awaking to the universal self

Morgain

Morgain

defective wisdom
Donor
MBTI
INFJ again
Enneagram
4w5
what are your thoughts on this:

Zen Buddhist teaching is often full of paradox, in order to loosen the grip of the ego and to facilitate the penetration into the realm of the True Self or Formless Self, which is equated with the Buddha himself.[102] According to Zen master, Kosho Uchiyama, when thoughts and fixation on the little 'I' are transcended, an Awakening to a universal, non-dual Self occurs: ' When we let go of thoughts and wake up to the reality of life that is working beyond them, we discover the Self that is living universal non-dual life (before the separation into two) that pervades all living creatures and all existence.'.[103] Thinking and thought must therefore not be allowed to confine and bind one. Nevertheless, Zen does not neglect the scriptures

does anyone has had experienced this (bold lines)? Do you believe that stoping the fixation on the "I" will help to awake to a universal self? And have you experienced this shift in awareness?

(please only reply when you are serious and have an open mind)
 
To be honest, very alluring.... But at the same time ever sceptical, which is too bad. But very alluring nonetheless! I think that NF's are generally at least "intrigued" by notions like transcendence. I think they spend a lot of time thinking about these things... :P
 
Morgain said:
does anyone has had experienced this (bold lines)? Do you believe that stoping the fixation on the "I" will help to awake to a universal self? And have you experienced this shift in awareness?
Click to expand...

I do think elimination of awareness of personal Self, or individuated
 
@Morgain, I love this kind of thing. I honestly believe that so many traditional more clinical therapies have seemed to miss the spiritual component when it comes to helping people grow and move forward. I think that first off, it's necessary to identify the "ego" when it comes to analyzing people's behaviors. I am aproching your OP in the direction of traditional healing, because I firmly believe that most people begin their quests for Higher awareness when they feel they have outgrown some aspects of their lives. Often times in the forms of looking beyond the mundane, poor relationships etc.

I would also tend to agree with the statement that NF's spend time thinking about these types of things. While I don't generally see intuition and spirituality as linked, (as intuition is a birthright that many societies don't foster an interest in developing), I do see intuitive people put more thought into spirituality just out of sheer interest. As, spirituality is a mysterious and curiously unproven topic, many of us simply apply the evidential statement: "I don't need to see to believe, I need to believe, to see".

To answer your question, my thoughts on Universal Consciousness is that we simply need to acknowledge that we are all a sum of the collective. We exist both within it, and outside of it due to our physical bodies. However, as Humans evolve, we are heading towards enlightenment and are quickly awakening to forms of telepathy and other energies. In time, we won't need to ask questions like this, we will already just have a better and more unified understanding of the concept.
 
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I operate my life beneath the principle that life isn't about heirarchy. I believe in the interconnectedness of all living things. It is all circles within circles within circles. It depends on where you are at. Imagine the first circle as self. I am born, I am aware of my needs only, I cry, I am but an infant. Eventually I understand that there are others, my family. Another circle is built around the first circle of self. I grow and relalize I am part of a community, another circle. I am part of a nation, another circle. I am part of a world, another circle. I am part of a universe, another circle. All are contained with self being at the center, not apart in a heirachy of above or below, but connected and emeshed within. I believe it is the contrast between the known (self) and the unknown (other) that enables you to build those circles. We define our world by contrasting "different" (unknown) in an overbalanced way. We rarely struggle to truly see "same" (known). I don't think I will have the answer as to if I have ever done such because I don't think that journey ever ends, there is always another circle.

I also believe that when you balance between understanding both the difference and the same, that you are capable of capturing the essense of what you are talking about. There is no space between the circles of understanding, you have meshed your circles into one.
 
to answer my own question. This is where I am right now


I'm currently reading the newest book of Patrick Rothfuss "death mans fear". I was expecting to be entertained with an excellent fantasy book but realized it is much more than that. It has some hidden wisdom. Things I have heard before but where so difficult to put my finger on are now described in normal language.

The story is about this boy Kvothe that is studying magic in a University. While most of the things he learns fall more under the name of science than magic. But there is this one teacher who is trying to learn him the art of "naming". When you know the true name of something (for example the wind) you will have full mastership over it.
I think the "naming of things" is the same as searching enlightement, awakeness. I think when you are awake you see things as they are, you see the connection between things. You see the "wind", you know the wind, you are the wind. That is to me knowing the true name of wind


Anyway. The teacher says that finding the name of the wind is not something you can learn with your brain. He says that in each of us there is a mind we use for all our waking deeds. But there is another mind as well, a sleeping mind. (This is nothing new. Medicine knows that we have an central nerve system and an autonome nerve system. The autonome nerve system is in charge of everything we do unconsciously.)The teacher says: "the sleeping mind is wide and wild enough to hold the names of things. This I know because sometimes this knowledge bubbles to the surface.

the way he teach his students resembles very much to zen with their koans: misleading, giving an answer to a question that is not realy an answer. And this makes it more clear to me what the point is of the koans in zen. They trick the wake mind. They confuse the mind to the point that it stops thinking things over and at that point the sleeping mind can take over.
It is also something that is written in the Tao Te Tjing but it has always been hard to pull my mind around it. The Tao Te Tjing says.

Heaven and Earth began from the nameless (Tao),
but the multitudes of things around us were created by names.

We desire to understand the world by giving names to the things we see,
but these things are only the effects of something subtle.

When we see beyond the desire to use names,
we can sense the nameless cause of these effects.

further in the book Kvothe experiences a switch in his 'state of mind'. He describes it as followed: "Over the next couple of days I came to think of that odd mental state as Spinning Leaf. It seemed like a distant cousin To Heart of Stone, the mental exercise I'd learned so long ago. That said, there was little similarity between the two. Heart of Stone was practival: it stripped away emotion and focused my mind and concentrate on a task. On the other hand, Spinning Leaf Seemed largely useless. It was relaxing to let my mind grow clear and empty, then float and tumble lightly from one thing to the next. But aside from helping me draw answers to Tempi's Questions out of thin air, it seemed to have no practical value. It was the mental equivalent of a card trick

This is something that resembles very much what I have started to experience a while ago. My mind goes completely fuzzy. I can not focus on thoughts, they float by meaningless. I have to concentrated hard to find the answer to a logical question and I can not solve logical problems. But my sences are more subtile. While my mind is not thinking and trying to pull itself around every day problems there is suddenly space for more "awareness". I start to feel there is more between heaven and earth (to steel someone else's quote :D ) but I struggle with putting my finger to it. I want to implement that in my every day life but it seems to be impossible. For my everyday life I have to wake up my mind again and the longer I'm using my waking mind, the further my sleeping mind is drifting off and the harder it is to be 'aware'

does this ring a bell to anyone of you?
 
It is difficult to escape the illusion of self as separate. It seems we sense differences, but intuit similarities. When we become fully present, aware in particular moment, we begin to understand the interconnectedness of all things. It is an epiphany inexplicable by rational thought, and can only be felt, as an instant of timeless time.
 
Ria said:
To answer your question, my thoughts on Universal Consciousness is that we simply need to acknowledge that we are all a sum of the collective. We exist both within it, and outside of it due to our physical bodies. However, as Humans evolve, we are heading towards enlightenment and are quickly awakening to forms of telepathy and other energies. In time, we won't need to ask questions like this, we will already just have a better and more unified understanding of the concept.
Click to expand...

I really hope we are heading towards enlightenment and that we don't have to search for wisdom but just experience it. I think this has been my goal since I have put foot on earth


It is to bad that this knowledge is so hard to find. And this society doesn't even search. We are in a state of believing. Our religion is about believing. But believing is not knowing. Believing is empty and it does not lead to wisdom. It leads to morals and slowly they become rules. Rules that are empty and are about action and reaction. You do this or you are punished. But where do the rules come from? What is there origin? What is good and what is wrong and how to tell the difference. I think you can only make the right choices when you are aware. When you don't base your choices on rules but on your own inner compass.
 
dream echo said:
It is difficult to escape the illusion of self as separate. It seems we sense differences, but intuit similarities. When we become fully present, aware in particular moment, we begin to understand the interconnectedness of all things. It is an epiphany inexplicable by rational thought, and can only be felt, as an instant of timeless time.
Click to expand...

what is epiphany?
 
The inner compass is something I hope to use as useful analogy here. Anyone enable to do that is someone I wish to help me to create a new and revolutionary militia designed to destroy hierarchies, and delusional thought forms, at least from our own minds. Anybody with me, or do I do this alone?
 
infinite electron said:
The inner compass is something I hope to use as useful analogy here. Anyone enable to do that is someone I wish to help me to create a new and revolutionary militia designed to destroy hierarchies, and delusional thought forms, at least from our own minds. Anybody with me, or do I do this alone?
Click to expand...

If your purpose is to help others to find there own inner compass so the world would be full of wise aware people, then I'm in :D
 
I feel I have, though the experience is difficult to explain. It encompasses the paradox that my own personal existence is unimportant in the scheme of things, yet vital as I'm a part of the greater whole. I apologize if this makes no sense. It's not something I've ever tried to explain with thought or words.
 
I have experienced this first hand. It became a major focus in my life once I found out about it and I work to maintain it everyday. I randomly picked up eckart tolle's book The Power of Now next to my friends bed and started reading it. He is very good at explaining all of this and making it something you can apply across all of the various facets of your life. I think NF's are just naturally drawn to this and taking the time to sort of process the information thats out there can be pretty profound if you allow it to be. The problem is that some people are just not interested in even going down this road, or they are weary of other people who 'claim to know' stuff like this because as we all know, every dangerous cult is claiming the exact same thing. If you are interested Id recommend the works of Eckart Tolle and alan watts. Both are very effective at sort of translating this spiritual stuff to something a westerner can digest.
 
I agree, this is good stuff and a bit of a never-ending process to align with. One has to start somewhere though. In the end, the reality is difficult to capture with words. Thankfully, some try and give us vital navigational pointers. Although the words (and the paradoxes they contain) often seem a bit ethereal, this path winds up being very basic to our essential humanity, immensely practical, and in the end is the only reality that makes sense on all fronts. Joy and peace are found on this path, even in a chaotic world.
 
Morgain said:
I really hope we are heading towards enlightenment and that we don't have to search for wisdom but just experience it. I think this has been my goal since I have put foot on earth. It is to bad that this knowledge is so hard to find.
Click to expand...

Depending on the culture you are in and from, it certainly can be. Yet, there are cultures and people today who have not lost touch with this knowledge, nor the rituals that are part of the perennial wisdom traditions that inform that knowledge. Seek those cultures and peoples out, and take note of the commonalities among them, and in particular, their relationships with the plants of the Earth.

That said,
 
Pretty sure I've seen this video posted here before, but I'm posting it again anyway as it seems relevant.

http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html

For those too lazy or busy to watch it, it's basically about how the lady in the video (a neuroanatomist) suffered a stroke in the left hemisphere of her brain, and how during the stroke (when she was almost completely reliant on her still-functioning right hemisphere) she experienced feelings of 'Nirvana' and a 'oneness with everything' and stuff like that.

EDIT: Okay, that's weird. The url is correct, but it's not linking to the page. =/
For those who want to watch it, try this link, and it should be the first video listed.

http://www.ted.com/search?q=jill+bolte+taylor
 
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Morgain said:
This is something that resembles very much what I have started to experience a while ago. My mind goes completely fuzzy. I can not focus on thoughts, they float by meaningless. I have to concentrated hard to find the answer to a logical question and I can not solve logical problems. But my sences are more subtile. While my mind is not thinking and trying to pull itself around every day problems there is suddenly space for more "awareness". I start to feel there is more between heaven and earth (to steel someone else's quote :D ) but I struggle with putting my finger to it. I want to implement that in my every day life but it seems to be impossible. For my everyday life I have to wake up my mind again and the longer I'm using my waking mind, the further my sleeping mind is drifting off and the harder it is to be 'aware'

does this ring a bell to anyone of you?
Click to expand...

I'm really not sure if I understood the one you said like you meant it but I felt this like last year and continuously. I don't think anymore it's like I can't focus and concentrate. I have to try reeeeallllyyy hard to remember things. Whenever someone says something, I don't think about it and I don't process it in my head but I know how it feels, I know what it's about. I just know without processing. BUT I really think I was getting dumb.... I thought I was too stressed because I just can't process well and I really need to THINK A LOT in school especially when writing essays or doing poem analysis.

so I started trying hard to process things again and it slowly came back. :
 
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