Cancer. What is it and treatments.

[dogman6126]

I know. I was being contrary and not really all that serious there.

Oh, sorry. My misunderstanding

I argue that it's not really analogous to cancer because of the fact that it doesn't metastasize. Similar to how beneficial or benign gut bacteria in humans is not called cancer, and even benign growths and tumors in humans are not necessarily called cancer.

Cancer is dependent on the behavior of the growth and its ability to spread to other organs. So no, plants don't have cancer. The fact that it doesn't metastasize makes it not cancer.

The definition of cancer is (according to google):

the disease caused by an uncontrolled division of abnormal cells in a part of the body.

. From Stanford:

Cancer is an abnormal, continual multiplying of cells. The cells divide uncontrollably and may grow into adjacent tissue or spread to distant parts of the body. The mass of cancer cells will eventually become large enough to produce lumps, masses, or tumors that can be detected. These lumps, masses, or tumors can be benign or malignant

Metastasis is not a requirement for it to be called cancer. For example, a benign tumor does not metastasize, but is still called cancer.
Because plant cells can still get this property of growing uncontrollably, it is still cancer. However we would call it benign cancer.
Gut bacteria is not called cancer because the bacteria is a foreign body not a part of the human genetic code.
That's also why fungus is not cancer, its not a part of the human genetic code. It's a foreign body, even if it is needed for us to be healthy.

 

[sprinkles]

Oh, sorry. My misunderstanding


The definition of cancer is (according to google): . From Stanford: Metastasis is not a requirement for it to be called cancer. For example, a benign tumor does not metastasize, but is still called cancer.
Because plant cells can still get this property of growing uncontrollably, it is still cancer. However we would call it benign cancer.
Gut bacteria is not called cancer because the bacteria is a foreign body not a part of the human genetic code.
That's also why fungus is not cancer, its not a part of the human genetic code. It's a foreign body, even if it is needed for us to be healthy.

http://www.healthline.com/health/benign#Overview1

What are Benign Tumors?
Benign tumors are noncancerous growths in the body. Unlike cancerous tumors, they do not spread to other parts of the body.

Benign tumors can form anywhere in the body. If you discover a lump or mass in your body that can be felt from the outside, it’s normal that you might immediately assume it is cancerous. For instance, women who find lumps in their breasts during self-examinations may become alarmed. However, most breast growths are benign. And, in fact, many growths throughout the body are benign.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/benigntumors.html

Tumors are abnormal growths in your body. They are made up of extra cells. Normally, cells grow and divide to form new cells as your body needs them. When cells grow old, they die, and new cells take their place. Sometimes, this process goes wrong. New cells form when your body does not need them, and old cells do not die when they should. When these extra cells form a mass, it is called a tumor.

Tumors can be either benign or malignant. Benign tumors aren't cancer. Malignant ones are. Benign tumors grow only in one place. They cannot spread or invade other parts of your body. Even so, they can be dangerous if they press on vital organs, such as your brain.

Treatment often involves surgery. Benign tumors usually don't grow back.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/understandingcancer/cancer/page9

Depending on whether or not they can spread by invasion and metastasis, tumors are classified as being either benign or malignant. Benign tumors are tumors that cannot spread by invasion or metastasis; hence, they only grow locally. Malignant tumors are tumors that are capable of spreading by invasion and metastasis. By definition, the term "cancer" applies only to malignant tumors.

 

[dogman6126]

[MENTION=6917]sprinkles[/MENTION]
How very interesting.
If you type in medical definition of cancer, you get the definition from a medical dictionary that says:

Definition of Cancer. Cancer: An abnormal growth of cells which tend to proliferate in an uncontrolled way and, in some cases, to metastasize (spread).

This would imply that benign tumors are also cancer. That's why I had that perspective. But now that I'm looking closer, and especially at your sources, I agree with you. For the tumor to be called cancer, it must metastasize or be capable of metastasizing. Otherwise it's a benign tumor.

 

[sprinkles]

[MENTION=6917]sprinkles[/MENTION]
How very interesting.
If you type in medical definition of cancer, you get the definition from a medical dictionary that says:

This would imply that benign tumors are also cancer. That's why I had that perspective. But now that I'm looking closer, and especially at your sources, I agree with you. For the tumor to be called cancer, it must metastasize or be capable of metastasizing. Otherwise it's a benign tumor.

Mhmm, it even says so on the Stanford medical site that you might have pasted from if you continue down and read carefully.

 

[dogman6126]

Mhmm, it even says so on the Stanford medical site that you might have pasted from if you continue down and read carefully.

Lol, I went back to look again. It was in the headline of that subsection. I completely glossed over it, my mistake. I rarely read headlines because they are usually misleading. I forgot that I was reading Stanford material, those are almost always reliable, not like news articles. I skipped right to reading the bullet points about benign cancer. My mistake.

 

[muir]

@muir

Moreover if the plants aren't properly rotated, this depletes the soil of the nutrients that the plant is consuming and eventually it doesn't have enough and becomes weak, meanwhile since the plant has been grown in the same spot for so long, anything that likes to attack the plant will begin to flourish there and now has a weak plant to feast on. In this case even salvestrol won't save it because the weakened plant won't be able to keep up with the strengthened parasites - just like the human immune system.

That's why i keep talking about PERMACULTURE which is about getting the crops and animals rotating round in a way that replenishes the soil

I still think people should be focussing more on why they are happy for chemicals which have toxic signs on the outside of their containers to be poured onto their crops and water courses

Surely if a person wouldn't drink a chemical then they wouldn't want it sprayed on their food....but no....people seem cool with that....very bizarre

 

[sprinkles]

That's why i keep talking about PERMACULTURE which is about getting the crops and animals rotating round in a way that replenishes the soil

I still think people should be focussing more on why they are happy for chemicals which have toxic signs on the outside of their containers to be poured onto their crops and water courses

Surely if a person wouldn't drink a chemical then they wouldn't want it sprayed on their food....but no....people seem cool with that....very bizarre

Poor land management and growers not getting out of old ways and basically cheating to meet demand.

In the US we had the Dust Bowl in the 30s where drought combined with incorrect farming practices finally destroyed everything. They dug up the natural soil to such an extent that it took away all the natural grasses and moisture which kept it on the ground and when the drought happened, the soil dried up even more and became dust that blew away in huge dust storms that would blot out the entire sky. Over 100,000,000 acres of dust land was created and the dust storms would pile up so much that it would some times completely bury wagons and trucks, and even homes.

 

[muir]

Poor land management and growers not getting out of old ways and basically cheating to meet demand.

In the US we had the Dust Bowl in the 30s where drought combined with incorrect farming practices finally destroyed everything. They dug up the natural soil to such an extent that it took away all the natural grasses and moisture which kept it on the ground and when the drought happened, the soil dried up even more and became dust that blew away in huge dust storms that would blot out the entire sky. Over 100,000,000 acres of dust land was created and the dust storms would pile up so much that it would some times completely bury wagons and trucks, and even homes.

Yeah i've read the grapes of wrath!

Thats just anoher good reason why permaculture is the way forward!


[video=youtube;4SUPBFZ1vus]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SUPBFZ1vus[/video]

 

[muir]

[video=youtube;0tghUh4ubbg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tghUh4ubbg[/video]

 

[dogman6126]

That's why i keep talking about PERMACULTURE which is about getting the crops and animals rotating round in a way that replenishes the soil

I still think people should be focussing more on why they are happy for chemicals which have toxic signs on the outside of their containers to be poured onto their crops and water courses

Surely if a person wouldn't drink a chemical then they wouldn't want it sprayed on their food....but no....people seem cool with that....very bizarre

Erm, being from a farming community, I can tell you about corn, beans, and wheat. Don't know about the rest. I can tell you that most farmers do exactly what you are talking about. Rotation of their crops to protect soil health. All three of those plants are sprayed early in their life cycle before they have begun producing what we eat. Later on the seeds and wheat are harvested after the chemicals are mostly washed off by natural rain and natural filtration by the plant. It is absorbed, processed, and expelled by the plant long before anything you actually eat is growing. In the possibility that some chemical is still on the plant (which does happen) it is always washed off, and is always in such minute quantities that it is harmless. The main crop that is grown, that being corn, we don't even eat. It is fed to livestock and we eat the livestock or use them in some way. Beans and wheat go through a long process before they wind up in your grocery store, and I don't know that process. If there are problems with our food (of which I have seen no evidence of causation), blame the processors, not the producers. How we grow our crops is safe and efficient.

This is also not the point of this thread.

 

[Eventhorizon]

When I was younger, I actually cared about things more than I do now. Cancer is a taker, its a destroyer, it is nature at its scariest I dont give a fuck about anything moment x 10.

 

[Kgal]

The main difference between cancer and fungus is a fundamental one. Fungus is a foreign body that is disrupting/attacking the body. Kind of like bacteria. Cancer is the body itself that mutated and is disrupting normal functioning. Cancer is always in the body, but immune and genetic responses keep it under control at a single cell. Fungus is always in the body, but bacterial and immune responses keep it under control. In fact many fungi are needed for normal biological systems. But the balance you are talking about is that balance with bacteria that is normal. PH effects the body because acidity reduces immune responses. With reduced immune response, cancer can develop. With reduced immune response, fungus can also develop, however fungus has another check in place (that being bacteria) so that does not mean you will get fungus proliferation. Cancer is a threat when the mutation negates the effect of the genetic responses, and if immune response is inhibited, then cancer will spread.

The only thing that would help is to put the body back in balance to increase immune response to combat the cancer or fungus. Even then though, it likely wouldn't be effective. Fungus will continue to kill healthy bacteria, so the body's immune health will not be able to cure you of fungal infections usually. That's why foot fungus doesn't go away on its own usually. There are other far more effective ways of accomplishing fixing fungal growth like an actual fungicide. Fixing PH balance will not be effective in this manor because immune health will not restore lost bacteria. Immune health is only really good before it starts to spread. The same is true for cancer. It's more of a preventative in some cases. Some kinds of cancer are not noticed by the immune system. Those are the ones that really spread. The immune system doesn't know to attack.

....

I totally agree with you about the baking soda treatment.

But what I want to know is how to get rid of the fungus gone wild in the body. I lost a dog to fungus growing in his intestine. The vet told us there was nothing we could have done and this can even happen to humans. I've read once it takes hold there's nothing to be done about it....depending upon where it is in the body. I've read even though they may operate and remove the fungal growth - which looks like tumors - it never completely goes away - and comes back.

What fungicide will kill the fungus once it becomes systemic?

 

[Flavus Aquila]

As I understand - cancer is correlated with fungus when the body becomes out of balance in it's pH. We always have fungus cells within our body. When we get out of balance this allows the fungus to grow and eat the body. The same with cancer cells. I don't think they are the same type of cell - but they are influenced the same.

The reason why the man was using bicarbonate of soda is because it's alkaline. When the body is out of balance towards a negative pH - less than neutral of 7 - this then encourages the proliferation of either/both fungus and cancer cells.
When one introduces chemicals - either from foods or other sources - which help the body to increase the pH from less than 7 towards 7+ - this alters the environment and inhibits the growth of the fungus/cancer cells.

It is known consuming sugars and products which readily convert to sugars promote an acidic body.Coffee, beer, wine, alcohol of all forms lead to this as well. From chemistry we know some chemical reactions cannot take place when their environment is either too acidic or too alkaline. That's when the body begins to suffer.

The connection between fungi and cancer is on the level of DNA. Some fungi produce chemicals/proteins which can damage DNA, causing the mutations in single cells, which prompts incongruous growth, which is cancer.

 

[j654dgj7]

Yes, cancer is a fungus. We are lied to by doctors, scientists, drug companies, the media and every government in the world.

On an unrelated note, did you know that tears are oil? You probably don't because the oil companies have controlled your mind to think otherwise.
Heart disease isn't a thing. It's your blood reacting to the chemicals that they put in your food. Smear aloe vera cream over your joints, and you'll be fine.
Eye sight can't deteriorate, it is caused by the chemicals that they use in sex products and painkillers. Not that most people will ever know about that!
Before doctors put cyanide in our water supplies, humans were able to live forever.
Did you know that your legs are made of steel? Broken legs can be healed by melting and grinding them back into shape. Thanks for not letting the masses know, doctors!

 

[Eventhorizon]

Yes, cancer is a fungus. We are lied to by doctors, scientists, drug companies, the media and every government in the world.

On an unrelated note, did you know that tears are oil? You probably don't because the oil companies have controlled your mind to think otherwise.
Heart disease isn't a thing. It's your blood reacting to the chemicals that they put in your food. Smear aloe vera cream over your joints, and you'll be fine.
Eye sight can't deteriorate, it is caused by the chemicals that they use in sex products and painkillers. Not that most people will ever know about that!
Before doctors put cyanide in our water supplies, humans were able to live forever.
Did you know that your legs are made of steel? Broken legs can be healed by melting and grinding them back into shape. Thanks for not letting the masses know, doctors!

Errrr....what!? Documents to back up these claims? Legs of steel?

 

[dogman6126]

Errrr....what!? Documents to back up these claims? Legs of steel?

lol, Vandyke is making a point of how crazy some conspiracy theorists can be in relation to medicine.

 

[dogman6126]

The connection between fungi and cancer is on the level of DNA. Some fungi produce chemicals/proteins which can damage DNA, causing the mutations in single cells, which prompts incongruous growth, which is cancer.

The same is true for bacteria and viruses. I asked a doctor, and they said fungi are even less likely to cause cancer because fungus is such a delicate cell. Viruses and bacteria are more resilient. Therefore fungus cannot be the cause of all cancer like Dr. Simoncici claimed.

 

[dogman6126]

I totally agree with you about the baking soda treatment.

But what I want to know is how to get rid of the fungus gone wild in the body. I lost a dog to fungus growing in his intestine. The vet told us there was nothing we could have done and this can even happen to humans. I've read once it takes hold there's nothing to be done about it....depending upon where it is in the body. I've read even though they may operate and remove the fungal growth - which looks like tumors - it never completely goes away - and comes back.

What fungicide will kill the fungus once it becomes systemic?

I don't know well enough about medicine to answer your question, but I can guess that increase the number of healthy bacteria that fights that fungus, and introduce some fungicide to fight the fungus. We might not have the medicine available for dogs because their chemistry is different than ours. What we have for humans might not work for dogs in the way that grapes or chocolate is ok for us, but toxic to dogs.

I found this on a website:

Treatment for invasive/systemic candidiasis depends on a variety of factors, but will most likely involve intravenous or oral therapy with any one of the following drug classes: polyenes, azoles, and echinocandins (Kauffman 2012d). The polyene drug amphotericin B is a very common treatment, but is hindered by considerable kidney toxicity. Therefore, newer, less toxic derivatives of the drug (e.g., liposomal amphotericin B) are a better option. The high cost of these formulations, however, can be burdensome in some circumstances (Bassetti 2011; Kauffman 2010).

http://www.lef.org/protocols/infections/fungal_infections_candida_01.htm

 

[muir]

Erm, being from a farming community, I can tell you about corn, beans, and wheat. Don't know about the rest. I can tell you that most farmers do exactly what you are talking about. Rotation of their crops to protect soil health. All three of those plants are sprayed early in their life cycle before they have begun producing what we eat. Later on the seeds and wheat are harvested after the chemicals are mostly washed off by natural rain and natural filtration by the plant. It is absorbed, processed, and expelled by the plant long before anything you actually eat is growing. In the possibility that some chemical is still on the plant (which does happen) it is always washed off, and is always in such minute quantities that it is harmless. The main crop that is grown, that being corn, we don't even eat. It is fed to livestock and we eat the livestock or use them in some way. Beans and wheat go through a long process before they wind up in your grocery store, and I don't know that process. If there are problems with our food (of which I have seen no evidence of causation), blame the processors, not the producers. How we grow our crops is safe and efficient.

This is also not the point of this thread.

Rain washes chemicals off the crops into the soil where the crops roots are=double exposure to chemicals

 

[muir]

[video=youtube;wLoRFTbIakk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLoRFTbIakk[/video]