration in that you are trying to get people to see the bigger picture, but first and foremost, realize that the frustration of not being listened-to goes both ways.

If nothing else, consider this:

1) In your urgency and conviction, you occasionally treat people as much like intellectual sheep as the powers that you're seeking to awaken them to.
2) Retaining your composure in posts does not equate to being respectful of your peers
3) Up your creativity in how you bring your message across, because right now you're a broken record which is starting to irritate your peers and place you needlessly at odds with forum rules.
4) Give respect to the human element, and take more than a cursory interest in your peers, who they are, and what matters to them, if you want respect in turn.
5) Accept the fact that the process of cultivating reciprocal relationships in which peers are receptive to your message will be hindered by your reluctance to reveal anything substantial about your own life.
6) Some folks will disagree, some folks will agree wholeheartedly, and some folks agree but they just don't care as much as you. Pounding them over the head with the same message will not better your case.

Fwiw....

I just know it's going to weigh heavily on my mind until I say something about this, so I will do it now.

People do not have to read muir's posts. He is not holding anyone down or shouting in their ears. All they have to do is keep scrolling if they aren't interested in reading his posts.

People also have the ignore function to their disposal.

It is other people who chose to respond angrily. They CHOSE to do it themselves, instead of responding calmly or resorting to the options I mentioned above.


There are tons of lurker hermit introverts on this forum who are shit at forming personal relationships and you do not really have any proof to show that muir hasn't interacted with others on a personal basis privately (nevermind the fact that this is irrelevant and not something that anyone on here should be condemned for, a) because personal choices like this should be faced with acceptance and b) because forums are for intellectual discussion too for God's sake). Alternatively, 99% of us just use this forum to complain about our shitty feeler lives so I don't see how that's much better.

Have you ever considered that all of the effort he puts into posting all of this for everyone might be because he feels that it is important and is trying to help? If he instead never posted anything of this nature, that would imply disrespect stemming from the belief that others are not on his level of understanding. But that isn't the case. You THINK he's being disrespectful, but the only proof you have to offer is that a) he doesn't conform to the typical posting style on here hence "goes beyond social ettiquete" b) he is really into sharing his thoughts/findings and has occasionally said things towards the idea of wanting to help people see beyond their current level of perception. Point (a) is just stupid and point (b) is pretty tame.. not really substantial.

Telling him he's an INFJ so he should be all x and y not only is a fucking stupid use of MBTI but is a low blow. You're picking apart his character and assassinating it in front of everyone here. Like, you literally wrote a huge essay taking down a forum member, entirely made out by spewing dogmatic shit-talking, via a post irrelevant to the thread topic. This is really unnecessary and something you really should have told him over PM. It made me wonder whether or not you would have made this same post if you were still on forum staff.

All in all I was really disappointed to have read your post. I felt sick afterwards.

If muir leaves, I leave this forum too.
 
I find Muir's subject matter interesting.
I try to take everything with a grain of salt, but when you sit back and think about events in history over the past 100 years or so, I can't help but see a pattern that appears to be a means to an end carefully orchestrated and directed by others.

I'm not saying I buy into it all. I have always been and continue to be skeptical of conspiracy theories. Sometimes they seem too neat and tidy, but it is great food for thought. I keep an open mind.

Just because there are only a few people that actively participate in these threads with him doesn't mean there is no interest. I read the threads and posts but choose not to jump into the conversation because just as in my day to day life I tend to sit back, listen, and observe.
Perhaps I should post more, but I don't always feel I have much to add that would be meaningful.

I would hate to see Muir leave.
If he does, I sure would like to know where to find him.
Niffer too.
 
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If he does, I sure would like to know where to find him.
Niffer too.

I of course would be able to be found on every other typology forum within the online typology community and on Facebook, busy talking shit about what happened here on INFJs and why I left and why it's a shitty place--if it were to happen that is.
 
I just know it's going to weigh heavily on my mind until I say something about this, so I will do it now.

People do not have to read muir's posts. He is not holding anyone down or shouting in their ears. All they have to do is keep scrolling if they aren't interested in reading his posts.

People also have the ignore function to their disposal.

It is other people who chose to respond angrily. They CHOSE to do it themselves, instead of responding calmly or resorting to the options I mentioned above.


There are tons of lurker hermit introverts on this forum who are shit at forming personal relationships and you do not really have any proof to show that muir hasn't interacted with others on a personal basis privately (nevermind the fact that this is irrelevant and not something that anyone on here should be condemned for, a) because personal choices like this should be faced with acceptance and b) because forums are for intellectual discussion too for God's sake). Alternatively, 99% of us just use this forum to complain about our shitty feeler lives so I don't see how that's much better.

Have you ever considered that all of the effort he puts into posting all of this for everyone might be because he feels that it is important and is trying to help? If he instead never posted anything of this nature, that would imply disrespect stemming from the belief that others are not on his level of understanding. But that isn't the case. You THINK he's being disrespectful, but the only proof you have to offer is that a) he doesn't conform to the typical posting style on here hence "goes beyond social ettiquete" b) he is really into sharing his thoughts/findings and has occasionally said things towards the idea of wanting to help people see beyond their current level of perception. Point (a) is just stupid and point (b) is pretty tame.. not really substantial.

Telling him he's an INFJ so he should be all x and y not only is a fucking stupid use of MBTI but is a low blow. You're picking apart his character and assassinating it in front of everyone here. Like, you literally wrote a huge essay taking down a forum member, entirely made out by spewing dogmatic shit-talking, via a post irrelevant to the thread topic. This is really unnecessary and something you really should have told him over PM. It made me wonder whether or not you would have made this same post if you were still on forum staff.

All in all I was really disappointed to have read your post. I felt sick afterwards.

If muir leaves, I leave this forum too.

Let's get something clear first, I do not believe anyone has yet called or advocated for muir to be banned. If I am mistaken on account of speedily skimming through information, then I apologize. I am not, however, advocating such a thing.

As for the rest of your post, I'd agree with the statement to just ignore his behavior and letting it go, but not all circumstances are normal. Sometimes they are personal, and then people cannot just 'let it go'.

If Westboro Baptist Church had come to the funeral of one of your loved ones to prostelytize their political ideology while you were attempting to mourn and process your emotions, I'd like to see you act rationally.

He was temporaily banned following the Boston marathon bombing because he wanted to start ranting about how it was a false flag attack perpetrated by the government without any concern or sensitivity for anyone else's vulnerable state of mind.

He started in with the same shit after the Newtown school shootings wanting to portray it as a false flag attack.

He is blatantly hypocritical to anyone who tries to engage him socially, yet you would ask that people interact with him on a superficial level or ignore him completely as a form of taboo ostracism, correct?

Ok all i ask is that you give it a fair hearing

Its not paranoia if its true

He asks for fair consideration, but does not reciprocate a fair acknowledgment of other's views.

The clips explore how the interviewers do not talk about the issues AT ALL but instead simply try to disrupt what the professor is saying.

This primarily involved interrupting the interviewer constantly so that the interveiwer was prevented from expressing himself.

Words are energy and the interviewer couldn't get the words out, so the energy built up in him like a dam until eventually it burst out as anger

you have fired so many points at me in a short time that it becomes difficult to then pick them apart

Sound familiar? Something he acknowledges happening to other people, but never something that he engages with, am I right?

If you don't want a reply post from someone knowing that they disagree with you, then perhaps you shouldn't try and provoke a response from them?

He acknowledges that some posts can be disagreeable, possibly even inflammatory.

You can say what you like. But other people have the right to disagree with you

I am saying that people tell you to shut up when you talk about certain things

Yet, he would never acknowledge his own as being inflammatory even if the issue being discussed is a sensitive subject at the time of posting or that it is clear the person being discussed with is taking it personally; he refuses to let it go.

That's okay though, because by [MENTION=3998]niffer[/MENTION] 's reasoning everyone else should be expected to do so.

A lot of the time my posts are directed at one or two people NOT everyone

There are also new members who have not read some of the stuff

Oh, that's right! We forget about all the new people who have yet to be exposed to muir's special brand of social interaction. We can't let them miss one of muir's insights despite ALL of his posts remaining available which flood and derail any other sort of meaningful political discussion.

Most of the anger stems not from what is being said, but how he interacts with other people when we do try to include him into our social discussions. You advocate a dilemma!

If an attempt to include him into the conversation is given, then it oftentimes devolves into argument because of the way in which muir converses with others is blatantly hypocritical. This is not so bad, but if the person is emotionally invested in the issue at the time, then this invariably always leads to infractions and temporary bannings.

If on the other hand, we do as you say and ignore him, then that is no different then banning him except we leave open people who disagree with superficial and/or special treatment or who are unaware of the social ostracism that would be occuring.

Why don't we get to the crux of the taboo beliefs we have in this discussion. I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that most people here assume him to have some form of schizoid personality disorder in which we excuse and rationalize his inappropriate behavior, correct?

If not, then it would be a very easy matter to demonstrate his behavior is a clear-cut case of deliberate trolling and hence should be banned outright. No, we excuse his behavior for these and/or other unspoken reasons.

This is not an insult, nor is it intended as such. If you believe it to be an insult, then maybe you should reflect on how you construe your perceptions of other people. This is simply an opinion. My opinion, but one I believe may be shared by other members at this forum. I'm not against special treatment, but we have to acknowledge it or else it is UNFAIR treatment for everyone else.


People with SPD are often aloof, cold and indifferent, which causes interpersonal difficulty. Most individuals diagnosed with SPD have trouble establishing personal relationships or expressing their feelings in a meaningful way. They may remain passive in the face of unfavorable situations. Their communication with other people may be indifferent and concise at times. Because of their lack of meaningful communication with other people, those who are diagnosed with SPD are not able to develop accurate images of how well they get along with others.

Such images are believed to be important for a person's self-awareness and ability to assess the impact of their own actions in social situations. R.D. Laing suggests that when one is not enriched by injections of interpersonal reality, the self-image becomes increasingly empty and volatilized, which leads the individual to feel unreal.

When the individual's personal space is violated, they feel suffocated and feel the need to free themselves and be independent. People who have SPD tend to be happiest when they are in a relationship in which the partner places few emotional or intimate demands on them. It is not people as such that they want to avoid, but emotions both negative and positive, emotional intimacy, and self disclosure.

This means that it is possible for schizoid individuals to form relationships with others based on intellectual, physical, familial, occupational, or recreational activities as long as these modes of relating do not require or force the need for emotional intimacy, which the affected individual will reject. Donald Winnicott explains this need to modulate emotional interaction by saying that schizoid individuals "prefer to make relationships on their own terms and not in terms of the impulses of other people." Failing to attain that, they prefer isolation.

Many fundamentally schizoid individuals present with an engaging, interactive personality style that contradicts the observable characteristic emphasized by the DSM-IV and ICD-10 definitions of the schizoid personality. Klein classifies these individuals as "secret schizoids", who present themselves as socially available, interested, engaged and involved in interacting yet remain emotionally withdrawn and sequestered within the safety of the internal world.

Withdrawal or detachment from the outer world is a characteristic feature of schizoid (alleged) pathology, but may appear either in "classic" or in "secret" form. When classic, it matches the typical description of the schizoid personality offered in the DSM-IV. It is however "just as often" a hidden internal state: that which meets the objective eye may not match the subjective, internal world of the patient. Klein therefore cautions that one should not miss identifying the schizoid patient because one cannot see the patient's withdrawal through the patient's defensive, compensatory interaction with external reality. He suggests that one need only ask the patient what his or her subjective experience is in order to detect the presence of the schizoid refusal of emotional intimacy.

Descriptions of the schizoid personality as "hidden" behind an outward appearance of emotional engagement have been recognized as far back as 1940 with Fairbairn's description of "schizoid exhibitionism," in which the schizoid individual is able to express a great deal of feeling and to make what appear to be impressive social contacts yet in reality gives nothing and loses nothing. Because he is only "playing a part," his own personality is not involved. According to Fairbairn, "the person disowns the part which he is playing and thus the schizoid individual seeks to preserve his own personality intact and immune from compromise."

Further references to the secret schizoid come from Masud Khan, Jeffrey Seinfeld and Philip Manfield, who gives a palpable description of an SPD individual who actually "enjoys" regular public speaking engagements but experiences great difficulty in the breaks when audience members would attempt to engage him emotionally. These references expose the problems involved in relying singularly on outer observable behavior for assessing the presence of personality disorders in certain individuals.

What I am advocating for here is CLEAR CUT boundaries, as in times of emotional volatility he needs to keep to his blog (anyone interested in his ideas knows where to find them) and give other people a change to discuss, not for intellectual reasons, but for emotional reasons.

If the event is an ongoing one, such is the case with Syria currently, then he should be free to discuss until it is apparent that someone is clearly emotionally compromised and cannot behave appropriately and discontinue conversation until the following day.

I think if one wants to start a general discussion without his participation we could allow that option to be made in the initial post and he have to abide by it.

These rules I think are fair and balanced for everyone.
 
As for the rest of your post, I'd agree with the statement to just ignore his behavior and letting it go, but not all circumstances are normal. Sometimes they are personal, and then people cannot just 'let it go'.

If Westboro Baptist Church had come to the funeral of one of your loved ones to prostelytize their political ideology while you were attempting to mourn and process your emotions, I'd like to see you act rationally.

I acknowledge that some things he has said had affected people personally. But as for this analogy, there is no ignore function or scrolling past posts IRL, so it doesn't fit. You have time to process emotions before you hit the submit reply button on the forum.

He is blatantly hypocritical to anyone who tries to engage him socially, yet you would ask that people interact with him on a superficial level or ignore him completely as a form of taboo ostracism, correct?

I've never seen what you are talking about in the first bolded part. I don't know what you mean by this second bolded part.

He asks for fair consideration, but does not reciprocate a fair acknowledgment of other's views.

I've not seen this either. Honestly I just might not be observant enough so feel free to show me.

Sound familiar? Something he acknowledges happening to other people, but never something that he engages with, am I right?

He acknowledges that some posts can be disagreeable, possibly even inflammatory?

Yet, he would never acknowledge his own as being inflammatory even if the issue being discussed is a sensitive subject at the time of posting or that it is clear the person being discussed with is taking it personally; he refuses to let it go.

That's okay though, because by @niffer 's reasoning everyone else should be expected to do so.

They're general topics/issues and I think people should be free to discuss them whenever. I don't think it should be his fault that others are taking things personally. On the other hand, I do think taking an issue to a personal level and latching on to someone about it crosses the line.

Why don't we get to the crux of the taboo beliefs we have in this discussion. I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that most people here assume him to have some form of schizoid personality disorder in which we excuse and rationalize his inappropriate behavior, correct?

Um... I would not be included in this. o_O

If not, then it would be a very easy matter to demonstrate his behavior is a clear-cut case of deliberate trolling and hence should be banned outright. No, we excuse his behavior for these and/or other unspoken reasons.

This is not an insult, nor is it intended as such. If you believe it to be an insult, then maybe you should reflect on how you construe your perceptions of other people. This is simply an opinion. My opinion, but one I believe may be shared by other members at this forum. I'm not against special treatment, but we have to acknowledge it or else it is UNFAIR treatment for everyone else.

I don't see how this is some form of giving special treatment--you can understand why I think this based on my thoughts regarding some of the other ideas you posed.
 
This is why I quit posting around here. Give him a chance! I don't see anyone disproving him either. You wanna fix the world? Kill everyone. Get rid of the whole flipping lot of humans. Emotional beasts with no understanding. That's how I feel. Is it wrong? SURE IT IS to you! I find that the worst things that have ever been done to me have been because someone thought that they were being kind. Kindness can kill. It can manipulate. It can do all the things that evil can. To me they are in fact one and the same. Life has duality. Why do you have to be either?

America is what they call a Democracy. You get a majority rule and you win. The majority likes being in the majority. No one wants to be the minority unless you have the majority of the money. Then being the minority is ok cause you can buy the majority and make them work for you. Look in your pocket do you have some money in there. What is it's real value? It only has the value you asses to it. If the money has no value to you then it is useless. The more people that believe that money has value the more value it will have. And the more people that can be bought with that money.

The same can be said for feelings and emotions. Or whatever. Gotta go. E wants to watch u tube vids of motorcycles.

Muir keep on trucking. I understand exactly what your trying to do....
 
[MENTION=3998]niffer[/MENTION]

Seriously?

Not letting all my thoughts on this come out for a long time was part of my bitchy mood, as lame as that may sound. I keep getting told I shouldn't be bothered by it, but it's bothersome when people ignore the points I have to make and tell me that they are right and my observations are not and don't tell me why. Sometimes people will imply or even outright tell me that they think I'm in denial. Sometimes people exploit the fact that I'm asking for advice on my type to unleash their critical opinions of my character. Or to masturbate their own self-image of intelligence and guru-ness. And I don't want to discard their opinions and observations on the chance that they might be somewhat right and valid. It's not like it happens to only me, but it bothers me. I am bad at not being influenced by others' opinions in general.

You obviously are not very familiar with the established patterns of behavior that muir exhibits.

To be clear, muir does exactly what you claim bothers you, ndt by your own reasoning you shouldn't let it bother you and you should be able to manage yourself better.
 
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Hi folks

I just want to say thanks to those that have spoken out in support, i really appreciate that

I haven't invested a lot of time on the social side of things on the forum but that doesn't mean that i haven't had a meeting of minds with various people here. Although i haven't exchanged lots of personal info with people i have through an exchange of ideas and general info found that i am on the same wavelength at certain times as many other people (maybe not over everything i've said but over a fair amount of it) and that there is a bond of respect on that level; i know these people know what i mean

And to you Matt...you failed the name the curry in the buffet test so youre still suspect in my book! Or maybe its the fact that you told me to go fuck myself several times in consecutive posts only yesterday....yeah maybe thats why i am still a little wary of you lol

But if you are genuinely interested in what i am saying i am very happy to discuss these things with you man to man but without all the crap. When you were going to leave the forum i privately asked you to stay did i not...even though you and i had clashed in some debates?

You are not the first person i have clashed with here....some of them i never reconciled with but others i now exchange respectful comments with and positive reps. Who knows perhaps one of us might get some new info at some point that changes our perspective on things that then bridges that gap between us

I do however appreciate that my posts are often controversial and that perhaps they need to be kept in a certain place on the forum but at the same time its quite difficult when yo hear people talking about something and you feel you have that little piece of the puzzle thats going to take away the confusion....i know i'd want it

I left the syria thread to enable it to breathe and to allow other people plenty of room to put their views over but there hasn't been a lot of activity since. I don't think it would be too far off the mark to suggest that my posts were creating a fair bit of the activity
 
I don't think Muir's intended audience is the active forum membership. I think he is attempting to reach a wider audience and expose them to his ideas.

I think introverted intuitives are prone to believe in patterns that they can not deliniate in a transparent and logical fashion and are susceptible to the idea that the political system they are members of is being completely controlled by nefarious forces.

I think this is what happen to the younger brother accused in the marathon bombing. (though he seems to be an extrovert). So I feel obliged to point out, every now and then, that the more radical elements of his (muir's) arguments are largely unfounded. This is not to say that there are not economic elites who knowingly and actively try to subvert the political and economic systems to their ends. Its just that they are not destroying swaths of Manhattan and blaming it on innocent religious fundamentalists.

and it is Muir who attempts to shut down discussions, not always, by re posting garbage from paranoid sites.
 
Let's get something clear first, I do not believe anyone has yet called or advocated for muir to be banned. If I am mistaken on account of speedily skimming through information, then I apologize. I am not, however, advocating such a thing.

As for the rest of your post, I'd agree with the statement to just ignore his behavior and letting it go, but not all circumstances are normal. Sometimes they are personal, and then people cannot just 'let it go'.

If Westboro Baptist Church had come to the funeral of one of your loved ones to prostelytize their political ideology while you were attempting to mourn and process your emotions, I'd like to see you act rationally.

I posted my ideas at a funeral of one of your loved ones? When was this...i must have missed that matt. i think that sound slike a massive over exageration to me like the one done in the NLP clips i showed above

He was temporaily banned following the Boston marathon bombing because he wanted to start ranting about how it was a false flag attack perpetrated by the government without any concern or sensitivity for anyone else's vulnerable state of mind.

Personally i think the most respectful thing to do is for people to understand what happened and why it happened so that it can be prevented form happening again

If you read the info i posted about operation gladio and the stay behind armies of nato you would know that the CIA HAS been carrying out false flag terror attacks in order to manufacture the consent of the public

If you and most of the public in general continue to believe that your government are telling you the truth and acting in your best interests i promise you there will be more terrorist attacks....and someone doesn;t need to be psychic to predict that one....they just need to be paying attention

He started in with the same shit after the Newtown school shootings wanting to portray it as a false flag attack.

You have proof it wasn't? Are you so sure of the conspiracy theorys the government told you regarding these things?

He is blatantly hypocritical to anyone who tries to engage him socially, yet you would ask that people interact with him on a superficial level or ignore him completely as a form of taboo ostracism, correct?

Hypocritical how?

You know i hear you throw a lot of accusations around Matt but never anything to back them up

I mentioned this in my blog post about manipulation....this is the mud slinging approach where they throw lots of mud in the hope that it will stick in the minds of the listener

He asks for fair consideration, but does not reciprocate a fair acknowledgment of other's views.

Once again what are you talking about? Where is your example?

Sound familiar? Something he acknowledges happening to other people, but never something that he engages with, am I right?

No you are wrong and i can prove it. Anyone can go and see the threads i ahve been debating in. What they will see is me answering the posts of one or more people, one at a time, very calmly answering all the points they have raised.

I do however post interviews and articles to support what i am saying and i welcome you to do the same matt otherwise it just sounds like you are putting one more opinion out there on the webs without anything to back it up

He acknowledges that some posts can be disagreeable, possibly even inflammatory.

I find pretty much all of your posts disagreeable and the way you misslead people is pretty annoying, but i just calmly post the info that shows why your points are wrong

I'd say your insults and ridicule are inflamatory not to mention repeatedly tellingsomeone to go fuck themselves

Yet, he would never acknowledge his own as being inflammatory even if the issue being discussed is a sensitive subject at the time of posting or that it is clear the person being discussed with is taking it personally; he refuses to let it go.

I'm not going to not talk about Israel because an israeli asks me to. Jeez man do you not understand what the implications for society would be if we all did that?

That particular poster says i'm 'pushing his buttons' but what everyone else knows is that i was saying the same things before he was here and i'd be saying the same things if he wasn't here. I have a genuine thing to say about the syria situation and i'm not going to shut up because one or more person doesn't want to hear me say something bad about their government or the people who control it

We the people NEED to be able to speak about this stuff or we become powerless

That's okay though, because by @niffer 's reasoning everyone else should be expected to do so.

I think you are now trying to missrepresent niffer now as well

Oh, that's right! We forget about all the new people who have yet to be exposed to muir's special brand of social interaction. We can't let them miss one of muir's insights despite ALL of his posts remaining available which flood and derail any other sort of meaningful political discussion.

you only think they are a derailment because they disagree with your view as you can't yet see the truth in them. Niffer and many others can

Most of the anger stems not from what is being said, but how he interacts with other people when we do try to include him into our social discussions. You advocate a dilemma!

What social discussions am i being excluded from? What are you talking about?

If an attempt to include him into the conversation is given, then it oftentimes devolves into argument because of the way in which muir converses with others is blatantly hypocritical. This is not so bad, but if the person is emotionally invested in the issue at the time, then this invariably always leads to infractions and temporary bannings.

Oh i see what you are doing here....this is a good manipulative ploy this one.

Ok anyone who has been following the NLP clips above will have spotted this one. You are trying to portray me as excluded and you as included as a way to try and discredit me in the eys of the reader....well matt you should know from the people who have posted here in support of me that you are wrong about that. Added to that are the larger number of people i communicate with by PM who also get what i am saying

If on the other hand, we do as you say and ignore him, then that is no different then banning him except we leave open people who disagree with superficial and/or special treatment or who are unaware of the social ostracism that would be occuring.

Whats with the 'we' stuff pal....you're lookingpretty isolated in this thread

Why don't you speak for yourself and let everyone else think for themselves?

Why don't we get to the crux of the taboo beliefs we have in this discussion. I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that most people here assume him to have some form of schizoid personality disorder in which we excuse and rationalize his inappropriate behavior, correct?

Jut because you want to throw nasty accusations doesn't make them true matt....once again more mud being slung but NOTHING to back it up

I can see through what you are doing man....its all ther ein those NLP clips above and other people will be able to see as well

If not, then it would be a very easy matter to demonstrate his behavior is a clear-cut case of deliberate trolling and hence should be banned outright. No, we excuse his behavior for these and/or other unspoken reasons.

How am i trolling for discussing the issues?

Its YOU who are throwing insults and ridicule around and now trying to subconsciously throw the idea of banning out there now as well (that's called 'anchoring').....wow i could even make my own NLP manipualtion tecvhniques video from one of your posts!!!

This is not an insult, nor is it intended as such. If you believe it to be an insult, then maybe you should reflect on how you construe your perceptions of other people. This is simply an opinion. My opinion, but one I believe may be shared by other members at this forum. I'm not against special treatment, but we have to acknowledge it or else it is UNFAIR treatment for everyone else.

What are you talking about?

You are trying to say one thing while saying you are saying something else!!! Thats exactly what the guy was saying the NLP manipulation is all about in those clips! ''Dual meaning''

Are you guys seeing what he is doig here?


What I am advocating for here is CLEAR CUT boundaries, as in times of emotional volatility he needs to keep to his blog (anyone interested in his ideas knows where to find them) and give other people a change to discuss, not for intellectual reasons, but for emotional reasons.

You don't want anyone talking about the REAL issues. You know what Matt i wouldn't be suprised if you do work for the government

If the event is an ongoing one, such is the case with Syria currently, then he should be free to discuss until it is apparent that someone is clearly emotionally compromised and cannot behave appropriately and discontinue conversation until the following day.

So the first time someone like you who wants to control the focus of the discussion throws a little tantrum we all have to shut the fuck up? Yeah that would work well for you wouldn't it?

I think if one wants to start a general discussion without his participation we could allow that option to be made in the initial post and he have to abide by it.

These rules I think are fair and balanced for everyone.

How about we have an option to exclude NLP manipulators like you?
 
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