Are you attracted to Ni's supposed mind reading ability?

Dopamine said:
I’ve been at science conferences or talks where the room is predominantly INTPs and INTJs. Toss in an ENTJ or two and the room does indeed become real hairy really quickly.
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You could toss an ENTJ in a room with itself, and the room would still become really hairy quickly. I can't imagine one bossing itself around for hours on end, getting pissed that it's being told what to do...
 
noisebloom said:
You could toss an ENTJ in a room with itself, and the room would still become really hairy quickly. I can't imagine one bossing itself around for hours on end, getting pissed that it's being told what to do...
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Bah hahahahaha ha! Spot on. I am sure there are many lovely ENTJs but I don’t know them. Although they keep trying to date me. Blech No.
 
Dopamine said:
Bah hahahahaha ha! Spot on. I am sure there are many lovely ENTJs but I don’t know them. Although they keep trying to date me. Blech No.
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There's a lovely one on this forum!

I think ENTJs are as likely to be unhealthy as any other type, but this potential lack of development is more overtly obvious than say, an INFJ... except for when an INFJ
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Deleted member 16771 said:
Sounds like the fifth circle of Hell.
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It IS. Unless you don’t give a fuck because you know the whole point of the conversation is to share ideas and you know damn well NO ONE knows the answer. Then I just sit to the side, snack on free food and watch a bunch of high minded professionals lose their shit.
 
noisebloom said:
However, the many experiences I've had in my life with INTJs and INTPs have demonstrated that Ti/Te is also prone to error... because they're human. Te types can easily be blinded by "reliable" data which may be within a different context than they purport, and Ti types can tend to assume their logic is universal, when it in fact is often subjective (e.g. get a few INTPs in a room, make them discuss a few controversial topics, watch the arguments fly).
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Well, I don't know. Maybe that's only when people are possessed by ideology so it becomes more than just arguments. You get emotionally attached to certain beliefs. Politics, sports and other topics like that are traps. Basically everything that creates tribalism.

I would still hope and expect healthy types to be able to discuss a topic calmly and objectively from all angles, especially if it's in more technical subject.

I think that people who deliver their arguments in a very aggressive and dismissive way are usually emotionally immature and would need to work on that (someone like Sheldon Cooper). Not to say that being forceful is bad, but the minimum I expect from people is to listen to others and consider their arguments as objectively as possible.

Sometimes I prefer the approach of ENFJs. They can be quite insecure about their own opinion/conclusions, so they ask questions and let other speak. The thing I hate the most is some aggressive and immature INTx confidently asserting their narrow opinions.
 
philostam said:
Well, I don't know. Maybe that's only when people are possessed by ideology so it becomes more than just arguments. You get emotionally attached to certain beliefs. Politics, sports and other topics like that are traps. Basically everything that creates tribalism.

I would still hope and expect healthy types to be able to discuss a topic calmly and objectively from all angles, especially if it's in more technical subject.

I think that people who deliver their arguments in a very aggressive and dismissive way are usually emotionally immature and would need to work on that (someone like Sheldon Cooper). Not to say that being forceful is bad, but the minimum I expect from people is to listen to others and consider their arguments as objectively as possible.

Sometimes I prefer the approach of ENFJs. They can be quite insecure about their own opinion/conclusions, so they ask questions and let other speak. The thing I hate the most is some aggressive and immature INTx confidently asserting their narrow opinions.
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I find hard core hard science academics have such little time for social development.....but actually that is a stereotype. Because we will leave the room of contention and go have a beer together. That is one difference. We can go for each other’s throat in a science argument, be red faced and really hot- and as long as no one really lost it and called someone else’s ideas and conclusions stupid in anyway- snap right out of it and happily walk off. It’s science, not personal. We actually have to train grad students in intellectual science battle. You gotta be able to take a beating for your data. It’s actually a brutal world. When I get an F type grad student I immediately get to work to help them build armor. I have an INFJ student right now, I’ve been worried about him in this regard. But he’s getting stronger and I am teaching him how to frame his language to be stronger and less hesitant and apologetic I cannot send that kid into the world without a solid bag of tricks. He is really sensitive and we won’t be there to jump in and back him up. It might seem superfluous, but debating and having to defend conclusions is important. And besides- Anger gets shit done.
 
Dopamine said:
I find hard core hard science academics have such little time for social development.....but actually that is a stereotype. Because we will leave the room of contention and go have a beer together. That is one difference. We can go for each other’s throat in a science argument, be red faced and really hot- and as long as no one really lost it and called someone else’s ideas and conclusions stupid in anyway- snap right out of it and happily walk off. It’s science, not personal. We actually have to train grad students in intellectual science battle. You gotta be able to take a beating for your data. It’s actually a brutal world. When I get an F type grad student I immediately get to work to help them build armor. I have an INFJ student right now, I’ve been worried about him in this regard. But he’s getting stronger and I am teaching him how to frame his language to be stronger and less hesitant and apologetic I cannot send that kid into the world without a solid bag of tricks. He is really sensitive and we won’t be there to jump in and back him up. It might seem superfluous, but debating and having to defend conclusions is important. And besides- Anger gets shit done.
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Yeah, that's probably fair.

I'm a T type and I can say I don't have this side of me developed. I can stand for myself, but I don't really get angry or red faced, and I get tired of intellectual battles.

But I don't have any intention of going into academica. Still, I might need to learn to build my armor. So far my approach kinda worked.
 
Ah, welp- I’m a goddamn annoying scientist who does a lot of training to turn normal sweet kids into academic assholes- so- happy to help if you are in need someday. I build warriors hahaha *wink*
 
philostam said:
Well, I don't know. Maybe that's only when people are possessed by ideology so it becomes more than just arguments. You get emotionally attached to certain beliefs. Politics, sports and other topics like that are traps. Basically everything that creates tribalism.

I would still hope and expect healthy types to be able to discuss a topic calmly and objectively from all angles, especially if it's in more technical subject.

I think that people who deliver their arguments in a very aggressive and dismissive way are usually emotionally immature and would need to work on that (someone like Sheldon Cooper). Not to say that being forceful is bad, but the minimum I expect from people is to listen to others and consider their arguments as objectively as possible.
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INTPs can be very possessed by ideology; it just so happens that this ideology may be self-discovered, rather than a popular one. Ti builds a logical framework, i.e. "X makes sense and Y makes sense, so therefore Z", and Fe is really the counter-balance to be more accepting of others' opinions, but the acceptance is potentially more of a surface-level gesture than an actual acknowledgement of truth. Over time, each INTP has their own set of logical rules which define how they approach and judge the world, and while it's been hard for me to admit most of my life that these rules could possibly be different for any two "logical" individuals, I've found that it usually is.

I'm not saying that strong Ti/Te types are more or as error-prone as other types (I don't have the data to back this up), but they do make errors, and this can't be discounted when dealing with them.
 
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