Belittling Someone's Pain

Trifoilum

Trifoilum

find wisdom, build hope.
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Whether in a Misery Olympics kind of way, or in a 'your pain isn't important stop whining' kind of dismissal, some people like to belittle others' pain.

And then whenever you start to demand justice or retribution or even just a listening ear, they get so..touchy, they will try anything they can to shut you up.

They start throwing accusations.

They start throwing 'statements and facts' that is supposed to nullify the demands. As if me secretly stealing your lunch makes it okay for me to be gangraped.

They start intimidating.

And then they start throwing buzzwords like 'identity politics'.

Just...

what makes these people act this way?
 
Trifoilum said:
Whether in a Misery Olympics kind of way, or in a 'your pain isn't important stop whining' kind of dismissal, some people like to belittle others' pain.

And then whenever you start to demand justice or retribution or even just a listening ear, they get so..touchy, they will try anything they can to shut you up.

They start throwing accusations.

They start throwing 'statements and facts' that is supposed to nullify the demands. As if me secretly stealing your lunch makes it okay for me to be gangraped.

They start intimidating.

And then they start throwing buzzwords like 'identity politics'.

Just...

what makes these people act this way?
Click to expand...

Most people just plain suck? Yeah, that about sums it up. Oh, and nothing is more annoying than people who are competitive when it comes to pain. Like after attempting suicide for the first time, you share this info with somebody and they dismiss your self-disclosure by claiming that they have attempted suicide over 100 times and that you are just an amateur, as if you can earn a medal for being the most pained person since Jesus was crucified or something. It is not a contest. And comparing pain is pretty futile. Most people simply are not very evolved when it comes to empathy and compassion and sympathy. So fuck them.
 
Narcissim is one possibility but I dislike the implication that every short-sighted, self-absorbed asshole you come across has a rare personality disorder. The fact of the matter is, most of the population is judgmental and insensitive unless it's their problem or a problem they deem 'worthy.' Then it's 'no one understands me - poor me.'

And honestly, it's just tunnel vision. Low compassion. The misguided idea that people just need to 'toughen up' and all their problems will go away or that your problems are not problems at all. At which point, you gotta say to yourself: I'm glad this person doesn't see my problem as a problem because if there ever comes a day that they have to deal with something similar to what I'm dealing, they will have an easier time of it. And if they don't, I hope they find the support they need. Which is what I'm going to go do right now. Their door is closed to me but I'm sure there is somewhere else I can go. I'll figure this out. I'll find a balance somehow.

It sucks to be a kind and sensitive person, I know. You feel so deeply and you're so attuned to other people's needs and you'd never dream of railroading over someone's feelings-- it makes it easy to expect that other people think and feel the same way you do. But they don't. And that's really the crux of the issue. Most people assume everyone thinks and feels the same way they do; their perspective on things colours everyone and everything and they assume everyone is going to react to things the same way they will and simply understand with a few words. This is true of compassionate folk and this is true of the not-so-compassionate folk. Different personalities, different creeds, different perspectives and yet we all think we are right and that we all ought to think the same.

You just gotta find your people. That's all you can do. You cant teach a fish to fly or climb a tree. You gotta take it for what it is. Don't approach that person again with your issues. Make room for them elsewhere in your life but leave your feelings and problems to those who know how to handle them constructively.

Personally, I think that the most likely explanation for people belittling or competing with other people's pain is that they themselves probably don't feel like they're being heard. That they're not getting the compassion they think they ought to get and its an expression of anger/frustration that has little to do with you or the nature of your problem and everything to do with their perception of how they've been treated in the past/understand how problems are dealt with. That, coupled with the tunnel vision that says 'everyone should feel x in this situation because I feel x,' and bam! you hit a brick wall.
 
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Dragon said:
Narcissism. And a bunch of other things.So many people are competing for medals in the oppression Olympics.

Anyway, this is why, in real life, I almost never express how I am feeling.
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Honestly, most people don't really want to know how you are really feeling. I don't even know why they ask. I am glad I have a therapist. I have no guilt or shame whatsoever ranting about my life. I just need to get it out sometimes in order to feel better. Same with writing, both on INFJ forum and with emailing and texting. I remember a while ago you were discussing your ptsd. Most people can not fathom that type of pain. They simply can't relate. And it makes them feel very uncomfortable. Severe psychic pain is a powerful and intimidating force. It can overwhelm the individual and others who are exposed to it as well. There is still plenty of stigma and ignorance surrounding mental illness. Admitting that I have an anxiety disorder or OCD can still trip people out. They either think I am exaggerating, as many people do nowadays, or they think that what I am saying is just the tip of the iceberg and that I must be completely damaged. I also have had to convince people that having OCD does not mean I am crazy. I like to pretend that I am a little crazy at times, especially on this forum, but I may be strange, but I am far from crazy. And there are many people out there who have never seen a therapist who actually are quite disturbed. I attended a voluntary day treatment program at a psychiatric hospital about 20 years ago for group therapy after I dropped out of college for the second time. I met people all along the mental illness spectrum, from slightly troubled to completely dysfunctional. I learned a lot about mental health, way more than I ever learned from reading. I didn't just read about borderline personality disorder, I attempted to befriend and even date some girls with this diagnosis. There are many very pained people in this world. But many people confuse suffering with pain, or psychic pain. Just because you aren't starving doesn't mean you have it easy, and just because you are poor doesn't mean you are automatically miserable. It can be very difficult gauging another individual's pain. So most don't really bother. They give you a label and then move on. In a sense it is pretty inherently belittling to just label somebody a schizophrenic or something and think that that label really captures their experience. And there are people who are very healthy and functional, who still deal with extraordinary pain due to life events such as being widowed. Although I think most people feel much more comfortable offering sympathy for somebody grieving the loss of a family member than they do for other sources of pain like depression. We have come a long way in many respects, but we still have a long way to go. To me, there is really nothing more sacred and distinctly human than confronting and accepting one's personal, private, spiritual pain (or shadow for that matter). And at the end of the day, what other people think of your pain is pretty irrelevant. I know I have nothing to prove. My eyes convey the untold pain of my life. They are scarred with all I have experienced, all that I have been exposed to since birth. Nobody can ever really belittle or diminish your pain once you have formed a strong relationship with it. For me, I may not have any close friends in real life, but my pain is like my BFF. It is there for me, even when I am all alone. And for that I am oddly thankful. I couldn't imagine saying this when I was younger, but age does change one's perspective often. At the end of the day, those who belittle your pain are not truly in touch with their own. And sadly, it is their loss.
 
atree said:
Narcissim is one possibility but I dislike the implication that every short-sighted, self-absorbed asshole you come across has a rare personality disorder. The fact of the matter is, most of the population is judgmental and insensitive unless it's their problem or a problem they deem 'worthy.' Then it's 'no one understands me - poor me.'

And honestly, it's just tunnel vision. Low compassion. The misguided idea that people just need to 'toughen up' and all their problems will go away or that your problems are not problems at all. At which point, you gotta say to yourself: I'm glad this person doesn't see my problem as a problem because if there ever comes a day that they have to deal with something similar to what I'm dealing, they will have an easier time of it. And if they don't, I hope they find the support they need. Which is what I'm going to go do right now. Their door is closed to me but I'm sure there is somewhere else I can go. I'll figure this out. I'll find a balance somehow.

It sucks to be a kind and sensitive person, I know. You feel so deeply and you're so attuned to other people's needs and you'd never dream of railroading over someone's feelings-- it makes it easy to expect that other people think and feel the same way you do. But they don't. And that's really the crux of the issue. Most people assume everyone thinks and feels the same way they do; their perspective on things colours everyone and everything and they assume everyone is going to react to things the same way they will and simply understand with a few words. This is true of compassionate folk and this is true of the not-so-compassionate folk. Different personalities, different creeds, different perspectives and yet we all think we are right and that we all ought to think the same.

You just gotta find your people. That's all you can do. You cant teach a fish to fly or climb a tree. You gotta take it for what it is. Don't approach that person again with your issues. Make room for them elsewhere in your life but leave your feelings and problems to those who know how to handle them constructively.

Personally, I think that the most likely explanation for people belittling or competing with other people's pain is that they themselves probably don't feel like they're being heard. That they're not getting the compassion they think they ought to get and its an expression of anger/frustration that has little to do with you or the nature of your problem and everything to do with their perception of how they've been treated in the past/understand how problems are dealt with. That, coupled with the tunnel vision that says 'everyone should feel x in this situation because I feel x,' and bam! you hit a brick wall.
Click to expand...

Excellent perspective. Two thumbs up. Yeah, so much of life is people simply recapitulating and perpetuating garbage from their past. Just because your parents treated you like crap, does not mean it is inevitable that you treat others like crap later in life. The existential perspective enables one to have the freedom to recreate themself and their life, not to simply be fated to being a certain way. Most people are just stuck on a track that they don't know how to get off of, or they are unwilling to put in the work to make the necessary changes in order to become more considerate. And once again, many people just suck. You can't teach an old dog (adults) new tricks (empathy). Unfortunately.
 
atree said:
Narcissim is one possibility but I dislike the implication that every short-sighted, self-absorbed asshole you come across has a rare personality disorder. The fact of the matter is, most of the population is judgmental and insensitive unless it's their problem or a problem they deem 'worthy.' Then it's 'no one understands me - poor me.'

And honestly, it's just tunnel vision. Low compassion. The misguided idea that people just need to 'toughen up' and all their problems will go away or that your problems are not problems at all. At which point, you gotta say to yourself: I'm glad this person doesn't see my problem as a problem because if there ever comes a day that they have to deal with something similar to what I'm dealing, they will have an easier time of it. And if they don't, I hope they find the support they need. Which is what I'm going to go do right now. Their door is closed to me but I'm sure there is somewhere else I can go. I'll figure this out. I'll find a balance somehow.

It sucks to be a kind and sensitive person, I know. You feel so deeply and you're so attuned to other people's needs and you'd never dream of railroading over someone's feelings-- it makes it easy to expect that other people think and feel the same way you do. But they don't. And that's really the crux of the issue. Most people assume everyone thinks and feels the same way they do; their perspective on things colours everyone and everything and they assume everyone is going to react to things the same way they will and simply understand with a few words. This is true of compassionate folk and this is true of the not-so-compassionate folk. Different personalities, different creeds, different perspectives and yet we all think we are right and that we all ought to think the same.

You just gotta find your people. That's all you can do. You cant teach a fish to fly or climb a tree. You gotta take it for what it is. Don't approach that person again with your issues. Make room for them elsewhere in your life but leave your feelings and problems to those who know how to handle them constructively.

Personally, I think that the most likely explanation for people belittling or competing with other people's pain is that they themselves probably don't feel like they're being heard. That they're not getting the compassion they think they ought to get and its an expression of anger/frustration that has little to do with you or the nature of your problem and everything to do with their perception of how they've been treated in the past/understand how problems are dealt with. That, coupled with the tunnel vision that says 'everyone should feel x in this situation because I feel x,' and bam! you hit a brick wall.
Click to expand...

You misspelled NARCISSISM. Please fix it before it drives me insane. Typos are one of my pet peeves. Ordinarily I would let it slide, but it is the first word of your post. Hard to overlook. You still get an A though. Just not an A+.
 
dang said:
You misspelled NARCISSISM. Please fix it before it drives me insane. Typos are one of my pet peeves. Ordinarily I would let it slide, but it is the first word of your post. Hard to overlook. You still get an A though. Just not an A+.
Click to expand...

Well now I'm just going to leave it there. :P
 
Trifoilum said:
Whether in a Misery Olympics kind of way, or in a 'your pain isn't important stop whining' kind of dismissal, some people like to belittle others' pain.

And then whenever you start to demand justice or retribution or even just a listening ear, they get so..touchy, they will try anything they can to shut you up.

They start throwing accusations.

They start throwing 'statements and facts' that is supposed to nullify the demands. As if me secretly stealing your lunch makes it okay for me to be gangraped.

They start intimidating.

And then they start throwing buzzwords like 'identity politics'.

Just...

what makes these people act this way?
Click to expand...

Ah yes! The self absorbed, self centered, care only about themselves, emotional draining vampires of our world. Always want to talk about themselves and their problems and do not have one sympathetic or empathetic cell in their body.

I personally avoid them like the plague.

cb1fd2746c65c59894b241f7e802cbaf.jpg


Run away and avoid them if you can. If you cannot here is some helpful advice.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/roya-r-rad-ma-psyd/dealing-with-arrogant-people_b_990331.html
 
dang said:
You misspelled NARCISSISM. Please fix it before it drives me insane. Typos are one of my pet peeves. Ordinarily I would let it slide, but it is the first word of your post. Hard to overlook. You still get an A though. Just not an A+.
Click to expand...

LOL, Love it man, love it..

Genuinely smiled there..

Why waste time with paragraphs when you can just make the one super massive paragraph. The old Hebrew scribes would have paid you a fair coin for your skills Dang.
 
Trifoilum said:
Whether in a Misery Olympics kind of way, or in a 'your pain isn't important stop whining' kind of dismissal, some people like to belittle others' pain.

And then whenever you start to demand justice or retribution or even just a listening ear, they get so..touchy, they will try anything they can to shut you up.

They start throwing accusations.

They start throwing 'statements and facts' that is supposed to nullify the demands. As if me secretly stealing your lunch makes it okay for me to be gangraped.

They start intimidating.

And then they start throwing buzzwords like 'identity politics'.

Just...

what makes these people act this way?
Click to expand...
When anything is irrationally (emotionally) exaggerated, any attempt to bring it back to reasonable proportions could be viewed as belittling.

When people deal with their emotions directly, without externalising their cause or solutions, there is no basis for belittling, because emotions have no limit, even if they are measured against the ideal of serene contentment.

So, if you're feeling bad, deal with those feelings - and others will help you deal with them sympathetically; but if you decide that burning a flag will help, expect people to call you a fucking moron crybaby.

Emotional life is at its finest, imo when it is constructively integrated with rational and social life.
 
@Dragon : Narcissism is a (very high) possibility; but there are cases where this limited perspective appears in only a specific topic, and outside that topic they seem....adjusted. Normal.

Are there more narcissists than we thought? That sounds kinda terrifying.
Alternatively there are certain values present in society that made people act narcissistic (without necessarily having the personality disorder)

Also, I'm sorry to hear that you are forced to repress your feelings *hugs*

@dang :Most people ask about other people's feelings for courtesy, I think. Partly out of fear of being deemed selfish; partly out of habit.
Others ask because they do care / see something wrong in you, but there are also others who ask about other's feelings for self-reassurance.
Whether so they can feel superior / be grateful for what they have right now ("Hey, at least i'm not as bad as HER"), or so they are..secure ("See, he's fine! She's fine! Everyone's fine! The world's not burning!")

But regarding the Misery / Oppression Olympics; I think people do realize (subconsciously?) that sympathy and empathy are limited.
(And this does not mean you can't care of more than one thing at the same time)
So they try to put themselves first because hey, that means I'll get more help / attention / care.
 
atree said:
Narcissim is one possibility but I dislike the implication that every short-sighted, self-absorbed asshole you come across has a rare personality disorder. The fact of the matter is, most of the population is judgmental and insensitive unless it's their problem or a problem they deem 'worthy.' Then it's 'no one understands me - poor me.'

And honestly, it's just tunnel vision. Low compassion. The misguided idea that people just need to 'toughen up' and all their problems will go away or that your problems are not problems at all. At which point, you gotta say to yourself: I'm glad this person doesn't see my problem as a problem because if there ever comes a day that they have to deal with something similar to what I'm dealing, they will have an easier time of it. And if they don't, I hope they find the support they need. Which is what I'm going to go do right now. Their door is closed to me but I'm sure there is somewhere else I can go. I'll figure this out. I'll find a balance somehow.

It sucks to be a kind and sensitive person, I know. You feel so deeply and you're so attuned to other people's needs and you'd never dream of railroading over someone's feelings-- it makes it easy to expect that other people think and feel the same way you do. But they don't. And that's really the crux of the issue. Most people assume everyone thinks and feels the same way they do; their perspective on things colours everyone and everything and they assume everyone is going to react to things the same way they will and simply understand with a few words. This is true of compassionate folk and this is true of the not-so-compassionate folk. Different personalities, different creeds, different perspectives and yet we all think we are right and that we all ought to think the same.

You just gotta find your people. That's all you can do. You cant teach a fish to fly or climb a tree. You gotta take it for what it is. Don't approach that person again with your issues. Make room for them elsewhere in your life but leave your feelings and problems to those who know how to handle them constructively.

Personally, I think that the most likely explanation for people belittling or competing with other people's pain is that they themselves probably don't feel like they're being heard. That they're not getting the compassion they think they ought to get and its an expression of anger/frustration that has little to do with you or the nature of your problem and everything to do with their perception of how they've been treated in the past/understand how problems are dealt with. That, coupled with the tunnel vision that says 'everyone should feel x in this situation because I feel x,' and bam! you hit a brick wall.
Click to expand...

This is.....a sadly apt way of putting it all. :( And when placed this way; this is part the world and its 'teachings', part...human shortcomings, I think?
In that we are uncomfortable and inconvenienced by each other's pain while needing each other's care and love at the same time
And yes; I think it's a lesson in adulthood that each of us has different perspective and different standards on dealing with things-- and that expecting the world to follow our whim and standard is.........fallacious.

(which makes labels dangerous because my 'kindness' might be coming to your house bringing you soup while his 'kindness' might be dragging you out from the house and telling you to exercise day by day)

There are way too many brick walls :(
 
Trifoilum said:
Whether in a Misery Olympics kind of way, or in a 'your pain isn't important stop whining' kind of dismissal, some people like to belittle others' pain.

And then whenever you start to demand justice or retribution or even just a listening ear, they get so..touchy, they will try anything they can to shut you up.

They start throwing accusations.

They start throwing 'statements and facts' that is supposed to nullify the demands. As if me secretly stealing your lunch makes it okay for me to be gangraped.

They start intimidating.

And then they start throwing buzzwords like 'identity politics'.

Just...

what makes these people act this way?
Click to expand...

I was not familiar with the term identity politics and found an article by someone who was researching it in Singapore. I thought that some of it rang true and may apply to your post.

We're all equal, but "x-equals" just need to act right and we could all live in peace. /sarcasm

Edit: forgot, here's the link to the full article: 3 stumbling blocks in the politics of identity

The emphasis of the hyphenated identity has in many ways emphasized differences and perpetuated stereotypes. Perhaps the most hard done by the CMIO model is the simplistic terminology ascribed to those whom fall under the term ‘Other’, a term of convenience that fails to highlight the cultural and historical relevance of diverse vibrant cultures such as the Peranakans and Eurasians, many of whom are unique to this region.

Similarly, many diverse cultures, languages and traditions have been simplified by the groupings Chinese, Malay and Indian. In many ways, we have through an emphasis of an ethnic hyphenated identity, entrenched our differences while homogenizing our heterogeneity. In an increasingly globalized Singapore, we should abandon such a model and celebrate our differences through a singular national identity, Singaporean.


THE PRIMACY OF ECONOMICS

Since independence, our shared history has been defined and guided by an ideology of survival with economic growth seen as the only means through which we could stave off the doom that seemingly awaited a country with no real natural resources to fall back on. The ideology is not flawed but again, it has had the consequence of becoming the primary mantra by which our nation is defined.

While preparing to write this paper, I randomly approached colleagues, relatives, friends and neighbors and asked what they thought encapsulated the Singaporean identity. Many replied that Singapore was defined by economics. An uncle of mine summed this up best by telling me that our take on racial cohesion, national service, public transportation, immigration and all the other major issues that seem to generate debate about being Singaporean today are largely defined by our socio-economic status, not by any other defining difference.

In a country in which inequality is becoming an increasingly significant problem, this contention is a startling one. National Identity is a constantly evolving concept, dependent on how people conceptualize their Nation. An economically unequal Singapore will struggle to find a united identity, because it was the dream of economic success and its rhetoric that historically united us in the first place.
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@Zen : Yeah, I can very much understand running away from them, but at the same time I'm still--

-- why? What drove these people to do...this?

@Flavus Aquila : Perhaps you can say that-- "Well MY way of processing my feelings does not cause destruction or inconvenience for other people!" -- which is easier to measure, I agree; but why does criticizing their actions involves telling them that erh-- their emotions are exaggerated; their feelings are overblown? -Who- deemed a particular expression as exaggerated ?
 
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Sloe Djinn said:
I was not familiar with the term identity politics and found an article by someone who was researching it in Singapore. I thought that some of it rang true and may apply to your post.

We're all equal, but "x-equals" just need to act right and we could all live in peace. /sarcasm
Click to expand...
Thank you for the quote! It's very interested to see how it unfolds in Singapore.

And yes, I can say that such sentiments are present everywhere :(
 
I agree very much with what has already been said, so instead of uselessly parroting what others have more eloquently said, I propose an alternative view.

Sometimes perpetual whiny woe is me victims of people need to be brought to their senses and pulled out of there miopic world of self suffering.

While it can be self centered to shut down the emotions of others it can also be self centered to dump your emotions on someone else who has it objectively worse.

Kind of like the whole first world problems things.
 
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