Closing a Thread: Warning! Graphic picture

ezra said:
It was never a debate. It's not a debate if I claim to know your birthday better than you, or your home address. It was hate-speech versus reality. Besides, like @sprinkles said, the thread hasn't been deleted. Opinions were shared, hate was spewed. Should we have kept going around in circles?

My best friend is gay, and he's always known. If you claim that he's living a wrongful existence, or that he's confused, I will not go silent. Keep your hate out of his life, or we're going to have a problem.
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Oh, my. Why is it always "hate" with some of you folk?
 
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It seems WE ALL have certain undeniable traits we could work on.
 
ezra said:
Silence is obedience.
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I agree in the case of oppressive powers but not in a situation like this. You are not obeying any of the posters in this forum. They have no power over you. Sometimes the most powerful commentary is silence, because you are saying that the message is not worth replying to. People on forums are here because they want to be heard. If you do not acknowledge their words you take away their perceived power.
 
La Sagna said:
I agree in the case of oppressive powers but not in a situation like this. You are not obeying any of the posters in this forum. They have no power over you. Sometimes the most powerful commentary is silence, because you are saying that the message is not worth replying to. People on forums are here because they want to be heard. If you do not acknowledge their words you take away their perceived power.
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If one person does it and nobody complains, what's to stop 100 more people from doing it because they see that nobody complains? Or 100,000? Or a million?

This is important because people take pieces of their worldview from everywhere. We do not know what impressionable minds are looking here and we don't know who is being taught what if we let things slide.

People have a tendency to emulate examples and get encouraged by what they see others do. How do you think society gets its norms? A lot of things come to be accepted over time simply because nobody complains and it seems like it's "always been that way".

Silence is tantamount to approval and this is why speaking out is important.
 
Jacobi said:
I respect that viewpoint, but really, how many bigots will be changed by a polite interchange of ideas. If I believe that all black people are evil and a mistake of nature, it's unlikely I'm capable of accepting a logical point of view.

Amad has shown as clear as he possibly can, his intolerance and hate for homosexuality and transexuality. Something he's probably harbored for years and likely was brought up with. Suggesting that you can just guide him into enlightenment, that you can overwrite years of rigid misguided thinking may be overestimating your power of persuasion.
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First, you cannot remove a belief with logic. You can only alter or ensure consistency in a system of beliefs using logic. Example: Logic cannot prove that a god does not exist but it can show inconsistency in the assumptions a person makes about who God is and what he thinks.

What moves people to change their opinions and beliefs are the impressions they get from circumstance and people. A near death experience is a common example of how 'non-logic' can alter a person in ways that could never be reasoned into them. Everyone leaves impressions on other people and on this forum we are leaving impressions on way more people than the people we are directing our posts to. I don't expect a sudden change of heart but I do believe that our impressions have some effect over time.

Mostly though, you would have a hard time change someone you do not understand. From what you wrote I can tell you do not understand him. I used to be like him. I used to think/feel the way he does but I was changed. I was not changed by the people who opposed me, rejected me, grew angry at me or called me bigot etc... I was changed by people who understood me and gently guided me. I was changed by people like Dragon who put himself/herself in an uncomfortable position and showed a strong patience in guiding me to understanding of transgenders instead of being disgusted and casting me out for having an opinion that is believed to be hateful.

Keep in mind that Amad did not attack anyone on this forum. He only stated his opinion. Many found his opinion to be distasteful but I would rather praise his honesty and see it as on opportunity to be real with him, than to take his opinion as a personal affront or a valid judgment to who 'I' am or what I believe.



Jacobi said:
Amad has shown as clear as he possibly can, his intolerance and hate for homosexuality and transexuality. Something he's probably harbored for years and likely was brought up with. Suggesting that you can just guide him into enlightenment, that you can overwrite years of rigid misguided thinking may be overestimating your power of persuasion.
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I never suggested this was about me persuading anyone. In fact, I suggested this was about everyone here. I think there is potential in everybody here and I think a lot can be done with the right mindset. In fact, some individuals here have already shown their ability to persuade with an understanding and patient attitude. Dragon has altered my perception of transgender already. That does not stop at me either. His strength moves on through the others I interact with as well.

Lastly, I do not think 'direct' opposition offers anything but more opposition. I never said "do not appose", "do not criticize", and "do not speak out against" but i see a difference between direct/aggressive opposition and reasonable opposition.
 
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[MENTION=9860]Grayman[/MENTION]

Bad ideas are infectious. This was not about changing him - this was about inoculation.

It is not cool to just hang out and be "real" with everyone when they may be going around and doing actual damage with their ideas.
 
sprinkles said:
If one person does it and nobody complains, what's to stop 100 more people from doing it because they see that nobody complains? Or 100,000? Or a million?

This is important because people take pieces of their worldview from everywhere. We do not know what impressionable minds are looking here and we don't know who is being taught what if we let things slide.

People have a tendency to emulate examples and get encouraged by what they see others do. How do you think society gets its norms? A lot of things come to be accepted over time simply because nobody complains and it seems like it's "always been that way".

Silence is tantamount to approval and this is why speaking out is important.
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I am not advocating being silent in every case (even in most cases), but can you not see how this thread is only bringing attention to somebody who is looking for exactly that and I haven't seen any posts that is likely to be enlightening anybody. There are useful places to speak and try to get the right messages and information out. I just don't think this thread is achieving that at all.

By the way, there are many threads that we all choose to ignore and not posting has nothing to do with approving of anything. If every thread that I don't post on is interpreted as approval then I would need to spend a lot more time on here to make sure that people know exactly what I think of everything. Some things are just best ignored and then they sort of disappear because nobody is paying attention to them.
 
La Sagna said:
I am not advocating being silent in every case (even in most cases), but can you not see how this thread is only bringing attention to somebody who is looking for exactly that and I haven't seen any posts that is likely to be enlightening anybody. There are useful places to speak and try to get the right messages and information out. I just don't think this thread is achieving that at all.
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I'm not talking about this thread. I'm talking about the thread that caused this thread.

By the way, there are many threads that we all choose to ignore and not posting has nothing to do with approving of anything. If every thread that I don't post on is interpreted as approval then I would need to spend a lot more time on here to make sure that people know exactly what I think of everything. Some things are just best ignored and then they sort of disappear because nobody is paying attention to them.
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What I'm talking about is so not one of those things.
 
All I hear is more reasons why that thread shouldn't be closed so that all of us who are disgusted by his rhetoric are allowed an opportunity to voice that disgust, disapprove, disagree, and give sound reasoning as to why it is flawed, incorrect, inconsistent, and misleading. I hear no sound reasoning as to why it should be automatically closed except for the reason I initially gave which is that the administrators can close any threads they please at their sole discretion.

Closing the thread doesn't really give you that opportunity, but merely expresses that you cannot properly cope with such hurtful ideologies. That alone is fair reasoning for the administrators to close the thread in my opinion, but doesn't seem as productive.
 
Matt3737 said:
All I hear is more reasons why that thread shouldn't be closed so that all of us who are disgusted by his rhetoric are allowed an opportunity to voice that disgust, disapprove, disagree, and give sound reasoning as to why it is flawed, incorrect, inconsistent, and misleading. I hear no sound reasoning as to why it should be automatically closed except for the reason I initially gave which is that the administrators can close any threads they please at their sole discretion.

Closing the thread doesn't really give you that opportunity, but merely expresses that you cannot properly cope with such hurtful ideologies. That alone is fair reasoning for the administrators to close the thread in my opinion, but doesn't seem as productive.
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Repeating the same things doesn't make them be more right. It just makes people be more annoyed.
 
sprinkles said:
Repeating the same things doesn't make them be more right. It just makes people be more annoyed.
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Same to you. Explain to me why I'm wrong, please.
 
sprinkles said:
That was in regards to the content of the thread we're discussing.
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Oh well shit, if annoyance is the best reason to close threads then muir should be annihilating this whole damn forum.
 
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