Belief in God

[wiredandwound]

The way people equate love to a mere chemical reaction drives me insane. What a cold way to view anything so precious.

I would argue, a parent’s love for their children is far deeper than a mere chemical reaction. One second, you can’t stand the little jerks. At the same time, you would set yourself on fire to cure them of even the smallest of heartaches.

I believe, this is achieved with other humans as well.

With the god question. The physical human brain, along with imposed logic, and experiences from other brains, (which is arguably different than the mind, or being), tends to attempt to anthropomorphize that which is not readily attainable in this physical reality.

It’s not a question if there is a god. It’s merely a question of a personal belief in something no one can prove along with deeply personal experiences.

The same time, we can argue quantum physics in which, theoretically, we create our own reality, and as a consequence, bring immaterial things to be material, non existing, to existing. Including other dimensions and supposed afterlife.

It’s entirely plausible to create a lake of fire for your eternity. Same as gawd damned Candy Mountain for your eternity. At least, until you manifest another reality.

I agree that the view that were are merely the accidents of bumping particles is a very cold and demoralizing situation.

I have never had an issue with attributing science and God together. The fact is that philosophy (natural philosophy to be exact), was the foundation of science, physics, and mathematics.

Today, the institutions have removed philosophy from physics and have formed their own cult of Quantum insanity. Neil DeGrasse Tyson, Bill Nye, and Michio Kaku are their cult leaders.

3/4 of my senior engineers have been Christians, if that tells you anything.

 

[Skrimpshidy]

I agree that the view that were are merely the accidents of bumping particles is a very cold and demoralizing situation.

I have never had an issue with attributing science and God together. The fact is that philosophy (natural philosophy to be exact), was the foundation of science, physics, and mathematics.

Today, the institutions have removed philosophy from physics and have formed their own cult of Quantum insanity. Neil DeGrasse Tyson, Bill Nye, and Michio Kaku are their cult leaders.

3/4 of my senior engineers have been Christians, if that tells you anything.

Yes!
While I am not a Christian, or believer of any religion. I was a practicing Christian most my life. Intimately familiar with generally all aspects. All the way to being able to quote Biblical texts etc.

One thing that keeps getting dismissed is the very personal spiritual experiences by individuals. Where, one, may not experience a thing within the constraints of legality of religious texts, which to me seem to intentionally limit any foundation of open mindedness, though with good intention, and actually creates a new reality, perspective, hope, and guidance to humans. I can’t find a reason to try to disprove any of it.

Though, when it comes to abuses, which, in certain religious texts, I cannot morally align myself with such concepts.

If belief in a divine being causes outpouring of love and charity, progressing human kind towards a better future.....I’m all for it.
Though, just as in everything. Cocksuckers get involved. Ruin the party for everyone.

On one hand, forgiveness is a beautiful thing. On the other, allowing hateful pricks to run rampant while another practices humility and believing an invisible force will reconcile.... I believe it creates a victim mentality causing inaction and there in, allowing bad deeds to flourish and further prove the point. Stepping on human’s backs and faces is the only way to move forward.


Rather realizing, the collective has the same interests. Love, survival, security, etc.....

Some with more gentle spirits do nothing, some shut down. Worse yet, some with warrior spirits confront injustice head on and are labeled insane because it’s obvious and we don’t hide it. The same time, so called religious leaders, or other shit faces are sneaky and pretend, gaslight, abuse, and create trauma bonding through covert tactics.

While the forefront, oh,,,,, how shocking! They didn’t let me get away with shit! But look how they act! Despite the years and years of human suffering by their blackened hand and alligator smile.

I think some can’t smell the shit for it being shoved in their nose.

 

[wiredandwound]

which to me seem to intentionally limit any foundation of open mindedness

I find it to be a true of just people in general. Everyone has a belief system which they adhere to.

I am the fiercest critic of false doctrine. I cannot disagree with anything you said.

Almost every single commonly understood concept in Christianity is false, taken out of context, and dogmatically corrupt. Most people haven't read the Bible, and most of them that have, only read into it what they want it to say. It's actually quite easy to understand.

While I am not a Christian, or believer of any religion.

I must address this since Religion and Christianity are not the same thing. Christianity is the philosophy of forgiveness through grace. It says clearly in black and white, that nobody is able to save themselves or deserving, but through grace.

Most people cannot wrap their head around that everything Jesus said to the "religious" leaders was in condemnation of religion.

I must add that in truth, God cannot or will not prevent humans from being evil - it never has been His job or responsibility. From the time of the Garden of Eden, He has declared that man must live by the results of his own choices. God does not "allow bad things to happen to good people", as is said by almost every critic. Bad things are a result of the curse we were bestowed by our own denial of Truth.

People keep blaming God or Jesus for the things people do to each other. God has never prevented sin, nor can he. For if He did, it would negate our free-will to honor and obey Him.

That said, I am only interested in the philosophy of it's truth. Which is to love thy neighbor as thyself. That's all the restriction and closed mindedness it has. People are the ones who make it closed minded.

 

[Skrimpshidy]

Y

I find it to be a true of just people in general. Everyone has a belief system which they adhere to.

I am the fiercest critic of false doctrine. I cannot disagree with anything you said.

Almost every single commonly understood concept in Christianity is false, taken out of context, and dogmatically corrupt. Most people haven't read the Bible, and most of them that have, only read into it what they want it to say. It's actually quite easy to understand.



I must address this since Religion and Christianity are not the same thing. Christianity is the philosophy of forgiveness through grace. It says clearly in black and white, that nobody is able to save themselves or deserving, but through grace.

Most people cannot wrap their head around that everything Jesus said to the "religious" leaders was in condemnation of religion.

I must add that in truth, God cannot or will not prevent humans from being evil - it never has been His job or responsibility. From the time of the Garden of Eden, He has declared that man must live by the results of his own choices. God does not "allow bad things to happen to good people", as is said by almost every critic. Bad things are a result of the curse we were bestowed by our own denial of Truth.

People keep blaming God or Jesus for the things people do to each other. God has never prevented sin, nor can he. For if He did, it would negate our free-will to honor and obey Him.

That said, I am only interested in the philosophy of it's truth. Which is to love thy neighbor as thyself. That's all the restriction and closed mindedness it has. People are the ones who make it closed minded.

Yes! The philosophy of Christianity does have uniqueness because of the idea of grace.

Which, oddly has stipulations and is finite. Odd for an infinite ideology or infinite being.


More so, If I said the same things to my loved ones god says in the Christian book, it would for all intents, be mental and emotional abuse.

However, othets take comfort in the same words. I for one love the idea of all those who hurt other humans get to burn forever...(Internal INFJ rage) the idea of redemption is comforting. (That those I door slammed have opportunity to come back.) forgiveness is such a hard issue.

Depending on justice by this invisible yet anthropomorphic force is a wonderful idea.


Yet, I’m left with the knowledge of atrocities.
Hell, I woke up to check the weather so I know how to dress on my motorcycle ride to work. The news told us about a 16 month old baby who was raped and murdered the night before.

In the next room was my sweet little 16 month old daughter. Sleeping peacefully in safety.

I got so mad! I destroyed a wall waking up my confused wife. Never watched the news again. Consequently my tolerance for hurtful humans dropped to zero.

Devils advocate can kiss my ass!

 

[wiredandwound]

Yes! The philosophy of Christianity does have uniqueness because of the idea of grace.

Very True

Which, oddly has stipulations and is finite. Odd for an infinite ideology or infinite being.

I'm not sure what you are referring to. Can you elaborate on which stipulations?

More so, If I said the same things to my loved ones god says in the Christian book, it would for all intents, be mental and emotional abuse.

Can you elaborate on this one also. I really am not sure.

However, others take comfort in the same words. I for one love the idea of all those who hurt other humans get to burn forever...(Internal INFJ rage) the idea of redemption is comforting. (That those I door slammed have opportunity to come back.) forgiveness is such a hard issue.

This one is tricky for the unbeliever. Redemption does not require action. Nothing a person can do can bring redemption onto to themselves. Likewise, nothing a person does causes them to lose their salvation. I know it's difficult to understand. Maybe at another time, we can break down the context and examples.
What God deems redeemable is not based on how they treated other men, but what their relationship with Him was. Believe me, I have those same toxic people in my mind as I write this.

Depending on justice by this invisible yet anthropomorphic force is a wonderful idea.

redemption is the opposite of justice. It is giving salvation to the undeserved. This is one of the major misconceptions of popular belief. Jesus' death was for the sinner (that means you and me). God provided His son to pay for ALL the sins of the world, the undeserved, the lost. We are all lost in the sight of God, but Jesus' paid the price.

I got so mad! I destroyed a wall waking up my confused wife. Never watched the news again. Consequently my tolerance for hurtful humans dropped to zero.

I agree. I haven't watched the news in almost 20 years. I feel the exact same way. I have become cold to the plight of people who bring it upon themselves.

Like I said this will be very difficult for someone who has not really explored what the Bible actually says. The popular understanding is atrociously inaccurate - just like the news you are talking about.

I'm an electrical engineer by trade, and I have no problems attributing both God and science together.

Peace.

 

[Skrimpshidy]

Very True


I'm not sure what you are referring to. Can you elaborate on which stipulations?


Can you elaborate on this one also. I really am not sure.


This one is tricky for the unbeliever. Redemption does not require action. Nothing a person can do can bring redemption onto to themselves. Likewise, nothing a person does causes them to lose their salvation. I know it's difficult to understand. Maybe at another time, we can break down the context and examples.
What God deems redeemable is not based on how they treated other men, but what their relationship with Him was. Believe me, I have those same toxic people in my mind as I write this.


redemption is the opposite of justice. It is giving salvation to the undeserved. This is one of the major misconceptions of popular belief. Jesus' death was for the sinner (that means you and me). God provided His son to pay for ALL the sins of the world, the undeserved, the lost. We are all lost in the sight of God, but Jesus' paid the price.


I agree. I haven't watched the news in almost 20 years. I feel the exact same way. I have become cold to the plight of people who bring it upon themselves.

Like I said this will be very difficult for someone who has not really explored what the Bible actually says. The popular understanding is atrociously inaccurate - just like the news you are talking about.

I'm an electrical engineer by trade, and I have no problems attributing both God and science together.

Peace.

I’m intimately familiar with the Christian bible. I was practicing (became honest and realized I don’t believe) for most my life until 2 years ago.

You seem to hold a more Armenian belief. Most of my experiences came from more Calvinistic teachings. So, there may be some bias to my interpretations. Also, other beliefs shared by other believers.

Where stipulations come to mind.... Yes, we can’t redeem ourselves. No actions, no sacrifice determine salvation through Jesus Christ. However, we are still expected to behave and do certain things. Obviously though the old law is done away through Jesus on the cross, there is still law. A list of things which are deemed sin. In which, if you participate in those things, you are said to not be a true follower of Jesus.

This can be tricky too. Obviously there is a moral standard. Which goes great with INFJ thinking. Yes, you should want to please your god. Still, having stipulations required to show you follow, to me, doesn’t resonate with free redemption. Not sure if I’m clear on this part. Probably should be fully awake before replying.

Where emotional or mental abuse comes into mind, we are told we are sinners. Born evil, deserving of nothing but eternal damn nation. Before a baby has had a chance to do right or wrong. Just the point of existing is an affront to all things holy and righteous.

All through the bible, ot or nt, we are told how wicked and evil we are. BUT! God lives is anyway because he is good. Then we are given new sets of rules to please only him. Weather they benefit us or not. We mean nothing except that god is so good he decided to love us anyway. The rules kept changing and added to up until Jesus died on the cross.

At the same time, he says he is doing this for us, but, what he went through is what we all deserved just for being born a fallible creature. To me this creates cognitive dissonance. I’m not sure if you’ve been in an abusive situation. I have and it’s eerily similar.

Imagine telling your 5 year old child the same. “You are an evil nasty person. You don’t even deserve to be fed, clothed, sheltered. But! Because I’m so great, out of the kindness of my heart I do these things. I created you, but, you don’t have to be my responsibility. Now, I want you to love me. If you love me, obey these rules. If you don’t then you don’t love me and I will throw you out in the streets. Which is what you really deserve.”

Do anything like that to anyone. It’s emotionally and mentally abusive. It’s control and dominance.

Keep in mind. In no way am I attacking your belief. This is just my perspective.

 

[wiredandwound]

A list of things which are deemed sin. In which, if you participate in those things, you are said to not be a true follower of Jesus.

There is only one "sin", and that is to reject God - to turn your back on Him.

What you are speaking of, our what are defined as "abominations". Now I know that this word seems harsh, but all it means is "something that is not as God created it to be".

That said... Do you know what else is an abomination?

Almost everything after the Fall in the Garden of Eden.

This is why we are ALL considered to be "unclean/unworthy" in the eyes of God. It is this "original sin", that Jesus paid for on the cross. This is also why Jesus refers to Himself as "The Son on man". This denoting that He is the rightful inheritor of Adam - which also means Man in translation. This is why the new Testament starts off with Jesus' family line, because it is of the utmost importance that He is denoted so. You have no doubt heard that the angels refer to the profits as "sons of man", but never "The son of man". Denoting that we are all inheritors of Adam's sin.

This is why Jesus said that the most important Commandment is "To love thy neighbor as thyself".

Who is your neighbor? Everyone, because we are all in the same condemnation as everyone else. Whether they are gay, straight, addicts, convicts, etc...

I absolutely abhor when christians hate on ANY type of people, for it is not Christian - and it is all clearly stated in the Bible to Love one another.

 

[ny7x]

i've been trying hard to not respond here and it turns out futile!

Let me merely grab the last branch i see and go from there..

Who is your neighbor? Everyone, because we are all in the same condemnation as everyone else. Whether they are gay, straight, addicts, convicts, etc...

I think i read an attempt for a definition of Christianity here, which is a good enough for a reason for me to respond.

Before we get there, i have a rhetorical question to those who need to hear it. (rhetorical = no response required)
Why do you always have to define Christianity alongside hypocrisy?
Is there any chance you are slightly misinformed due to one of the sins it describes? ('sloth' is not doing your spiritual work, not what Uncle Sam demands!)

Jesus did define what a cristian is.
He said when asked of how to enter the Kingdom of God : "Is it so hard to follow the 10 commandments?"
"IF IT IS, let me make them two for you!
Love thy neighbor as you do yourself, and put God, (the creator of all things, you included) above you both!"
(Matthew 22:36-40)

According to this definition, (let's consider this one more official)
i want to ask what "love" is, not alongside a question mark but an example instead.
consider this and tell me if the signs were "hating" or "judging" one's decisions until that point or merely warning BECAUSE of loving!
during an argument, do you take your "opponent's" shoes for a sec?
do you love his quest in life until meeting you, as you do yours?
then, would you give him a bad day if you yourself had one or do your best to overcome your pains for their day?
In business, do you look into how much the other party is saving as much as you do when considering how much you'll earn?
In life, would you share your food if you only had half a plate for a week ahead?
Would you cry and ruin your beautiful day when someone next to you does?
That's what Christianity is.
being you through assuring the well being of others!
And i think it has another name too.
"Empathy"

This argument (as any) is answered only when the proof starts flying in.
Till then, the beating around the bush about God's existence can last forever!

Denial to see the truth or its proof is not another truth in itself.
Can't wait for you to ask "and what is truth?"
but please, if you enjoy debating towards finding the truth and not for the sake of the debate itself,
use your words wisely so we can reach conclusions easier, without having to read the same again and again.

Discovering the truth about the trail we're on COULD indeed be a matter of life and death.
And wait a minute... no other religion speaks on death after death.
a concept of hell exists only in one book that defines it and claims all the other books come from there.
There's no hell according to buddhism
there's no hell according to Islam (capitalizing I for safety!)
there's no hell according to Judaism (similarly)
When considering our lives, should we go for what's easier to hear or for what is true concerning the trail we're on?

It's all safe they say!
all life, wherever you go! just "be kind" even if your brother is about to slide off the rock.
pat his back and give him water to continue the path!
Whatever you do, don't empathize too much and risk falling too (Buddhism says..)
you're a god in the making so ignore those who fall as they stall your progress! (it also says)

the only problem in this world is signs (they claim) because they can get irritating and time comes to get rid of them all!
..they claim!

But the Bible makes no claims.
A Buddhist, a Jew, a Muslim (that is not out to kill me as their 'gospel of love and of peace' calls them to in 109 verses)
They are all brothers to me according to its very foundation.
and my job (by instructions) is to try to protect them from death whatever the cost and recoil be back to me.
because i'll put their life over mine as i've been instructed to.

signs don't care for punches much anyway...
but they make sense to the literate only.

 

[ny7x]

There is only one "sin", and that is to reject God - to turn your back on Him.

false doctrine!
be advised, THAT is a heavy sin! to alter God's Word!
and there's a curse attached to it from God Himself and that's rare!
(in fact, that's not a sin either. sins are 7)
But we're warned against it heavily:
Mark 9:42
And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Revelation 22:18
For I testify unto everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book, if anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, and from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

Even if we don't understand the words, we must take extra care to do so before we forward them to others with the wrong meaning since it carries great responsibility to be responsible for leading them away.

What you are speaking of, our what are defined as "abominations". Now I know that this word seems harsh, but all it means is "something that is not as God created it to be".
Almost everything after the Fall in the Garden of Eden.

not quite right.

That said... Do you know what else is an abomination?

You don't either! Let's fix that.
an abomination is not a sin.
an abomination makes you sick while sin kills your spirit.
It's not God punishing you for sin either!
it's the sin itself and God wants us saved from our choices but He will not intervene with them
He does not even intervene in lucifer's free will but has allowed this battlefield to take place so we too can be tested on the side we choose.
If you're creating a city of diamonds, you surely don't want to invite thieves inside!

but that's another talk, let's go on about defining abomination.

Leviticus ch11:
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcasses in abomination.
12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

These (and others) are abominations towards ourselves and THEN there are abominations towards God.
Things WE do that make HIM sick!
There are 7 sins we're guilty of and will deprive us from entering the city unless we admit them and thank Jesus for his innocent blood that will cover them if we are selfless enough to admit.
Anyway again..

Leviticus18: 22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Deuteronomy 22:5
The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

Pretty much defines it well....

For any misconceptions about me, (judging a post is so easy to do!)
But to help you observe it better (P):
i did not start with the Bible
i arrived to it at my 35 having gone all the way through mathematics, astronomy, reasoning, witnessing (keeping eyes fixed on the question), experiencing, using telescopes while also studying philosophy and experimenting in parapsychology.
took all the wrong roads!
So i am not judging yours when i share findings!
I perceive your views as i've perceived the contradicting to them facts.

all <3 from a sign on your path.
maybe turn around?[/QUOTE]

 

[Pin]

I'm Catholic now.

 

[David54]

The bible is a book of man's relationship to God. . it is history, poetry, letters. . seems that if you want a relationship with God, get to know Jesus. .he's God after all. .the inconsistencies in the bible are man's words,, not Gods. . there are biblists, but that does not make you Christian.. following Jesus, that's Christianity