BIGOT

[pale rider]

I would leave this if I could with, "Before you call someone a bigot, look in the mirror. Same goes for "racist".
...but, we shall see.

 

[slant]

I would leave this if I could with, "Before you call someone a bigot, look in the mirror. Same goes for "racist".
...but, we shall see.

Sticks and stones can break your bones, but words can never hurt you.

 

[aeon]

Sticks and stones can break your bones, but words can never hurt you.

Yet, there were times I thought a beating would have been easier. FML

Cheers,
Ian

 

[slant]

Yet, there were times I thought a beating would have been easier. FML

Cheers,
Ian

I guess we all have our own preferences. Personally I'd rather be called a name then beat the shit out of. I'd rather be called a name then to make a decision that has detrimental long term consequences simply because I'm afraid of being called a name. Emotional pain sucks but too many of us are controlled by emotional pain needlessly.

 

[aeon]

I’ve never met a devout Christian, of whatever denomination, that was a bigot, even allowing their missteps.

I’ve witnessed bigotry from some who professed to be Christian, or used Christianity as the basis of their bigotry.

No matter, as Love endures.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[TheDeathOfYouAndMe]

Bigot is a word that has been used as a means to ruin the reputation of someone who doesn't agree with their views. Majority of religious people I've met have been outstanding. It's the poisonous ones who grab the lime light because they are so far removed from what the reasonable believer is.

 

[John K]

I suspect that the word bigot is getting used more sharply these days because people are splitting more and more into distinct groups who are intolerant of any views but their own. There will be Christians who do seem to be bigoted, but there are folks from (e.g.) the woke communities who seem to be showing the same sort of behaviours.

Love and tolerance are surely what is needed for all but attitudes of obvious injustice. It’s not so long ago when folks who differed from mainstream views lost their livelihoods, their freedom and even their lives for it. America was founded by people who sought freedom from such a situation. I hope the world is not slowly returning to that same old game.

 

[pale rider]

The world, or the people in the world, nowadays seems to be going down the toilet. There is so much more we do not see when looking at an iceberg. Cause and effect can really mess with our world with climatic change. We may not all see things the same, but we may not all see things the same way.

What do you think about when looking at this? Can you think of a meaning?
I think it is proof of how differently people understand what they are seeing.

Some people see nothing. I see everything as black and white, as there are no grey areas. Otherwise, I am trying to make something out of nothing. Both sides could impel one to think of two sides that appear the same, split open and inverted.
That would suggest a right and a left side, but does that have anything to do with what it is. People that have studied this know what it is, do you think? I know there is a joke about these type pictures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ink_blot_test

Hahaha, this is about you
Beware, beware, be skeptical
Of their smiles, their smiles of plated gold
Deceit so natural
But a wolf in sheep's clothing is more than a warning
Baa baa, black sheep, have you any soul?
No sir, by the way, what the hell are morals?
Jack be nimble, Jack be quick
Jill's a little whore, and her alibis are dirty tricks
So could you
Tell me how you're sleeping easy
How you're only thinking of yourself
Show me how you justify
Telling all your lies like second nature
Listen, mark my words, one day (one day)
You will pay, you will pay
Karma's gonna come collect your debt
Aware, aware, you stalk your prey
With criminal mentality
You sink your teeth into the people you depend on
Infecting everyone, you're quite the problem
Fee-fi-fo-fum, you better run and hide
I smell the blood of a petty little coward
Jack be lethal, Jack be slick
Jill will leave you lonely, dying in a filthy ditch
So could you
Tell me how you're sleeping easy
How you're only thinking of yourself
Show me how you justify
Telling all your lies like second nature
Listen, mark my words, one day (one day)
You will pay, you will pay
Karma's gonna come collect your debt
Maybe you'll change
Abandon all your wicked ways
Make amends and start anew again
Maybe you'll see
All the wrongs you did to me
And start all over, start all over again
Who am I kidding?
Now, let's not get overzealous here
You've always been a huge piece of shit
If I could kill you, I would
But it's frowned upon in all fifty states
Having said that, burn in hell, yeah
Oh, oh, oh
So tell me how you're sleeping easy
How you're only thinking of yourself
Show me how you justify
Telling all your lies like second nature
Listen, mark my words, one day (one day)
You will pay, you will pay
Karma's gonna come collect your debt
Karma's gonna come collect your debt
Karma's gonna come collect your debt
Source: Musixmatch
Songwriters: Brandon Hall Paddock / Cody Carson / Dan Clermont
Wolf in Sheep's Clothing lyrics © Touchdown Browns Music

 

[John K]

What do you think about when looking at this? Can you think of a meaning?
I think it is proof of how differently people understand what they are seeing.

I love having a go at these. I don't know whether what I see is in line with the thread though ....

There are two woolly camels standing facing each other in a heraldic pose: that means that this is a symbol with many layers of meaning. Below them is a lady of ample proportions waving at them with white handkerchiefs. She’s doing more than waving; she represents the abundance of the Spirit with which she is supporting and approving them. Above each camel are the flames of the Spirit - is it descending or rising? Maybe both. The flames are above the camels’ humps which are a symbol of life sustained in the face of hardship - of sustenance and endurance in the desert. The lady is below them and she represents the Spirit dwelling within and rising up from the earth in joy to meet the Spirit from above.

The camels are surrounded by darkness, which is the darkness of ignorance of the Spirit, and the forces that are neutral to, or opposed to the Spirit, and it separates the camels from an awareness of the glory that surrounds them.

We are surrounded by the trials, griefs and evils of the world and we cannot connect to the Spirit directly very easily. But we are surrounded by it, and it is bursting with joy if we could only see. The darkness is only a little thing in comparison if only we could look beyond it.

The mythical heraldic pose means that this is an aspect of a fundamental perception in symbolic form, but each person will have a different relationship to it according to where they are and where they are coming from.

 

[Auggie]

A person of merit acts like a person of merit. Religion may have a role or not. To me, religion is an intensely personal part of oneself. Even if you are part of a group, congregation, etc., which discusses matters of faith, you are still keeping the most spiritual part to yourself. Anyway, I am generally indifferent to a person's religion unless that person uses it in the political arena. The establishment clause has a dual purpose: to keep government out of religious matters and to keep religion out of governmental matters - each corrupts the other. The Czech Republic has a rate of agnosticism of 87% or so. Why? Some moronic pope thought it would be brilliant to send a crusade against Bohemia hundreds of years ago. Scores died on both sides but Bohemia remained intact. And it remembered. (Yes, you could argue that the Church was acting out of faith - or greed for its temporal possessions.) Or, more recently, look at New England, once the fortress of Puritanism. (New Hampshire, part of the original colony, is the least religious state in the Union.)

 

[Jexocuha]

One of my favorite examples of bigotry comes from an Old Baptist hymn:

We are the pure and chosen few, and all the rest are damned. There’s room enough in hell for you — we don't want heaven crammed

 

[John K]

Anyway, I am generally indifferent to a person's religion unless that person uses it in the political arena.

It’s actually very hard to avoid that because both overlap widely in the ways they influence human attitudes and behaviours. It certainly affects the way I vote or express an opinion.

In our heterogeneous Western world we forget too how important religion can be as a political tool in the hands of government. It’s not just a strange quirk either but extremely powerful -which is why in the past it was a life threatening thing to go against the prevailing religion of your country. It was seen as a form of treason and that’s because it challenged the prevailing social structure and the authority of the rulers. It’s like this even today in parts of the world, and communism has acted in the same way in some countries.

It’s fascinating to see this in the very roots of Christianity - Jesus was executed for challenging the political status quo and so were other prophets of the Old Testament.

Im not saying this as a judgement but just observing what happens in practice. Is it a good thing? That’s another question and the answer from each of us will depend on our own values and principles.

 

[pale rider]

One of my favorite examples of bigotry comes from an Old Baptist hymn:

Not from the Bible. It says, Many are called, but few are chosen.

copied...
As can be deduced from the tone, Hitchens himself is no objective source here, and he does not claim to be picking from a Christian source. Rather, he is quoting a satrical work, hyperbolically intended to ridicule the Pharisitical tendencies of their enemies.

As cited in JewishJournal.com, Hitchens attributes this ditty to “English Calvinists,” suggesting that this would come from the English Civil War, in the early to mid 1600s. During this period, Catholics and Calvinists were killing each other pretty fiercely, so the invective would not be out of place. In the same way that “damn yankees” would characterize their southern slave holding brothers as stupid, so too the Catholics would easily, for propagandistic reasons, have the desire to mischaracterize the doctrine of election as an elitist thing.

In truth, most who believe in Election do not believe that they know if they are elect or not (hence Hitchens’ explanation), and in no event do they believe that it is in any way a good thing that others go to hell. They view it as a sad fact, not a source of glee.

The Slate article perpetuates this stereotype, however, stating:

“As I pointed out a few weeks ago, Perry has not just accepted Jesus Christ as his personal savior, but has expressed the view that those who do not join him are headed for eternal damnation.”

The article is clearly written by someone who doesn't understand what Christians believe, for the idea that one would rejoice in the degenerate’s fate would only be held by the unregenerate in the first place.

Calvin could be a rather strict guy (I’m not sure I’d go so far as to characterize him as Hitchens did, but he could be rather stern), but these are not his own words. Rather, it was invective from the beginning, and the fair-minded Hitchens is merely repeating the drivel from 500 years ago....unquote...from Christianity StackExchange.com

Never saw a reference to a Baptist hymnal, not in my lifetime. My Father wrote a song in the Baptist Hymnal.

 

[pale rider]

It’s fascinating to see this in the very roots of Christianity - Jesus was executed for challenging the political status quo and so were other prophets of the Old Testament.

I feel you surely know Jesus was changing the Old Testament to the New Testament. He drove the money exchangers from the Church. He challenged what the Church was doing. He made it where we did not have to go every year with a sin offering. He took away the remembrance of sin....The New Testament, which needed a testator in using Jesus.

 

[John K]

I feel you surely know Jesus was changing the Old Testament to the New Testament. He drove the money exchangers from the Church. He challenged what the Church was doing. He made it where we did not have to go every year with a sin offering. He took away the remembrance of sin....The New Testament, which needed a testator in using Jesus.

Absolutely. Because of the way that politics and religion were bound together in his time though, when he challenged the religious leaders of his time, it was also a political statement in their eyes because their authority was so inextricably linked to their interpretation of Jewish orthodoxy. Even the apostles thought he had come to restore the Kingdom of Judea, because that was understood to be what The Messiah was all about, and that too is very political.

Jesus made clear to Pilate didn't he that his kingdom was not one of this world. He had very different purposes, but his actions were still seen by the authorities of his day as dangerously political. It's been the same down the centuries sadly, hasn't it? Even today, it's dangerous to be a Christian in many parts of the world because of this. It's terrible what has happened to some of the world's oldest Christian communities in the Middle East over the last couple of decades.

 

[Jexocuha]

Not from the Bible. It says, Many are called, but few are chosen.

I understand, and yes I'm aware it's not in the Bible. I was giving an example of bigotry. I wasn't talking about Hitchens either.

Please don't take my reply to the thread the wrong way. Your beliefs are of no concern to me, and neither should mine be of concern to yours.

 

[Krypton]

The world, or the people in the world, nowadays seems to be going down the toilet. There is so much more we do not see when looking at an iceberg. Cause and effect can really mess with our world with climatic change. We may not all see things the same, but we may not all see things the same way.

What do you think about when looking at this? Can you think of a meaning?
I think it is proof of how differently people understand what they are seeing.

First thought--headphones hung on a really weird "artsy" rack.

Second thought--a stethoscope.

 

[pale rider]

Your beliefs are of no concern to me, and neither should mine be of concern to yours.

It is all good between us. I am concerned about everyone's beliefs, because I am concerned about everyone. Not here to try and change people. I like to keep words upright when speaking about Jesus.

As for the political figures:

Luke 23:3-16
King James Version

3 And Pilate asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answered him and said, Thou sayest it.

4 Then said Pilate to the chief priests and to the people, I find no fault in this man.

5 And they were the more fierce, saying, He stirreth up the people, teaching throughout all Jewry, beginning from Galilee to this place.

6 When Pilate heard of Galilee, he asked whether the man were a Galilaean.

7 And as soon as he knew that he belonged unto Herod's jurisdiction, he sent him to Herod, who himself also was at Jerusalem at that time.

8 And when Herod saw Jesus, he was exceeding glad: for he was desirous to see him of a long season, because he had heard many things of him; and he hoped to have seen some miracle done by him.

9 Then he questioned with him in many words; but he answered him nothing.

10 And the chief priests and scribes stood and vehemently accused him.

11 And Herod with his men of war set him at nought, and mocked him, and arrayed him in a gorgeous robe, and sent him again to Pilate.

12 And the same day Pilate and Herod were made friends together: for before they were at enmity between themselves.

13 And Pilate, when he had called together the chief priests and the rulers and the people,

14 Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:

As for the Scribes and Pharisees?
quote, In Matthew 23 Jesus pronounces “woes” on the scribes and Pharisees, the religious elite of the day. The word woe is an exclamation of grief, denunciation, or distress. This was not the first time Jesus had some harsh words for the religious leaders of His day. Why did Jesus rebuke them so harshly here? Looking at each woe gives some insight.

Before pronouncing the woes, Jesus told His listeners to respect the scribes and Pharisees due to their position of authority but not to emulate them, “for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. Everything they do is done for people to see” (Matthew 23:3–5). The scribes and Pharisees were supposed to know God and help others know Him and follow His ways. Instead, the religious leaders added to God’s Law, making it a cumbersome and onerous burden. And they did not follow God with a pure heart. Their religion was not true worship of God; rather, it was rooted in a prideful heart. Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount emphasizes the true intent of the Law over the letter of the Law. The scribes and Pharisees emphasized the letter, completely missing its spirit.

The first woe is, “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to” (Matthew 23:13). Jesus cares for people. He desires for them to know Him and to enter into His kingdom (John 3:16–17; 10:10, 17; 2 Peter 3:9). After rebuking the scribes and Pharisees, Jesus lamented over rebellious Jerusalem (Matthew 23:37–39). Clearly, His heart is for people to find life in Him. It stands to reason, then, that He would have harsh words for those who prevented people from finding salvation. The teachers of the Law and Pharisees were not truly seeking after God, though they acted as if they were. Their religion was empty, and it was preventing others from following the Messiah.

In the second woe, Jesus condemns the scribes and Pharisees for making strenuous efforts to win converts and then leading those converts to be “twice as much” children of hell as the scribes and Pharisees were (Matthew 13:15). In other words, they were more intent on spreading their religion than on maintaining the truth.

The third woe Jesus pronounces against the scribes and Pharisees calls the religious leaders “blind guides” and “blind fools” (Matthew 23:16–17). Specifically, Jesus points out, they nit-picked about which oaths were binding and which were not, ignoring the sacred nature of all oaths and significance of the temple and God’s holiness (verses 15–22).

The fourth woe calls out the scribes and Pharisees for their practice of diligently paying the tithe while neglecting to actually care for people. While they were counting their mint leaves to make sure they gave one tenth to the temple, they “neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness” (Matthew 23:23). Once again, they focused on the letter of the Law and obeyed it with pride, but they missed the weightier things of God. Their religion was external; their hearts were not transformed.

Jesus elaborates on their hypocrisy in the fifth woe. He tells the religious leaders they appear clean on the outside, but they have neglected the inside. They perform religious acts but do not have God-honoring hearts. It does no good, Jesus says, to clean up the outside when the inside is “full of greed and self-indulgence” (Matthew 23:25). The Pharisees and scribes are blind and do not recognize that, when the inside is changed, the outside, too, will be transformed.

In the sixth woe, Jesus claims the scribes and Pharisees are “like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean” (Matthew 23:27). The deadness inside of tombs is likened to the “hypocrisy and wickedness” inside the religious leaders (verse 28). Once again, they appear to obey God, but their hearts are far from Him (see Matthew 15:7–9 and Isaiah 29:13).

Jesus concludes His seven-fold rebuke by telling the religious leaders that they are just like their fathers, who persecuted the prophets of old. In building monuments to the prophets, they testify against themselves, openly admitting that it was their ancestors who killed the prophets (Matthew 23:29–31). Although they arrogantly claim that they would not have done so, they are the ones who will soon plot the murder of the Son of God Himself (Matthew 26:4).

Jesus’ words are harsh because there was so much at stake. Those who followed the Pharisees and scribes were being kept from following God. So much of the teaching in Jesus’ day was in direct contradiction of God’s Word (see Matthew 15:6). The religious leaders made a mockery out of following God. They did not truly understand God’s ways, and they led others away from God. Jesus’ desire was that people would come to know God and be reconciled with Him. In Matthew 11:28–30 Jesus said, “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” Unlike the burdens the scribes and Pharisees laid on the people in a human effort to gain reconciliation with God, Jesus gives true rest. The religious leaders spread lies covered in a veneer of godliness (John 8:44); Jesus spoke harshly against them because He came to bring life (John 10:10).

Also, the word woe carries with it a tinge of sorrow. There is an element of imprecation, to be sure, but with it an element of compassionate sadness. The seven woes that Jesus pronounces on the religious leaders are solemn declarations of future misery. The stubbornness of the sinners to whom He speaks is bringing a judgment to be feared. The scribes and Pharisees are calling down God’s wrath upon themselves, and they are to be pitied.

Immediately after Jesus’ rebuke of the scribes and Pharisees, we see Jesus’ compassion. He asks, “How will you escape being condemned to hell?” (Matthew 23:33). Jesus then expresses His desire to gather the people of Israel to Himself for safety, if only they were willing (verse 37). God longs for His people to come to Him and find forgiveness. Jesus was not harsh to be mean. He was not having a temper tantrum. Rather, love guided His actions. Jesus spoke firmly against the deception of Satan out of a desire for people to know truth and find life in Him.

15 No, nor yet Herod: for I sent you to him; and, lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him.

16 I will therefore chastise him, and release him. unquote

Best thing that comes to mind for myself? Concerning the law: the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

 

[Hyphens]

I've watched so many changes in my life. Been around almost 7 decades. I was introduced to church and the Gospel of Christ at a young age.
Christianity just about says it all to me. It is faith-based. A bit of science is based on believing. I believe what I believe, and the world calls me a bigot. I say those calling me a bigot are bigots.

I believe the world degrades the Bible so they can live and do as they please, without conscience. Morals and ethics have been polluted. I choose not to believe the ways some believe because it is against my faith in God.
I studied Bible and even the Greek writings. I have found following God's Word to be healthy, honorable, and calming.

I do not need to fight for God, but I speak for Him at times. When Christians are called bigots, I speak my heart. Some speak their hatred. God has shown me a lot, and He has given to me gifts to share when he would have me to share them.

Christianity is not about what I do, though. It is a third person faith. It is about what He did. His teachings and actions are here to stay.

This has little to do with this forum.

This has more to do with change, and how some will never change.

I think I remember learning in my history class about how the people who colonized practically everywhere and murdered the native peoples of those lands were... well... Christian. So if there really is a god, he's a massive prick, as well as the man responsible for every single evil, disgusting, vile thing in the world.

 

[pale rider]

I think I remember learning in my history class about how the people who colonized practically everywhere and murdered the native peoples of those lands were... well... Christian. So if there really is a god, he's a massive prick, as well as the man responsible for every single evil, disgusting, vile thing in the world.

They found one of those Christian missionary burial grounds on a barrier island on the East Coast of America. Seems someone against what they were sharing murdered them all and they found all their skulls underneath an old oak tree that was falling over into a river. I have walked near where that happened. Of course, some blame the Spanish that were exploring the new round world, too. Can't remember who killed them all. Missionaries and true Christians didn't murder natives: it is not in their blood.

I threw my Science book away in school after looking through it and seeing pictures of man changing into what we are today....from apes. Why are there still apes, I wonder? I would recommend watching Josey Wales and Jeremiah Johnson. Guess you studied the Civil War, too? Surely you know slavery was almost worldwide from your studies. Taxes!

Native Americans and Southerners were, at one time or another, murdered by the Government. They moved tribes to camps who they didn't murder. Surely you read about the Trail of Tears. True Christians would be more like Josey Wales and Jeremiah Johnson and try to live with them.

I also walked in old homes on a barrier island here where the rich owners had slaves. They were made to burn down their slaves' homes by the government. Why? They didn't want to leave. Look hard enough and you can find history about that. The government left them homeless with nothing.
"No lives matter until black lives matter." Is this Christian? How long will the slavery card be played?

The government just changed the name of a square in town because the man had slaves.....to a black woman's name. I am Christian, but also believe in equal rights. Tear down this. Tear down that. A lot of people are tired of the slavery card.; It is over. When does the government stop beating down the white people? We are becoming minorities. Maybe the square should have been named from an Indian tribe?

Galatians 3:28-29
King James Version

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The things you said about Christians bothers me. What you said about God?

Matthew 7:2-4
King James Version

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Galatians 5:19-21
King James Version

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

• Romans 8:7 - King James Bible
  https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org › Romans-8-7
  
  Romans 8:7 KJV: Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Murdering does not sound like the fruit of the Spirit.
Of course, none of us are perfect and without sin. Ask and ye shall receive, seek and ye shall find, knock and the door shall be opened.