asperger syndrome

Ah ha! I finally found those files I had been talking about. I knew there was at least one document I had on this condition/personality type but I thought I remembered 2 and fortunately, I did find both. I sincerely apologize because I know that I have been adding links to tests and adding information, but haven't yet personally responded to individual comments and asked further questions. That's only temporary. This phase that I have been in thus far is just gathering as much information as possible to have an informed understanding of the both of you, [MENTION=5437]Paladin-X[/MENTION] and [MENTION=2710]jimtaylor[/MENTION] ... so far I have learned a lot, only adding to what I sensed intuitively.

So - as both of you know by now, I did test on the spectrum between 31-34, which was the same for you Jim and 38 for Paladin. Both of those numbers are within range for what's called "HSP" or Highly Sensitive Person/Personality. Some call it a "disorder" and others consider it simply a personality type, which is why to my knowledge, it is not yet included in the DSM, unless it was recently added. When most people hear "Highly Sensitive Person/Personality," often their minds go straight to being overly emotional, easily hurt, etc. Being a HSP is much deeper than that, and in many cases, they don't even have those traits at all, whereas others may, because HSP falls on a spectrum too. HSP and those considered High Functioning or AS on the spectrum have a ton in common. Speaking for myself, while I do have traits on the spectrum that would cause most to put me in a High Functioning category, I am really 100% a HSP. It is documented that 15-20% of the population are HSPs but from my experience, the number is significantly lower than that. It has been correlated with MBTI and naturally, the most common MBTI type to also be HSP are INFJs. When I came across this documentation years ago, I was really amazed in many ways with its accuracy in so many areas. It has also been found that many people who are on the Autistic spectrum, are also HSPs. On the flip side, there are many who have been diagnosed especially as High Functioning that are actually really just HSPs. So there are a lot of links here for why it is relatable. At least 98% of the documentation online these days is very poor, which is why I wanted to find my documentation before mentioning what it was I had in mind. There is a short & simple test that is available, if you're interested. It's here: http://www.hsperson.com/pages/test.htm

The absolute best document I have is a bit lengthy. I thought perhaps I would post some and see if either of you or both of you were interested in more. I was able to find what seems like the entire e-book online that you could read at your convenience if you would like to know more and think this really fits you. There are tons of great tips. You can read that here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/79852262/hsp

Special But Deeply Misunderstood

HSPs take in a lot - all the subtleties others miss. But what seems ordinary to others, like loud music or crowds, can be highly stimulating and thus stressful for HSPs.
Most people ignore sirens, glaring lights, strange odors, clutter and chaos. HSPs are disturbed by them.
Most people's feet may be tired at the end of a day in a mall or a museum, but they're ready for more when you suggest an evening party. HSPs need solitude after such a day. They feel jangled, over-aroused.
Most people walk into a room and perhaps notice the furniture, the people-that's about it. HSPs can be instantly aware, whether they wish to be or not, of the mood, the friendships and enmities, the freshness or staleness of the air, the personality of the one who arranged the flowers.
If you are an HSP, however, it is hard to grasp that you have some remarkable ability. How do you compare inner experiences? Not easily. Mostly you notice that you seem unable to tolerate as much as other people. You forget that you belong to a group that has often demonstrated great creativity, insight, passion, and caring-all highly valued by society.
We are a package deal, however. Our trait of sensitivity means we will also be cautious, inward, needing extra time alone. Because people without the trait (the majority) do not understand that, they see us as timid, shy, weak, or that greatest sin of all, unsociable. Fearing these labels, we try to be like others. But that leads to our becoming over-aroused and distressed. Then that gets us labeled neurotic or crazy, first by others and then by ourselves.

The Good News and the Not-so-Good

What this difference in arousability means is that you notice levels of stimulation that go unobserved by others. This is true whether we are talking about subtle sounds, sights, or physical sensations like pain. It is not that your hearing, vision, or other senses are more acute (plenty of HSPs wear glasses). The difference seems to lie somewhere on the way to the brain or in the brain, in a more careful processing of information. We reflect more on everything. And we sort things into finer distinctions .. Like those machines that grade fruit by size - we sort into ten sizes while others sort into two or three.
This greater awareness of the subtle tends to make you more intuitive, which simply means picking up and working through information in a semiconscious or unconscious way. The result is that you often "just know" without realizing how. Furthermore, this deeper processing of subtle details causes you to consider the past or future more. You "just know" how things got to be the way they are or how they are going to turn out. This is that "sixth sense" people talk about. It can be wrong, of course, just as your eyes and ears can be wrong, but your intuition is right often enough that HSPs tend to be visionaries, highly intuitive artists, or inventors, as well as more conscientious, cautious, and wise people.

The downside of the trait shows up at more intense levels of stimulation. What is moderately arousing for most people is highly arousing for HSPs. What is highly arousing for most people causes an HSP to become very frazzled indeed, until they reach a shutdown point called "transmarginal inhibition." Transmarginal inhibition was first discussed around the turn of the century by the Russian physiologist Ivan Pavlov, who was convinced that the most basic inherited difference among people was how soon they reach this shutdown point and that the quick-to-shut-down have a fundamentally different type of nervous system.
No one likes being over-aroused, HSP or not. A person feels out of control, and the whole body warns that it is in trouble. Over-arousal often means failing to perform at one's best. Of course, it can also mean danger. An extra dread of over-arousal may even be built into all of us.

I won't add anything else for now just to prevent this getting extremely long. I hope this isn't too much information being tossed out to absorb it all. I am just going by what I sense and what I feel could be very helpful, I hope. I know it was of great help to me when I read the article years ago in either '98 or '99. There is another much shorter article I have that I can post, not found online, if you are interested. Just let me know what you think :smile:
 
i recently found out that i am HSP . it sure cleared up a lot of things for me.
 
jimtaylor said:
[MENTION=5756]Dr. Holly[/MENTION] That is why I took the test multiple times. I always take those test multiple times because of my tendency to over think every question. Like the questions involving, "Do you like to be social?", "Do you have difficult times reading people?", "Are you social?", etc.... For the first one, yes I do like being social. I like talking with people, I like interacting and having friends. I just don't like small talk, I don't like sociallizing without a purpose or what could be described as social banter. I rather get to the point or the meat of the conversation even if it has no purpose. I would rather hear about a persons personal matters or the things they actually care about versus what they did that day. In the moment when I am in a conversation with a person I find it difficult to read them but when I think about it later, I can pick out actions that I can with a high probability say where for one reason or another. It is only in the moment that I cannot. Plus when I hear these questions, the answer is always, it depends. In small groups of people, I can be a social butterfly and am able to sit back, obvserve and process those actions that give me hints on when to act so I am far more relaxed and social. In one on one conversations, I struggle a little more unless it is a professional meeting and during large parties it is a bit overwhelming. There are just too many possibilities or variables to answer a hard "yes" or "no" to most of the questions.

One specific question I had real trouble with was the one about making friends. I make friends very easy but I don't maintain them because most are turned off by the fact that I don't call or text very often to go do things and I am not upset by the fact that a lot don't like this. My good friends are those who are similar and don't need me to send them something everyday for them to know they are important in my life and they know if they ever needed me, I would be their in a heartbeat. I like being notified ahead of time if they want to go do something because I like to plan enough time around it to give us freedom to not be limited by time constraints of my schedule. Like if my friends want to get out on a Friday night, I want to make sure my Saturday morning is free as well because things could possibily get crazy, like a night trip down to Vegas.

So like even in the description of AS, the whole schedule thing makes sense to me but it doesn't. I don't schedule things down to the very last detail and I get bored with doing the same thing over and over again but I do get upset if their is not some type of consistency in my life. I am a broker, so I work in sales (I know crazy) so I know the problems I face each day will vary but I am not upset by that. I enjoy the challenge of the different questions, individuals and problems presented but what I struggle with is the inconsistency of the work of my co-workers. I have a hard time with office politics so I just do my job and sell. Every day something different could go wrong and I would never get upset, I would just think through it and figure out a way to overcome it. For me what I want consistent is the fact that I know from 8am - 5pm, Monday through Friday, my days are going to be insane. They will be full of issues and various complications with unpredictable events and that is fine as long as it does not spill over into my none working life.

Now lets just say a family member or friend comes into town without warning and wants me to do something with them one day and take a day off work. That will upset me because it will upset the general schedule I have. If they had notified me in advance that they where coming, I could have planned ahead, set aside sometime, got ahead on some actions at work so that nothing was upset. For example, I have had the last 5 days off for vacation. I have done a different, random thing each day and had no type of schedule to my vacation. I set aside five days to be competely random and to just go with what sounded fun that day and it was awesome. I was able to be care free and relax because I set things up so I could be that way. I had friends call me and ask me if wanted to go to a party and drink, the idea of saying no never came to my mind. I had no responsibilites so I could relax and just enjoy. I wasn't uptight and worried that I was letting the ball drop on something. So again the answer to that question is always, it depends on the situation.
Click to expand...

Nail on the head. It is almost exactly the same for me.

[MENTION=5756]Dr. Holly[/MENTION]
Following jimtaylor's good idea, I took the test 2 more times at varying points in the day. I tested 38 originally, then 42, then 39.

NLD is a tough one. I am good at arithmetic and math that doesn't involve graphs. I like solving equations. I thoroughly enjoy the systematic approach to solving a problem. I don't confuse the axis, I just don't like having to draw stuff or pinpoint things. I feel like there is another underlying reason, but I do not consciously know what it is. Like jimtaylor, I'm good at faces and bad at names. Same for paying attention in noisy environments as jimtaylor. I'm really good at maps and remembering routes. I am bad at remembering landmarks. I am both good and bad at spatial awareness. It depends more on my mindset than situation. Most other characteristics depend on mindset as well. I also fall under dyslexia, and several other dys-type learning disabilities. I have a reading rate of about 60 WPM. I understand each word individually, but putting them together slows me down a lot. I can however, read really fast in information seeking. I look for keywords, read the important parts, and infer the rest. I am currently awaiting the results of a Psycho-educational assessment for professional confirmation.

As far as learning disabilities go, I believe my mind is fragmented somehow. Sometimes I learn by listening, sometimes by seeing, sometimes by doing, and almost always with feeling associated (not necessarily emotion). I know things by what feels right by sound, image, or doing. Having to unexpectedly change modalities, greatly confuses me, and thus I might not understand whatever happens shortly after. Also, sometimes I think verbally, sometimes in pictures, and sometimes in feeling. Sometimes all three at once or a combination of two.

Why Asperger's or Autism Spectrum stick out in my mind as a possibility? Part 2 of the DSM's list (although I can relate to all symptoms, these are the ones that stand out as something different from other disorders).

(A) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
(B) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
(C) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g. hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
(D) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects

Although, you could liken A to ADHD's hyperfocus, I think I take hyperfocus to a whole new level sometimes. There are some things that have to be followed incessantly. Although, they are not so 'inflexible' it does cause a great deal of stress to not do things a certain way. When I'm already stressed, I will often become inflexible, though. I used to rock a lot, whether when stressed or 'in the zone'. I don't always realize I'm doing it though. I rarely do it now. I stopped after my ex yelled at me, telling me to stop because I look like a retard. Pacing was another one that I got made fun of or yelled at for by lots of people. I will wring my hands or quickly open/close them repeatedly at times. For the most part, I simply clench my jaw now, or go with the more acceptable, but still somewhat annoying to others leg shaking. I sometimes get lost in parts of objects. I'm not even sure what I'm thinking about. I kind of zone out. I especially like spinning parts, like fans, or even better, spinning chrome rims. I also like staring at running water. They are rather amusing to me, though I'm unsure why.

Finally, and this is why my mission is to undermine and reform Psychology/Psychiatry, is that the lines are too unclear between the disorders. That's why there are so many incorrect diagnoses. Where others accept gray areas, I see only the finer black and white dots that gray is comprised of. Furthermore, the DSM should be completely revised (more-so than what's going in the DSM5). Most disorders should be on varying spectrums and severity levels that interlink to form others. I am currently developing a model for a more accurate diagnosis, as well as far more efficient and effective (and mostly drug-free) recovery plans.

Also, because I exhibit a sufficient number of characteristics for each, I could technically be diagnosed with: Asperger's, XYZ Dys-ability, Borderline Personality Disorder, Sociopathy, ADHD, General Anxiety, Social Anxiety, OCD, Post-traumatic Stress Disorder, Tourette's, Depression, Insomnia, Circadian Rhythm Sleep Disorder, Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Paranoid Personality Disorder, Oppositional Defiant Disorder, and maybe a couple others if I remembered what they meant. To me, the closest thing that can look like most or all of these is Asperger's Syndrome. Or perhaps I really do have a combination of all. So far, I have an official diagnosis of Severe ADHD Combined Type, Moderate Depression, Severe Anxiety. Although that Psychiatrist was an ADHD specialist, so is bias towards that diagnosis (and a quack to boot). We'll see what the educational assessment says. I also have the local Autism society trying to help me find a diagnosis as well.

Thank you for your interest Dr. Holly.

Sorry jimtaylor if I appear to be hijacking your thread in some fashion. It's just that everything you've said so far really stands out for me. I can be horribly wrong in this, but I think a part of the problem for doctor's to recognize these things in us is because we are highly intelligent (not an ego pump or insult to any other. I'm referring to a high reasoning ability) and incredibly self-aware. I think the basis for most tests and the DSM is on a simpler understanding of the average awareness. I find that if I can rationally explain how I exhibit each symptom of ADHD, I magically no longer have ADHD. Same the Psychologist that says it can't be Autism because you can show empathy.
 
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I wanted to bring this thread back up because I think it had some unfinished ideas and thoughts. I have been doing therapy for a little over a year now and spent a lot of time with my younger brother. I can easily see the differences between us, especially now that he lives with me. We get along very well because our personalities can be very similar but at the same time, they couldn't be anymore different.

I have patience with him that others do not, not just because he is my brother but also because I relate to a lot of what he talks about. It's different though. We have gone to parties together and we do social events together. We have both made a conscious effort in the last 8 months to be more social with people.

It has paid off and one of the things we do after is just talk about the night. Talk about the problems we ran into, the challenges of certain situations. Whether it be a topic we struggled talking on or a moment where we tried to read another's body language and just couldn't do it. A lot of it we rationalize to that both of us over thought certain things and our gut instinct was correct but it is just too easy for the both of us to go to a state of measuring every action.

It's almost like as if we put a paper down and draw a diagram of two actions. In one circle would be the possibility of it meaning one action and in the other it meaning a different action and then in the middle both. We both approach social cues and body language much like how we would approach a written out math problem.

We take all the available data and lay it out before us and using a process of elimination, get to the answer with the highest probability of being correct based of the present information available. It sounds complicated but it happens in an instant and neither of us are math geniuses. It is just the same level of measurement.

The worst are actions that can equally mean one thing or another. That is when both of us get frustrated because we feel the person is leading us on and not just being straight forward. We know this is not their intention but it is still a frustration because we just are not catching the
 
I thought I might have asperger's syndrome for a while. I identified a great deal with both the traits and people's experience of it. However, I found a thread on the INTJ forum which basically said 90% of INTJs identify with high functioning autism in some way. Most responded with "I may think differently, but in what way is that bad?". I decided to take that attitude as well.

As a friend of mine said "If you find a name or an idea helpful, then use it. Just don't force yourself into a box". And yes she's an INFP, but it makes sense.
 
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