[PUG] Artificial insemination is immoral

Norwich said:
Do all Catholics abide by what is written in chapter 2? Nope, not even close. Many shamefully promote prejudice. They directly violate 2358 by continually being disrespectful to people who are gay.
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Believe me, I know. Some Catholics would love to see me imprisoned for sodomy.

If the point of this thread was to highlight injustice maybe it was worth it. But just for the record, this ignorant, barren morally reprehensible, failure feels deeply wounded.
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The purpose of this thread was to make fun of teleology as a credible form of reasoning. Unfortunately, the Catholic Church utilizes teleology to justify many of its less than rational positions on how people should live their lives. Don't take it as a personal attack.

Information on tags:

http://forums.infjs.com/showthread.php?t=6008

If you are senstive to heated arguments, then I would stay out of [PUG} threads. They aren't meant to be nice. If anything, [PUG} tags are where people come to vent their frustrations.
 
Anyone that has spent time reading your posts knows what the real reason is for this thread.

"Here stands the mean, uncomely, stone,
Tis very cheap in price!
The more it is despised by fools,
The more loved by the wise." the alchemist Arnaldus de Villanova
 
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The biggest problems I see with artificial insemination are the possibly ambiguities with the donors.
1) How much can you trust the clinic people, who inseminate, only inseminate who they say? (They may inseminate more to improve clinic statistics)
2) Donors can be close relatives -> unintended inbreeding -> possible medical problems
3) Donors may have an unknown illness at the time of donation -> possible medical problems (The inability to find the donor can lead to prolonging treating the problem for the future child)
3) Donors' unknown family medical history -> possible medical problems (Same as above)

If the woman actually knows the donor, these problems may be avoidable. But, if the donor knows the child is "his", he may have an emotional attachment for the child. More problems.

Also, there is no male equivalent for artificial insemination. Imagine having "womb machines" where males submits his sperm. He can choose donated eggs to be his future children. Again, all I see are more problems.


As for that Teleology, personally I think there is a necessary balance between intention and result.
Teleology and Utilitarianism.
 
Norwich said:
Thank you. So the prefix PUG should alert the reader that the OP’s intent is to attack, assault, capture, subdue…..opponents? Okay. But in doing so, shouldn’t the position of the opponent be clearly delineated? In this thread the Catholic Church’s position was not accurately depicted.
Satya, I am enraged that there are narrow minded people that would like to see you imprisoned. I will never join their ranks. However since you did not precisely address the theology in question, yet correctly depicted my circumstance, it seems only reasonable that the attach was meant for me. I appreciate that you say I shouldn’t feel this way, but honestly I am having difficulty with this.
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I wasn't attacking you in any way Norwich. There genuinely are Catholics who would love to see me imprisoned for sodomy. I'm happy to hear that you are not one of them and that you find anyone who would hold such a position to be reprehensible.

I agree that the way I went about the thread was meant to be sarcastic. I apologized in a different thread specifically for this thread.

http://forums.infjs.com/showthread.php?t=9404

Nobody asked me to apologize, and I wasn't apologizing to any particular member, I just felt I had gone too far and had alienated some of the members who held these particular beliefs. While I do not tolerate bigotry of any kind on this forum, my attitude in this thread was less than respectful. As long as someone doesn't demonstrate bigotry on this forum, I feel they should be entitled to express their views openly.
 
Satya said:
I wasn't attacking you in any way Norwich. There genuinely are Catholics who would love to see me imprisoned for sodomy. I'm happy to hear that you are not one of them and that you find anyone who would hold such a position to be reprehensible.

I agree that the way I went about the thread was meant to be sarcastic. I apologized in a different thread specifically for this thread.

http://forums.infjs.com/showthread.php?t=9404

Nobody asked me to apologize, and I wasn't apologizing to any particular member, I just felt I had gone too far and had alienated some of the members who held these particular beliefs. While I do not tolerate bigotry of any kind on this forum, my attitude in this thread was less than respectful. As long as someone doesn't demonstrate bigotry on this forum, I feel they should be entitled to express their views openly.
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How passive aggressive. This savors strongly of bitterness.
I think you're taking some people's opinions very personally.
 
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Satya said:
Believe me, I know. Some Catholics would love to see me imprisoned for sodomy.

The purpose of this thread was to make fun of teleology as a credible form of reasoning. Unfortunately, the Catholic Church utilizes teleology to justify many of its less than rational positions on how people should live their lives. Don't take it as a personal attack.

Information on tags:

http://forums.infjs.com/showthread.php?t=6008

If you are senstive to heated arguments, then I would stay out of [PUG} threads. They aren't meant to be nice. If anything, [PUG} tags are where people come to vent their frustrations.
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Who on the board wants you locked up? i think you are preaching to the choir.
 
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uberrogo said:
Who on the board wants you locked up? i think you are preaching to the choir.
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I have no interest into going into the political position's of members on the forum. They are entitled to believe what they will, but expressing bigotry on this forum will not be tolerated.
 
Satya said:
I wasn't attacking you in any way Norwich. There genuinely are Catholics who would love to see me imprisoned for sodomy. I'm happy to hear that you are not one of them and that you find anyone who would hold such a position to be reprehensible.

I agree that the way I went about the thread was meant to be sarcastic. I apologized in a different thread specifically for this thread.

http://forums.infjs.com/showthread.php?t=9404

Nobody asked me to apologize, and I wasn't apologizing to any particular member, I just felt I had gone too far and had alienated some of the members who held these particular beliefs. While I do not tolerate bigotry of any kind on this forum, my attitude in this thread was less than respectful. As long as someone doesn't demonstrate bigotry on this forum, I feel they should be entitled to express their views openly.
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Perhaps the fact that they are Catholics is incidental/accidental to their views.

It may be true to say that many African-Americans are rapists, a statement that is verifiable when examining prison populations. But to say so is easily (and probably correctly) interpreted as a racist statement.

Similarly to say that many Catholics want gays imprisoned is prejudicial against Catholics. There is no Catholic teaching that promotes the imprisonment of gays - even though there may be the odd Catholic who teaches it as his own opinion.

(Incidentally I don't know any Catholics who would want gays imprisoned).
 
How is it immoral? I literally can see no way what so ever in how this could possibly be immoral. I could see religious arguments being used, but I disregard religious contexts in regards to morality (I disregard it for most everything actually). Therefore, I really don't see how it could even reasonably be considered as such.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
Perhaps the fact that they are Catholics is incidental/accidental to their views.

It may be true to say that many African-Americans are rapists, a statement that is verifiable when examining prison populations. But to say so is easily (and probably correctly) interpreted as a racist statement.

Similarly to say that many Catholics want gays imprisoned is prejudicial against Catholics. There is no Catholic teaching that promotes the imprisonment of gays - even though there may be the odd Catholic who teaches it as his own opinion.

(Incidentally I don't know any Catholics who would want gays imprisoned).
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I think you misread. I don't recall ever saying that "many" Catholics want gays to be imprisoned. I believe I only said that "some" Catholics want gays imprisoned. I hope that changes your opinion regarding whether the statement is prejudiced. I find those individuals who do feel that gays should be imprisoned, regardless of their religious beliefs, to be incredibly reprehensible, bigoted, and devoid of decency. I'm happy to hear that you do not know of any.
 
Satya said:
I think you misread. I don't recall ever saying that "many" Catholics want gays to be imprisoned. I believe I only said that "some" Catholics want gays imprisoned. I hope that changes your opinion regarding whether the statement is prejudiced. I find those individuals who do feel that gays should be imprisoned, regardless of their religious beliefs, to be incredibly reprehensible, bigoted, and devoid of decency. I'm happy to hear that you do not know of any.
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To draw a hypothetical parrallel: to say "Some African-Americans are rapists" isn't seen as prejudicial? Perhaps a highly qualified statement would clearly set out that such a statement was not intended to mis-represent an entire demographic population.


Sometimes such qualification is considerate when naming particular demographic populations - especially ones that are often subject to criticism/critique/attack.
 
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Flavus Aquila said:
To draw a hypothetical parrallel: to say "Some African-Americans are rapists" isn't seen as prejudicial? Perhaps a highly qualified statement would clearly set out that such a statement was not intended to mis-represent an entire demographic population.

Sometimes such qualification is considerate when naming particular demographic populations - especially ones that are often subject to criticism/critique/attack.
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You will have to bring it up with Norwich. I was only responding to him. To quote...

Norwich said:
Do all Catholics abide by what is written in chapter 2? Nope, not even close. Many shamefully promote prejudice. They directly violate 2358 by continually being disrespectful to people who are gay.
Click to expand...

I didn't feel he was being prejudiced towards Catholics by making that statement, but apparently you feel differently. And I carefully stated that only "some" Catholics wish to see gays imprisoned.
 
Satya said:
You will have to bring it up with Norwich. I was only responding to him. To quote...



I didn't feel he was being prejudiced towards Catholics by making that statement, but apparently you feel differently. And I carefully stated that only "some" Catholics wish to see gays imprisoned.
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You always use that word as if some means a vast number.
 
uberrogo said:
You always use that word as if some means a vast number.
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Could you give me some example of where I have used "some" to indicate a vast number? I'm curious as to how I managed to use a word to signify the opposite of what it actually means.
 
Satya said:
Could you give me some example of where I have used "some" to indicate a vast number? I'm curious as to how I managed to use a word to signify the opposite of what it actually means.
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Im not going to research your posts. Simply be introspective and sensitive to how people in certain minorites would perceive the tone and meaning of what you say.
 
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