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Are you attracted to arrogance?
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StarsPer
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I can be really attracted to arrogance in rare occasions, just a certain.. well, ultimately something more along the lines of other words and behaviors; surely charisma, or moxy? I think it can often become hard to say where arrogance begins and charm ends? Or is it the other way around or.. 
In my experience, being able to appreciate, or even to be intoxicated by a certain arrogant charm can lead to some of the, if not the most, magnetic (and I think fair to say partially sexual) encounters or relationships I've had. Sometimes I have been the charmer, and sometimes another has been mine.
As fun as (from the get go) it may be, or may go; it does seem that the infatuated party is often severely lacking in a lot of definitions for their life, values, perspectives. This is really effing dangerous. From experience. In two of my relationships where I was the "charmer", these girls ended up becoming too invested in my own definition, and fast; making them theirs, and oft if not always prioritizing you way over themselves and this can (and seems rather designed to, considering the environment of the two people in each others lives now) lead to This has, in these few experiences, resolved itself exclusively in those partners becoming too uncomfortable (Healthy reaction!) with how much of that.. me-colored psychopaint is spreading itself all throughout the fundamentals of their identity.
In conclusion - If you are some sort of charming person as I already mentioned; be careful for people looking to latch onto your identity. You may have.. almost an aura of "empowered person" that the other is very sensitive to and magnetized by.
If you are the infatuated - The sooner (should be from the get go!) you are aware of these dangerous elements in that attraction, the safer things will go for everybody (My opinion/estimate.) If you know that you're in a pretty unusually cultivated predisposition to being strongly attracted to people who radiate certain sensations of self-certainty and confidence, you may have (if you intend to keep the relationship together long-term rather than focusing on keeping it together at the moment?) an interest in pacing things. And maybe in a manner that would feel a bit unorthodox for that person to try and just intuitively piece together and know how to best respond; communication needed. I'd say as soon as you think your identity may be beginning, to a new, and alarming extent, becoming critically infringed on, or overwritten; You may be interested in pulling out of that situation before a few things take place:
A) you fudge the potential for being able to come back to this person (enough of a maybe to mention, yeah?) [probably your #1 concern if you're in this position
]
B) you really dangerously lose track of who you are and who you wanted to be, as well as who you are, or should be becoming.
Confidence was a better idea for either to have gone for in the other.
Food for thought; had to spew it since.. it was all there. Hope you got something. I allow a bit of vaguery as I have come to expect that just about everybody here is pretty into understanding ourselves and others, and off of that; a general level of trust that thinks this shouldn't sound like a foreign language o:
In my experience, being able to appreciate, or even to be intoxicated by a certain arrogant charm can lead to some of the, if not the most, magnetic (and I think fair to say partially sexual) encounters or relationships I've had. Sometimes I have been the charmer, and sometimes another has been mine.
As fun as (from the get go) it may be, or may go; it does seem that the infatuated party is often severely lacking in a lot of definitions for their life, values, perspectives. This is really effing dangerous. From experience. In two of my relationships where I was the "charmer", these girls ended up becoming too invested in my own definition, and fast; making them theirs, and oft if not always prioritizing you way over themselves and this can (and seems rather designed to, considering the environment of the two people in each others lives now) lead to This has, in these few experiences, resolved itself exclusively in those partners becoming too uncomfortable (Healthy reaction!) with how much of that.. me-colored psychopaint is spreading itself all throughout the fundamentals of their identity.
In conclusion - If you are some sort of charming person as I already mentioned; be careful for people looking to latch onto your identity. You may have.. almost an aura of "empowered person" that the other is very sensitive to and magnetized by.
If you are the infatuated - The sooner (should be from the get go!) you are aware of these dangerous elements in that attraction, the safer things will go for everybody (My opinion/estimate.) If you know that you're in a pretty unusually cultivated predisposition to being strongly attracted to people who radiate certain sensations of self-certainty and confidence, you may have (if you intend to keep the relationship together long-term rather than focusing on keeping it together at the moment?) an interest in pacing things. And maybe in a manner that would feel a bit unorthodox for that person to try and just intuitively piece together and know how to best respond; communication needed. I'd say as soon as you think your identity may be beginning, to a new, and alarming extent, becoming critically infringed on, or overwritten; You may be interested in pulling out of that situation before a few things take place:
A) you fudge the potential for being able to come back to this person (enough of a maybe to mention, yeah?) [probably your #1 concern if you're in this position
]B) you really dangerously lose track of who you are and who you wanted to be, as well as who you are, or should be becoming.
Confidence was a better idea for either to have gone for in the other.
Food for thought; had to spew it since.. it was all there. Hope you got something. I allow a bit of vaguery as I have come to expect that just about everybody here is pretty into understanding ourselves and others, and off of that; a general level of trust that thinks this shouldn't sound like a foreign language o:
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EyeSeeCold
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StarsPer
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Ah! I forgot to mention; the sexiest (in a not necessarily sexual interest) attraction I can get out of these situations is when the person is so confident and self-aware, and indulges in a certain social ..candor? mood? moment? This being our "arrogance" or related charismatic styles.
When they indulge in this mix, it can create a person who doesn't mind showing a high self-confidence, even and arrogance. And it may so happen that they are also as much the self as they are the self-opinion. Founded arrogance is one of the most attractive things to me; it's a behavior that I myself exercise at times.
If the person is magnetizing with you in this kind of setup of persons: it may be from their own developed self-confidence which has managed well enough the acrobatics of egotism and can actually get on board with the idea of another highly intelligent, or even person-challenging sort of partner. Orrr, it may be from their type b(oom?) self-identity interests. This is somebody who may likely have a lot of missing ingredients in their identity's status quo. I do not yet know how to successfully navigate this circumstance in any kind of way in which we end up together. In both of my cases with this, both parties I had been with left me, and were trying hard to explain that they just can't control themselves about this attachment and respect for what you think and feel so highly merged or dominating of their own.
They need independent identity, but you need (or have confused the definition with that of want's) each other. Idendity beats love, as that person realizes, or already had and finally commits to solving their of-a-whole-new-level-of-priority for constructing identity and, through that; any halfway true-to-its-definition "equilibrium". As intensely as we may value, be open to.. and be magnetically predisposed to.. if somebody doesn't really exist still.
This has been an involuntary brick wall that came from a place not dictated only by the laws of love but of a simple understanding that both individual persons need to actually exist to build the 1+1 requirement for their potential relationship.
(Note - we may want to say confidence instead of "Founded arrogance".. and I thought about this in a frantic way for half a minute and am sure that this is the best phrase I can use to convey the message!)
When they indulge in this mix, it can create a person who doesn't mind showing a high self-confidence, even and arrogance. And it may so happen that they are also as much the self as they are the self-opinion. Founded arrogance is one of the most attractive things to me; it's a behavior that I myself exercise at times.
If the person is magnetizing with you in this kind of setup of persons: it may be from their own developed self-confidence which has managed well enough the acrobatics of egotism and can actually get on board with the idea of another highly intelligent, or even person-challenging sort of partner. Orrr, it may be from their type b(oom?) self-identity interests. This is somebody who may likely have a lot of missing ingredients in their identity's status quo. I do not yet know how to successfully navigate this circumstance in any kind of way in which we end up together. In both of my cases with this, both parties I had been with left me, and were trying hard to explain that they just can't control themselves about this attachment and respect for what you think and feel so highly merged or dominating of their own.
They need independent identity, but you need (or have confused the definition with that of want's) each other. Idendity beats love, as that person realizes, or already had and finally commits to solving their of-a-whole-new-level-of-priority for constructing identity and, through that; any halfway true-to-its-definition "equilibrium". As intensely as we may value, be open to.. and be magnetically predisposed to.. if somebody doesn't really exist still.
This has been an involuntary brick wall that came from a place not dictated only by the laws of love but of a simple understanding that both individual persons need to actually exist to build the 1+1 requirement for their potential relationship.
(Note - we may want to say confidence instead of "Founded arrogance".. and I thought about this in a frantic way for half a minute and am sure that this is the best phrase I can use to convey the message!)
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Gaze
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This is a legitimate issue for many introverts whether or not you're autonomous. On some level, being in a relationship requires some vulnerability and some personality types see it as a challenge to get someone to open up, and then move on, not realizing the significance. I think it's a matter of emotional responsibility. Although we are responsible for our emotions, it is emotionally irresponsible to charm or beguile someone to open up and then simply disconnect or leave afterwards once they've earned that person's trust just because they they've achieved a goal, and now no longer see them as an interesting mystery to solve. There are emotional and psych consequences of this kind of manipulative emotional behavior. It will likely make someone build a wall around themselves, which prevents anyone from getting to know them, and less likely to open up to potential SOs in the future.
Canis lupus
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sometimes i am, but if the guy treats everybody like shit then no; thats a huge turn off. but i've meet some guys who are just hiding behid their arrogance, for what reason i don't know because i'd like them alot more when they are themselves
Trifoilum
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Not for me, though. In platonic relationships maybe, but romantically it makes them more out of touch. :| As a fellow out of touch people, I find it rather funny.
Adding, I think it would be wonderful if that someone is well aware of his (for me anyway) shortcomings as well as his features, and isn't shy to admit it (but not in a wangsty, 'poor me poor me love meee' kind of way)
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Arrogance? For the most part no. If the arrogence is being expressed by someone that I personally know, and there is no malicious intent behind it, it could be a strong turn on. Outside of that though I usually end up thinking to myself that this person needs to get off their high horse. If it's truly unjustifed I hope they fall off.
Oranguh
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Hmmmmmm I don't know if I'm attracted to "arrogance" but... I am attracted to people who have a way of reasoning or seeing the world which is very... "off?" and might come over as arrogance to other people. The more reaffirmed they are in their version of reality the more interesting it becomes! I can see myself getting close to them, trying to disrupt their mentality by creating scenarios that makes creates internal conflict within them..... but but but! It's all for progress! They become more insightful about themselves in the end... And they usually don't suspect ulterior motives from me because I act so naively... and well there aren't any malicious motives to begin with... I think...
BUT..... I think I do the same for introverted peoples..... Or at least I can very well see myself doing this. But you must forgive me!
Yes... the extroverted personality should have been more insightful and aware of the damage he/she may have been causing. But to the extrovert you can imagine that being "open" is almost second nature. You can imagine that they will need some kind of "reminder" from others that trust and "opening up" can mean A LOT to certain individuals and that such reckless action can do more harm than what they think is good.
But this experience can also open up new avenues for growth for the introvert. The introvert can "relativise" his/her behaviour for further growth, yes... there are people who take is negatively and become even more closed, Which is sad... but there is great potential for growth here!
In the scenario described by Seraphim this becomes very apparent. (btw what you did was so good! Spreading understanding and making people truly closer to eachother! You were the angel that planted the seeds of growth +1
)
Growth is something that is sometimes very difficult and endearing. But the best way to foster growth is by having a proactive attitude and to always be on the lookout for positive possibilities!
:angel:
:grouphug:
BUT..... I think I do the same for introverted peoples..... Or at least I can very well see myself doing this. But you must forgive me!
Although this may quite well be true.... that this isn't a good thing to do...... Because well naturally there are very strong emotions at play here!... But it isn't really fair for either party by making such a claim.
Yes... the extroverted personality should have been more insightful and aware of the damage he/she may have been causing. But to the extrovert you can imagine that being "open" is almost second nature. You can imagine that they will need some kind of "reminder" from others that trust and "opening up" can mean A LOT to certain individuals and that such reckless action can do more harm than what they think is good.
But this experience can also open up new avenues for growth for the introvert. The introvert can "relativise" his/her behaviour for further growth, yes... there are people who take is negatively and become even more closed, Which is sad... but there is great potential for growth here!
In the scenario described by Seraphim this becomes very apparent. (btw what you did was so good! Spreading understanding and making people truly closer to eachother! You were the angel that planted the seeds of growth +1
) Growth is something that is sometimes very difficult and endearing. But the best way to foster growth is by having a proactive attitude and to always be on the lookout for positive possibilities!
:angel:
:grouphug:
soulseeker
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yuck. NO!
yes like what invisible said.... we would be like a proton and another proton colliding... EXTREME REPULSION
yes like what invisible said.... we would be like a proton and another proton colliding... EXTREME REPULSION
Yes. And, btw, I think this is essentially the core attribute of what is commonly referred to as charisma. If you've ever read about Jim Jones, you've read about one of the best personifications of what you wrote about here.
The rest of your post was spot-on as well.
StarsPer
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I wanted to add something about how we receive arrogance. Maybe a big something.
We're pretty full-swing with finding some degree of modesty to be a virtue, definitely. When was the last time you heard this belief be critically considered? It definitely gets taken to levels that I would call extremes; where we hide who we are, the greatness about it, what we even think about our own selves. We're supposed to act like we aren't maybe special, or lovable people.
Why? We do we make social forbeyance, even taboo of revealing ourselves and our own relationship with ourselves? Doesn't the conditioning of a world like this immediately scream out as pretty awful? It does for me \:
We end up with people afraid to love themselves to certain degrees, for fear of even being the person who has the high, loving and appreciative opinion for themself; thus preventing them from ever being in a position of being able to express that in any way, directly or indirectly. This can also be a foundation for the fragility of peoples self-confidence and security, which we see thrashed apart per relationship way too often.
I think that Oranguh is right on the validation, and want to further that; I think that this setup of forgoing further investment and regard for the self can very likely predispose us to finding that validation in our lovers. A lot of people may feel a certain "yeah, so?" response to that reality; I want to respond to that sentiment by telling it that this really isn't condusive to a healthy relationship. I won't say that it's a dealbreaker that nobody ever has or will get through; hardly. I just want to point out that the relationship has that much more stress on it when peoples self-esteem is riding on it. And what happens when that relationship fails? Typically, the person(s) with low self-esteem go back to not feeling as lovable, and wait for another case of love to come through and light them up again.
I missed the part where any adaptation took place here. Are we settling for subjecting the ambition and model of love to hoping that we land on the right someone, rather than doing what we can to improve ourselves as an individual, and through that, as a partner in a relationship?
I did this for a long time. Odd thing is that I have never been too lacking in the self-appreciation or confidence area. But I did have a very strong dodependent nature that, in ways, overrode this often and left me harrowingly empty without the other person there giving me their love anymore.
Anyway, back to the negative conditioning of this modesty business. This specific restraint from investment and comfort in the self may also lend itself to... a less developed awareness of self, and-so refinement of the self. Which, of course, loops back to stagnation and starts to now affirm, to a degree, that this person isn't all that special. Danger!!!
We also have the rest of the world and their reception to whatever individuals break some of the rules of modesty. I think that we all are very sensitive to the presence and context of other egos. And when we come across this, in the guise, or form, of "arrogance"... I think we're inclined to be put off by the idea because it is immediately as if they are speaking blasphemy; anything to do with the idea that they may be better than anyone else. And I am sure that some are. But this is really sloppy! Just because somebody didn't feel like refusing to admit to the world in any way that they thought they were a pretty great person.. this does not mean that they have no modesty, or that they think that, at the end of whatever unfathomable tally, they are better than somebody else.
I know that in my case, a large fuel for my being open about what I think of myself comes from a strong valuing of honesty which does not like the idea of being interfered with for the sake of a social norm that has been around since before we were ever critically analyzing it.
What's more; we think it's completely acceptable to flatter others! And it's good! Being appreciative of what is is great for us. And it just looks silly to me to be so interested in and appreciative (vocally so) of others and to refuse that of ourselves; yet love the hell out of it when someone who isn't us, thinks a lot of us.
I just think that it's really mean to ourselves and to our others that we have gotten in our heads as something we all agree on and don't often think twice about; shouldn't we be celebrating ours and others virtues, or simply their happiness? The whole icky repulsive thing (that I have triggered a lotttt in women) has always felt like this ugly divide put between us by their egotism, or even objective ideas about how I am supposed to see myself, or speak about myself.
What's more in perspective with this; the more repulsive, unfounded style of arrogance that I myself am likely to be uninterested in... it is probably often just that person's social skillset for some of the same jobs you have to do. Maybe the way you handle things isn't the most viable for them, and maybe you have some 'shortcomings' of your own which you rely on to patch certain holes in your functionality. It's easy to get put off by a stereotypical a-hat who thinks he is gods gift to women, but only because it is so easy to forget to really be understanding and consider whether they really are much different from you, and whether this particular thing is really such an illegal move.
I have actually charmed (to varying degrees; a few minutes, an hour, a long-term relationship) a decent amount of people in my time with decidedly stereotypically 'annoying' arrogance. Most are repulsed right away, irrepairably, but for those who aren't; It's funny at first, to challenge them with the idea that you are special and to see how they respond to that (I learn a lot from people by their reception to the insertion of any ego into things.) Sometimes it goes pretty damn well and people are open to liking what you like about you. You just need to be something short of a narcissist and not make a talkshow out of your greatness, and to be reciprocal in your appreciations with each other. Sometimes opportunities are made when somebody starts the ball rolling on being open about appreciating certain things.
We're pretty full-swing with finding some degree of modesty to be a virtue, definitely. When was the last time you heard this belief be critically considered? It definitely gets taken to levels that I would call extremes; where we hide who we are, the greatness about it, what we even think about our own selves. We're supposed to act like we aren't maybe special, or lovable people.
Why? We do we make social forbeyance, even taboo of revealing ourselves and our own relationship with ourselves? Doesn't the conditioning of a world like this immediately scream out as pretty awful? It does for me \:
We end up with people afraid to love themselves to certain degrees, for fear of even being the person who has the high, loving and appreciative opinion for themself; thus preventing them from ever being in a position of being able to express that in any way, directly or indirectly. This can also be a foundation for the fragility of peoples self-confidence and security, which we see thrashed apart per relationship way too often.
I think that Oranguh is right on the validation, and want to further that; I think that this setup of forgoing further investment and regard for the self can very likely predispose us to finding that validation in our lovers. A lot of people may feel a certain "yeah, so?" response to that reality; I want to respond to that sentiment by telling it that this really isn't condusive to a healthy relationship. I won't say that it's a dealbreaker that nobody ever has or will get through; hardly. I just want to point out that the relationship has that much more stress on it when peoples self-esteem is riding on it. And what happens when that relationship fails? Typically, the person(s) with low self-esteem go back to not feeling as lovable, and wait for another case of love to come through and light them up again.
I missed the part where any adaptation took place here. Are we settling for subjecting the ambition and model of love to hoping that we land on the right someone, rather than doing what we can to improve ourselves as an individual, and through that, as a partner in a relationship?
I did this for a long time. Odd thing is that I have never been too lacking in the self-appreciation or confidence area. But I did have a very strong dodependent nature that, in ways, overrode this often and left me harrowingly empty without the other person there giving me their love anymore.
Anyway, back to the negative conditioning of this modesty business. This specific restraint from investment and comfort in the self may also lend itself to... a less developed awareness of self, and-so refinement of the self. Which, of course, loops back to stagnation and starts to now affirm, to a degree, that this person isn't all that special. Danger!!!
We also have the rest of the world and their reception to whatever individuals break some of the rules of modesty. I think that we all are very sensitive to the presence and context of other egos. And when we come across this, in the guise, or form, of "arrogance"... I think we're inclined to be put off by the idea because it is immediately as if they are speaking blasphemy; anything to do with the idea that they may be better than anyone else. And I am sure that some are. But this is really sloppy! Just because somebody didn't feel like refusing to admit to the world in any way that they thought they were a pretty great person.. this does not mean that they have no modesty, or that they think that, at the end of whatever unfathomable tally, they are better than somebody else.
I know that in my case, a large fuel for my being open about what I think of myself comes from a strong valuing of honesty which does not like the idea of being interfered with for the sake of a social norm that has been around since before we were ever critically analyzing it.
What's more; we think it's completely acceptable to flatter others! And it's good! Being appreciative of what is is great for us. And it just looks silly to me to be so interested in and appreciative (vocally so) of others and to refuse that of ourselves; yet love the hell out of it when someone who isn't us, thinks a lot of us.
I just think that it's really mean to ourselves and to our others that we have gotten in our heads as something we all agree on and don't often think twice about; shouldn't we be celebrating ours and others virtues, or simply their happiness? The whole icky repulsive thing (that I have triggered a lotttt in women) has always felt like this ugly divide put between us by their egotism, or even objective ideas about how I am supposed to see myself, or speak about myself.
What's more in perspective with this; the more repulsive, unfounded style of arrogance that I myself am likely to be uninterested in... it is probably often just that person's social skillset for some of the same jobs you have to do. Maybe the way you handle things isn't the most viable for them, and maybe you have some 'shortcomings' of your own which you rely on to patch certain holes in your functionality. It's easy to get put off by a stereotypical a-hat who thinks he is gods gift to women, but only because it is so easy to forget to really be understanding and consider whether they really are much different from you, and whether this particular thing is really such an illegal move.
I have actually charmed (to varying degrees; a few minutes, an hour, a long-term relationship) a decent amount of people in my time with decidedly stereotypically 'annoying' arrogance. Most are repulsed right away, irrepairably, but for those who aren't; It's funny at first, to challenge them with the idea that you are special and to see how they respond to that (I learn a lot from people by their reception to the insertion of any ego into things.) Sometimes it goes pretty damn well and people are open to liking what you like about you. You just need to be something short of a narcissist and not make a talkshow out of your greatness, and to be reciprocal in your appreciations with each other. Sometimes opportunities are made when somebody starts the ball rolling on being open about appreciating certain things.
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Gaze
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Although I would generally agree with you @StarsPer, I would also say that there is another myth floating around which says that we should see ourselves as absolutely wonderful and fantastic in order to feel good about ourselves. And that's a problem. Everyday, I see people with an inflated sense of self which seems wholly unnecessary. The belief is that if i don't promote or oversell my value to you then you won't notice or see it, which i don't believe is necessarily true. Most of the people who i notice or appreciate are not the ones who display their self esteem for everyone to see. It's those who have it but don't need to promote it who i admire. You can have a healthy self esteem and be completely fine with who you are without displaying it in an obvious manner or stating it and without thinking of oneself as being completely fantastic.
Nixie
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I have found that I prefer men who are assertive, even bold. Arrogant as a word has a negative connotation but sometimes people are so good at what they do, a bit of arrogance is understandable. Confidence is very attractive. I would guess that the line between seeing someone as confident and someone as arrogant resides in the eye of the beholder more than the individual in question.