Cillian Murphy and Ni and Se

[Asa]

This video about Cillian Murphy is an interesting study of Ni and Se. At the end, he types Cillian as an ENTJ.
While I don't perceive him as an extrovert, or believe he aligns with other verified ENTJs I know, I do find the Ni and Se observations interesting.
There is a lot to discuss here about how Ni and Se present, and what Cillian's MBTI could be.

Thought it was a video that would let us discuss Ni Se and other functions and/or type Cillian. Whichever.

 

[Asa]

This is a good video for discussing how function manifests.


The other ENTJs I know, who took the test at their places of employment years ago when that was the norm, act much more assertive, like to take charge and seek out leadership roles both in work and socially, and act more outgoing and social. Socially, they steer the conversation and they are on top of it and engaged. Cillian's default is to stay quiet and think. He "zones out." He sits back and listens and he gives cut-and-dry replies. He doesn't pad those replies.


I do see his Ni thoughtfulness and desire to ponder deeper meaning and the abstract and his attraction to 'intuition.'
He also detaches self from his work and views it from the outside. Ni doms are good at detaching.
IMO, we can't argue that Ni is in his top four.

In the arts, I do think it is to people's advantage, to have Se in their top four. The way he describes situations uses Se. We must also consider his culture and training and how people in the arts (particularly writers) word experiences.

Feeling, I see both Fi and Fe. He focuses on both how the work will make others feel and how it makes him feel.

I don't see Si at all.

I understand what Wen means about Te and I see it, and notice the abundance of evidence, but I also see Ti in the way Cillian takes long pauses to ponder the questions and answers. Are those pauses Ni alone, or is it Ti? During interviews, he is consistently deep in his mind and considers his response. This is a Ti habit. Is his Te natural, or is he masking because this practical attitude is what is expected from a successful man?

 

[Wyote]

There's also something to be said about genius' being harder to type.
He's also living in an extroverted world (fame, success as you mentioned) and has learned a lot of adaptation for it.
Also, mostly all the footage being analyzed here is when Cillian is "on" and public facing.

I see the guy's point but I think he's confusing Te with being more healthy and positively oriented/connected to Se (Ni-Se maturity).
Healthy INTJs are very much this way and especially ones that have found the value in pushing themselves in that way.

It's hard to know for sure if Cillian would be a different person without the fame and world he surrounds himself with.
As well as how he is in his day to day life away from the camera.
I don't hear about him doing a lot of those wild things pushing himself, on his own time, and of his own accord though,
which makes me think INTJ vibes most likely.

Also this article is convincing toward that direction

Cillian Murphy on the Past, Present and Complicated Future of ‘Peaky Blinders’

At home in Dublin, on the eve of the ‘dark as fuck’ final series, Murphy reflects on his years as one of TV’s greatest-ever gangsters

www.esquire.com

 

[Asa]

@Wyote - That's a great interview. The biggest clue that he is an introvert was that he said he had an OK pandemic. On average, introverts who didn't get sick didn't mind the pandemic while extroverts had a harder time.

You're right about INTJs and that drive. I'm not entirely convinced that he is an INTJ. While INTJ is more likely, I'm only convinced he is an INXJ.

 

[Wyote]

The other data I'm workin with is that my partner (INTJ) doesn't like him and I do

 

[Asa]

The other data I'm workin with is that my partner (INTJ) doesn't like him and I do

Well then, he must be INFP!

 

[Wyote]

Do INTJs not like INFPs?
I didn't know that.
I just know INTJs don't like each other.
It's more of a vibe check than actual dislike though.
Once she learned more about him she liked him.

INFJ vibe - Taciturn/Esoteric
INTJ vibe - Arrogant/Eccentric

 

[Asa]

Do INTJs not like INFPs?
I didn't know that.
I just know INTJs don't like each other.
It's more of a vibe check than actual dislike though.
Once she learned more about him she liked him.

They can get along, sure, but there is often tension between the two. INTJs can seem harsh to INFPs, and INFPs can seem too emotional for INTJs.

 

[Wyote]

Makes sense, I think I do remember reading about the tensions between the two.
Any type can like any other type really, of course, just depends on the person(s).

 

[Asa]

INFJ vibe - Taciturn/Esoteric
INTJ vibe - Arrogant/Eccentric

You can watch parts of any of these and make up your mind about him, but I don't get arrogance from him at all. I've watched most of these over time because they crack me up so much, but it did make me curious about his stack because most celebrities do not behave this way -- off somewhere, thinking. He's paying attention, but he's in his head.

This one is very funny because Tommy Hardy kept letting the interviewer know he was messing up, too. Cillian was obviously annoyed, but he never got 'harsh.' He was firm, but not mean.

 

[John K]

I only have the info here to go on, and a quick flip through some film clips. My impression of Eric Wen's video is that he misses the mark. Cillian comes across to me as pretty introverted - he seems to bring the world inside himself rather than going out into it. Quite a few situations where Wen claimed Se seemed more like a reaction to it, an interpretation of it, rather than the raw function. I spent my life being one thing at work and another at home, and Cillian seemed to be doing the same, though as a great actor, with far better skill maybe LOL. Wen also missed a couple of examples of Fi, I thought.
So ... Ni? Definitely - I think the way he described being immersed in a situation is very Ni. What may be unusual is that as an actor he is able to context-shift, and so he builds a new world for each role or situation. Many Ni dominant folks don't, or can't, do that, but this will go with being an actor who can successfully carry off a diversity of acting roles. He doesn't come across to me as a dominant thinker - he is forceful in his rational judgements, but they seem to be servant to his vision.
Something that tells against INTJ is that he lacks the arrogance. It's not that he conceals it when on interview, but that there seems to be none there in the subtext of how he talks and in his body language either - he actually came over to me as a humble guy, and that's very not typical INTJ. I felt there was quite a bit of Fe in his concern for creating a good show, and his reaction to going into the cutting room - it was interpreted as Te by Wen, but it could just as easily be to do with his social values and concern for others.

So here I am, with very little evidence, creating castles in the sky because I haven't really watched many of the things he's acted in . So where have I got to - definitely I, definitely J, definitely N. I really can't decide between F and T. If I had to choose I'd go F.

(I haven't seen the videos you just posted yet Asa)

 

[Wyote]

I don't get arrogance from him at all

Oh, I do quite a bit. It's not that he's actually arrogant, it's his demeaner/vibe.
People confuse Ni thought for arrogance quite easily.
INFJs are sometimes given the "arrogant" label as well.
I've always loved the dude myself.
I think he's just an extremely healthy intelligent INTJ, which is very rare.
Definitely Ni dom though. You can tell he's a space case.

 

[Asa]

He doesn't come across to me as a dominant thinker - he is forceful in his rational judgements, but they seem to be servant to his vision.

I wondered this, and I'm happy you're bringing it up. He's very much like a poet or writer to me in that he can talk shop, but it is always going to be about the story.

I spent my life being one thing at work and another at home, and Cillian seemed to be doing the same, though as a great actor, with far better skill maybe LOL.

See, I thought discussing his stack would be a good exercise, and now it is even better because we're getting into your experiences pretending to be an ST during your career. Did that exhaust you?

Something that tells against INTJ is that he lacks the arrogance.

@Wyote disagrees, but I agree. He is confident, yes, and he doesn't want to put up with the press and their inane questions very much, but it doesn't read as arrogance to me.

In one of the clips, it shows him being very fun and funny with his guy friends, too, which may read as cocky, but they're just playing. INTJs seem more socially serious to me.

- it was interpreted as Te by Wen, but it could just as easily be to do with his social values and concern for others.

I read that 'No, I don't belong in the editing room' as Fe combined with an understanding of his skill set and role, and his respect for the editors. I could be wrong about Fe, but I agree it is not Te.

 

[Wyote]

@Wyote disagrees, but I agree.

 

[aeon]

we're getting into your experiences pretending to be an ST during your career.

Long ago, at one job they brought in external consultants to administer the MBTI as a sorting tool for the promotion track.

I played dumb, and lied straight-through to be ENTJ. I could never manage to pretend to be S.

Anyway, worked a treat, but ffs, I had quite a Fi reaction at the time, and still do in recall.

Disgusted,
Ian

 

[Asa]

Long ago, at one job they brought in external consultants to administer the MBTI as a sorting tool for the promotion track.

I played dumb, and lied straight-through to be ENTJ. I could never manage to pretend to be S.

Anyway, worked a treat, but ffs, I had quite a Fi reaction at the time, and still do in recall.

Disgusted,
Ian

Haha. That's funny. At the time, companies would offer jobs based on your results, though, so faking ENTJ was a good idea.
I'm sorry about the Fi reaction.

 

[Wyote]

I do wonder if he might be either:
INFJ enneatype 5
INTJ enneatype 4

Actually I just Googled about this and it seems some people feel the same about INFJ enneatype 5.
I do think that fits relatively well. Literally the only way he could be INFJ though.
Otherwise he's some more rare INTJ enneatype like a 4.

Also explains why @Asa and @John K aren't really questioning his INFJness at all.

 

[John K]

See, I thought discussing his stack would be a good exercise, and now it is even better because we're getting into your experiences pretending to be an ST during your career. Did that exhaust you?

Oh No! That would have been an intolerable burden - much of the time it was NT, on the border between J and P, but mainly P. All that Ti was pretty exhausting, but a lot better for me than trying to simulate Si, or (even worse) Se. Mind you, having a good integrated internal feel for the structure of things as they actually are was pretty important too, and that's getting close to Si. There was some ISTJ in the admin stuff that goes with being a manager and having to deal with budgets and performance appraisals and the like, but in a project oriented technical department there's plenty of vision and person context in these to carry you through it. Quite honestly though, I think our second half of life development depends very much on exploring our non-core functions and I value these experiences very highly.

But it's very tiring to sustain yourself in a type that isn't your own for extended periods. I think I'd have had a much harder time of it if I and my wife hadn't both been introverted types.

@Wyote disagrees, but I agree. He is confident, yes, and he doesn't want to put up with the press and their inane questions very much, but it doesn't read as arrogance to me.

In one of the clips, it shows him being very fun and funny with his guy friends, too, which may read as cocky, but they're just playing. INTJs seem more socially serious to me.

I really couldn't make a hard choice between T and F. It's very difficult with actors who can shape shift because it can be a well crafted persona that we are seeing for the camera. Some actors just play themselves and they're easy, but I get the impression he's good at playing different types. I usually come across INTJs who exude certitude from their public face though, and he's not like that. But I've seen so little of him really, so this is only based on what's here.

 

[John K]

I do wonder if he might be either:
INFJ enneatype 5
INTJ enneatype 4

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Perhaps 5W4 or 4W5 - both sound plausible and not necessarily easy to differentiate. He certainly doesn't come over as INFJ E2!

 

[Asa]

I do wonder if he might be either:
INFJ enneatype 5
INTJ enneatype 4

Actually I just Googled about this and it seems some people feel the same about INFJ enneatype 5.
I do think that fits relatively well. Literally the only way he could be INFJ though.
Otherwise he's some more rare INTJ enneatype like a 4.

Also explains why @Asa and @John K aren't really questioning his INFJness at all.

I think you're on to something. This makes me want to deep dive into the differences between INFJ 5 and INTJ 4. There are differences, but there is overlap.

LOL. John and I are both INFJ 5x4 and both married to INTJs. There are pros and cons to trying to type someone so close to the bone. You are only one step away from this because of you're 954 enneagram, but that 9 is valuable here.