Arrest Based on Race?

[Azure_Knight]

To answer the op, I think that the issue has been blown out of proportion. To use a hypothetical situation:

If a neighbor called the police because they saw me breaking into my own house, I would fully cooperate if a police officer arrived and wished to arrest me. Although issues surrounding property and ownership do come up, I would place priority on compliance with what the officer wanted (and would have tried to establish my identity during that time). When an officer arrives at the scene, they are in charge. No matter what, you should always treat law enforcement with respect and follow their lead. Otherwise, you run an increased risk of getting arrested.

Two of the things that have blown this issue out of proportion are: the idea of a racially motivated arrest, and President Obama's comments on the arrest. It still amazes me to see how emotional and negative arguments can get when race is brought into discussion: I think humanity has a long ways to go in this regard. I also think that the President should not have made those comments: they were fodder for the media to spin (and sure enough, they became a point of both contention and controversy!)

I sincerely hope that intelligent and thoughtful discussion can happen on issues surrounding race. There certainly is a great deal to discuss, and many perspectives to be considered.

 

[Black Swan]

I think humanity has a long ways to go in this regard. I sincerely hope that intelligent and thoughtful discussion can happen on issues surrounding race. There certainly is a great deal to discuss, and many perspectives to be considered.

This may be totally naive, but I hope and really feel that we'll see big differences when the baby boomers start to die off. I know that's not the most positive alternative, but I live in an area where I see racist reactions and comments occurring at least every few weeks. I've only heard maybe 2 or 3 people around my age make racial remarks, but I hear it ALL the time from older people. Even senior members of my own family, unfortunately. I think growing up it made me more aware and compassionate towards minorities and some of the injustices they had to live through. I like to think that there are a lot of people around my age that feel that way. People that didn't let the prejudices of their parents/grandparents pass on to them, I feel those people are the rule and not the exception.

It makes me wonder what kind of affect it would have if everyone born prior to 1970 disappeared in America. Anyway, I agree with Satya, I think both sides probably could've found a better way to react.

 

[Satya]

I'm sure it'll take time for our society to sort of grow past past oppression so it won't look like it does now, but the fact is, the next person to rob my store at gunpoint is PROBABLY going to be a black male, and that is not racist.

Sociologically ignorant, not racist.

If you want to talk about probabilities then I'm your man.

African Americans are arrested at higher numbers than whites. Does that mean African Americans commit more crimes? No. As a 2001 nation wide study demonstrated, Blacks and Hispanics are twice as likely to be searched as whites. The more searches, the more arrests. Differential justice has also been proven. From studying court records, it has been shown that whites are dealt with more leniently in the justice system. Whether it is at the investigation stage, the time of arrest, the indictment, the sentencing, or the parole/probation, whites are statically better off than African Americans. Probability wise, that means a black man has a far higher probability of ending up in prison and being denied parole than a white man arrested for the same crime. Next, racial disparities are most evident in relation to type of crime. While you mention robbery, it is actually substance abuse which has the greatest racial disparity. While all other crime rates have decreased, drug crime arrests have gone up. Which relates back to the previous statistic. What do you think cops are searching for when they are disproportionately searching minorities due to profiling? Compound the effects of racially caused increased imprisonment on minority communities and families and what do you have?

US imprisonment rates are much higher than the rest of the world, and within the US, African Americans are imprisoned at least eight times as often as European Americans, while American Indians and Hispanics are imprisoned at two to three times the European American rate. (Asian American incarceration rates are generally lower than European American rates.) About a third of African American men are under the supervision of the criminal justice system, and about 12% of African American men in their 20s and 30s are incarcerated. These astronomical incarceration rates have huge social and economic consequences for black women, black children, and black communities. They are not a legacy of Jim Crow, but are a result of policies implemented since the mid-1970s which created exponential growth in incarceration between 1975 and 2000. This growth was not due to growing crime rates, but to greater use of incarceration for lesser offenses and drug offenses. High incarceration rates ruin people's lives and make the problem worse, by making it harder for young people who have done wrong to be rehabilitated, find jobs, and become productive members of society. Children whose parents are sent to prison are especially harmed by these policies.

Your intention may have been kind, but it seems you lack an understanding of the numbers.

African Americans don't commit more crime. They are simply searched more due to racial profiling, and treated differently in the justice system due to the same kind of perceptions you have.

 

[arbygil]

^^THIS. Thank you, Satya, for the data and analysis.

And this brings up the reason why Gates might have acted the way he did, and why any Hispanic or American Indian might also have blow his or her top. First, it's insulting to be arrested/searched in your own home regardless of how you act. The first assumption you have if you're an "oppressed" group is indignation and anger is that, "it's happening again."

If you're seven times more likely to be searched or assumed to do a crime, you're more likely to go off on the situation and assume it's race related. And despite the evidence to the contrary, you're probably right to assume so.

The latest info is out: The Portuguese woman made the call because another older woman told her she thought Gates was breaking into the home. The Portuguese woman watched and initially said they had luggage and that they might be trying to get into his own home.

Good ops-ed piece here: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_...8_911_tapes_in_gates_case_are_colorblind.html

In any case, it shouldn't have happened. That it *did* happen only reinforces the idea that if you're Black or Hispanic you're going to be in trouble with the law, eventually...regardless of your education or status.

Side note: My best friend was pulled over for DWH the other day. No way to prove it except for the ugliness of how the cop treated her and the implications he made on her legal status. She doesn't even speak Spanish, and she's a third generation American. But that didn't matter.

Anyway. I'm done with this. If you've experienced something similar, you understand. If not, you'll have all kinds of reasons why things were blown out of proportion and mishandled and Gates should have complied, yada, yada, yada. I don't like bringing up topics like this because folks don't get it; and they don't get it, because it's never personally happened to them. When it *does* (usually when people travel and they're ill-treated by a culture who sees themselves superior and the visitor as inferior) then understanding can hit 'em like a two-ton brick.

But meh. Same ol' same ol'.

 

[bamf]

I think the issues this story raises are good ones and should/need to be discussed but I think the media has blown it way out of proportion. Instead of covering these two individuals (who I think, regardless of what happened, should be left alone by the media now) and this specific story, it could be a lot more informative to report on the issues it brings up, the statistics Satya posted, etc etc

 

[sedna]

Indigo when you seek to invalidate another's experience by using your bias to say they are somehow using 'race as a card to get out of situations,' you don't want to have a conversation, you simply want to unload your bullshit because someone of your race (WHITE) got caught using his authority to be a racist. Another person of that same race (WHITE), who was in a NEIGHBOR's house, decided that an old black man living across the street was a burglar. It's clear, she saw black skin and jumped to conclusions (as white people OFTEN do in similar situations.)

As much as you try to deflect -

the cop was doing his job (um...have you been arrested in your OWN HOME for asking a stranger for his identification? If so raise a hand.)

Oh the woman was 'portuguese' (um...WHITE. This is a pointless delineation to deflect from the fact she was WHITE)

Gates was out of order (um...how would you act if you've been dehumanized in your own home, after a long flight from China AND your door was jammed???)

Hmm...I would think, if your neighbor's door is jammed....the neighborly thing to do would be to come out of your house and actually help your neighbor get inside his house. But if you're black, you hide behind the curtains of your house and call the police. I guess an old black man with a walking stick is regarded as 'dangerous.' LOL.

It's funny, if we completely took race out of the equation and simply looked at this based on MBTI, most of the INFJs here would rip into this cop's STJ behavior for being obnoxious, using force to abuse other people's rights, being a hypocrite claiming he teaches racial profiling classes, yet in his report he listed the 'suspects' as 'two black males with backpacks', when the woman never identified them as black. INFJs are supposedly empathetic to other people...we see deeply into the connections between people, yet it seems when you identify people as BLACK or AFRICAN-AMERICAN, all that goes out the window...

And yet still, even as the mounting evidence against the racist piece of shit...I mean cop...Jim Crow (how IRONIC) is brought to light, still, you all seem to want to equalize this situation, implying that Gates was somehow out of line for questioning, LOUDLY who this Crowley person was. He had every right. He was on his own property. He was harassed by the police. After he showed him his identification and proved his residence.

Somehow I knew I would find a fitting Chappelle clip -

[YOUTUBE]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RkQKOBiHyNU&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RkQKOBiHyNU&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

 

[bamf]

Sedna, while I understand your points, you argue that Indigo is avoiding conversation, the manner in which you reply to him is void of any conversation. You're turning it into a yelling match, which is fine I don't care, but it will do nothing but destroy any possibility for conversation. It muddies the points you're trying to make.

 

[VH]

I think it is a good thing that this story is getting so much press, because it is forcing everyone who watches it to consider the possibility that we are all equal, and we are all held accountable to the same standards.

I've watched this story in great detail, and a lot of the problem was that the man demanded more slack than the police officer was willing to give. When he didn't receive exceptional treatment, he cried racism. Had he behaved differently, there would have been no story. All of the local police officers, regardless of race, agree with the arresting officer's choices.

If the man was arrested based on 'race', it was because of 'racial behavior', not his appearance. The greatest factor in 'racism' isn't race. It's cultural behaviors of groups most easily, and wrongfully, defined as races. The man still asserts that he had a right to his behaviors, and that his behaviors were a function of his race. This is absolutely ridiculous. Race is not a factor in behavior, and I find it insulting that people assume it could be. In America, we must realize that if everyone is created equal, then we are also all held to the same standards of behavior. There can be no exceptions.

This story is forcing people to consider these possibilities, who otherwise would not have. This story is forcing Americans to redefine their views on race, racism, and equality. That's never a bad thing.

 

[Satya]

...you simply want to unload your bullshit because someone of your race (WHITE) got caught using his authority to be a racist.

I see no indication of that in this case. In fact, the policeman in question had over a decade of experience and had been selected specifically to teach other police officers how not to racially profile. This seemed like a case of officers overextending their authority but there is little evidence to support the assumption that it was racially motivated.

Another person of that same race (WHITE), who was in a NEIGHBOR's house, decided that an old black man living across the street was a burglar.

How do you know the person would not have called if they saw someone white trying to force their way into the house? You are making an assumption here.

It's clear, she saw black skin and jumped to conclusions (as white people OFTEN do in similar situations.)

A person trying to force a door open, regardless of skin color, is cause for concern. To ask that a woman confront two strange men who are trying to force their way into a building, regardless of their skin color, is fairly unreasonable. There was nothing observably wrong with calling the authorities in this case.

Oh the woman was 'portuguese' (um...WHITE. This is a pointless delineation to deflect from the fact she was WHITE)

It seems you are making racially intolerant suggestions and overgeneralizations at this point.

 

[Azure_Knight]

I have been in situations where I have been discriminated against: when I was in Germany, it happened because I was an American. Despite what happened, I still respect the German people and their culture. I think our view of the world and our attitudes heavily influence how we interact with others. We can choose to let racism bring us down, or we can strive to rise above it and work towards being the ideals that we wish the world would adopt. If you feel strongly against racism, raise awareness in your area and attend non violent protests against it. Be the change that you want to see.

 

[Hinsoog]

It's funny, if we completely took race out of the equation and simply looked at this based on MBTI, most of the INFJs here would rip into this cop's STJ behavior for being obnoxious, using force to abuse other people's rights, being a hypocrite claiming he teaches racial profiling classes, yet in his report he listed the 'suspects' as 'two black males with backpacks', when the woman never identified them as black. INFJs are supposedly empathetic to other people...we see deeply into the connections between people, yet it seems when you identify people as BLACK or AFRICAN-AMERICAN, all that goes out the window...

So I feel particularly empathic about the situation of police. Think about it, black or white, the people they spend time on day in and day out are that very unfortunate percentage of our society. They get lied to all day by everyone they pull over, and by numbers, their suspicions are probably usually rewareded. Think about it, police get lied to all day by almost everyone, could be something as simple as speeding, "officer, I'm sorry I didn't know blah blah". Everyone hates police and they get looked down upon, even by wealthier white-skinned people like most of my family, because you run into a powerful character that has this sort of attitude like you are one more ill-willed wild human that is going to lie to them and get past them. My father actually believes that police and government are simply there to regulate his business to its death, and he has actually been taken to jail from losing his temper on a police officer giving him a speeding ticket. Out of my father's lips can sometimes be heard, "they all seem like rotten bastards." That is very unfortunate considering the service that they provide.

I have recieved it too. They look at you in a way that makes you feel like you are just a bit more dirt that they may be held responsible to sweep. I say that that's ok, even after an occasion where I felt disrespected. I feel empathic that their job is to ACTUALLY deal with that predictable percentage lying to them and committing crimes, black or white. Can you even imagine being a police officer!?! I bet any police officer with a more sensitive head on his shoulders has a terribly hard time not hating humanity with all of his heart... I have a hard enough time not seeing all people as just filthy animals let alone as a police officer... I have a lot of respect for anyone that can continue that dirty dirty job, especially when they aren't allowed to use the instincts and intuition they have gained from their own experience. Sometimes I imagine that a solution to this sort of ugly illustration that people dwell on is to just have a lot more black police officers, and then it's a less ugly picture that people are less able to freak out about.

 

[VH]

There is no 'race' that is more inclined to commit crimes.

Statistically, poor people and uneducated people are the most likely to commit crimes. Far and away, these are the most dominant factors in crime statistics. Unfortunately, we live in a society where there are a disproportionate number of people who are poor and uneducated that are of particular races. The correlation between race and crime is a clear logical fallacy.

However, there is another factor that hasn't been addressed with respect to crime. MALES are more likely to commit crimes than females by a ridiculous ratio. It seems ironic that the world is more concerned with race than gender. However, the reason it isn't is simple. We judge men and women as individuals. We must always do the same thing with respect to race. We're all individuals, and should be judged solely as individuals. But, this also means that no one can be afforded exceptional treatment, for good or ill.