Combating Apathy and Hypocrisy

[Arg]

I can't posit a solution but here is a good summarization of why things are the way they are and why they'll continue to be so.

"My guess is that well over eighty per cent of the human race goes through life without ever having a single original thought. That is to say, they never think anything that has not been thought before, and by thousands. A society made up of individuals who were all capable of original thought would probably be unendurable. The pressure of ideas would simply drive it frantic. The normal human society is very little troubled by them. Whenever a new one appears the average man displays signs of dismay and resentment, The only way he can take in such a new idea is by translating it crudely into terms of more familiar ideas. That translation is one of the chief functions of politicians, not to mention journalists. They devote themselves largely to debasing the ideas launched by their betters. This debasement is intellectually reprehensible, but probably necessary to carry on the business of the world."

HL Mencken

 

[Shai Gar]

Nothing, except that it does nothing for the good of mankind.

You know what's good for mankind? Genocide.
You know what's good for gardens? Culling.

Just because something is good for mankind, doesn't mean people will agree with it.

 

[BenW]

NTs tend to be the most highly productive of all the types.

Really now?
I'm lazy as all fuck.

I mean, as far as general work/employment, I am.
If I could get a job doing something that I enjoyed and which captivated my interest, I could understand your statement.

 

[the]

Where I live people are getting friendlier every day. I wave to people I dont know, meet people I didnt know previously, and have fun pretty much all the time. Crime never affects me or my friends and everyones employed who wants to be and everyone goes to school and can afford it who wants to.


Flavius it sounds like you are describing crotchety old men, maybe you are just getting older.

 

[Shai Gar]

Really now?
I'm lazy as all fuck.

I mean, as far as general work/employment, I am.
If I could get a job doing something that I enjoyed and which captivated my interest, I could understand your statement.

I'm a lazy cunt too.
I think though he's right... If we radically rewrite the definition to getting shit done in order to move forward.

Productive SJ - Doing a shitload of stuff that keeps us in the same spot forever.
Productive NT - Doing one or two things in a year, that advances us into the future.

 

[muir]

apathy

One explanation might be that we are living under the ideaology of consumerism at the moment.

Adam Curtis's documentary 'The Century of the Self' (in 3 parts on google videos) describes how during the second world war, the US government ran the biggest psychological research program ever seen to evaluate why most of the soldiers returning from combat did so due to psychological problems instead of injuries. They believed Freud's theory that we all have underlying aggressive urges in our subconscious, that we constantly battle to control. The power elites became concerned that these primal forces might become unleashed on a large scale like they did in Nazi Germany, so they decided that the best way of keeping mass democracy docile was to make the public materialistic, by creating wants in the public and then supplying the goods to satisfy the wants. Many people now confuse wants with needs.

Consumerism has had limited success in pacifying the public. The problem with a relativist world is that we have lost any meaning from our lives. Many people now feel a sense of dissatisfaction and apathy, but aren't always sure why they are feeling such things. These feelings are reflected in a rise in mental health problems and voter apathy as people lose faith that anything can change for the better.

The power elites then countered this response by medicating large parts of the public and by scareing the public with stories in the media about disasters waiting to happen. These tactics have kept the public towing the line a bit longer, whilst the power elites, have accumulated more of the wealth.

That all sounds really gloomy! I do however believe that positive change is possible and that most people are basically decent, despite the best attempts of the power elites to turn us into cynical, self interested consumers. I guess we can become drones with flatlining emotions or we can find new ways to assert our humanity, find meaning in life and cooperate with others.

The first step has to be understanding what the problem is. I think, from my own limited resources, that the issues above are a big factor.

 

[Gaze]

Nagging seems intrusive when people do it to me, but when someone shows they care (without nagging) it makes a difference.

Yeah, I agree.

Nagging sometimes makes someone feel more self-conscious, so it's not always the kick someone needs.

 

[lostintranslation]

One explanation might be that we are living under the ideaology of consumerism at the moment.

Adam Curtis's documentary 'The Century of the Self' (in 3 parts on google videos) describes how during the second world war, the US government ran the biggest psychological research program ever seen to evaluate why most of the soldiers returning from combat did so due to psychological problems instead of injuries. They believed Freud's theory that we all have underlying aggressive urges in our subconscious, that we constantly battle to control. The power elites became concerned that these primal forces might become unleashed on a large scale like they did in Nazi Germany, so they decided that the best way of keeping mass democracy docile was to make the public materialistic, by creating wants in the public and then supplying the goods to satisfy the wants. Many people now confuse wants with needs.

Consumerism has had limited success in pacifying the public. The problem with a relativist world is that we have lost any meaning from our lives. Many people now feel a sense of dissatisfaction and apathy, but aren't always sure why they are feeling such things. These feelings are reflected in a rise in mental health problems and voter apathy as people lose faith that anything can change for the better.

The power elites then countered this response by medicating large parts of the public and by scareing the public with stories in the media about disasters waiting to happen. These tactics have kept the public towing the line a bit longer, whilst the power elites, have accumulated more of the wealth.

That all sounds really gloomy! I do however believe that positive change is possible and that most people are basically decent, despite the best attempts of the power elites to turn us into cynical, self interested consumers. I guess we can become drones with flatlining emotions or we can find new ways to assert our humanity, find meaning in life and cooperate with others.

The first step has to be understanding what the problem is. I think, from my own limited resources, that the issues above are a big factor.

CoTS was a very interesting documentary. Some of the points A.C. made in that series are reiterated in his other 3-part series 'The Trap : What Happened to Our Dream of Freedom', which also talks about the rise of apathy due the generalization of human beings as 'robotic, calculated beings' by politicians, among other things.

As such, apathy is the natural sign that there isn't effective leadership around.

Partly this and partly that it is human nature

 

[NeverAmI]

OHY MY GOD I LOVE THESE FORUMS!!!

I absolutely loved the Century of the Self. Edward Bernays and the way he founded public relations was astounding to me. I remember when I was a child, commercials depressed me because they seemed so fake and full of lies. NO ONE is that sincere about such trivial things, and if they are, they are modest about it!

Apathy by definition is emotion, not action. I find that people are apathetic because they hear the same crap, day after day, after day, after day. You become desensitized to it! I personally never watch the news, I don't read the newspaper, I don't watch hardly any TV. How can we even know how apathetic your surroundings were 50 years ago? All we have to go by are other peoples' perceptions! We all know how absolutely biased any sort of media can be.

The whole concept of materialism is the creation, almost worship, of false idols that distract people from standing up and doing the right things, at least in my opinion. There are few who see through the BS and fewer yet who stand up and do something about it. The next question is what type of action do you take? I personally try to make others more aware, but this is a hard concept because my perception is so extreme compared to others around me. I can give gentle tidbits and nudges of information, and hope that they bite. A lot of times I hope that person will at some point reflect back, if they don't bite, and perhaps eventually take a deeper look. There is SO MUCH in the world to be concerned with, it is impossible not to be apathetic to some situations.

I am not a hypocrite, I am dynamic! When the context changes, my perception/actions change with it. If the context never changes, neither do my actions!

 

[muir]

Apathy by definition is emotion, not action. I find that people are apathetic because they hear the same crap, day after day, after day, after day. You become desensitized to it!

The whole concept of materialism is the creation, almost worship, of false idols that distract people from standing up and doing the right things, at least in my opinion. There are few who see through the BS and fewer yet who stand up and do something about it. The next question is what type of action do you take? I personally try to make others more aware, but this is a hard concept because my perception is so extreme compared to others around me. I can give gentle tidbits and nudges of information, and hope that they bite. A lot of times I hope that person will at some point reflect back, if they don't bite, and perhaps eventually take a deeper look. There is SO MUCH in the world to be concerned with, it is impossible not to be apathetic to some situations.

Distraction is definately one of the strategies used by the power elites. People aren't going to be questioning the racket the powerful are running if they are busy being razzle-dazzled by something new and shiny! I think the way to overcome this is to value other things more than material things. Not difficult really when you look at how hollow materialism is.

Engineered ignorance is another powerful strategy used by the power elites. I keep learning things which i feel really should have been taught to me by the education system. One of the key things required for a democracy to work is an informed electorate. If however the electorate are kept ignorant then they will be even more pliable by the media and open to propaganda. The internet is a great tool that can be used to overcome this.

Desensitisation is another strategy. They don't want people to believe that things can be better. If people believe that positive change is possible then they will inevitably work to bring it about, which would then disempower the powerful. A socialist friend of mine once said 'we must refuse to become cynical'; i think that is a good counter strategy.

 

[NeverAmI]

Muir I agree 100%

Your quote from your socialist friend is interesting. I believe I am VERY cynical an have been for a long time, but my cynicism is focused on society in general, not individuals. I think I am still blessed enough to see the potential for good in the world and in people.

 

[muir]

CoTS was a very interesting documentary. Some of the points A.C. made in that series are reiterated in his other 3-part series 'The Trap : What Happened to Our Dream of Freedom', which also talks about the rise of apathy due the generalization of human beings as 'robotic, calculated beings' by politicians, among other things.

Partly this and partly that it is human nature

I thought the Trap was excellent. I think A.C has really gone to the heart of some of the key issues society is facing today.

 

[NeverAmI]

CoTS was a very interesting documentary. Some of the points A.C. made in that series are reiterated in his other 3-part series 'The Trap : What Happened to Our Dream of Freedom', which also talks about the rise of apathy due the generalization of human beings as 'robotic, calculated beings' by politicians, among other things.

Partly this and partly that it is human nature

I haven't seen said documentary. THANK YOU!

 

[muir]

Muir I agree 100%

Your quote from your socialist friend is interesting. I believe I am VERY cynical an have been for a long time, but my cynicism is focused on society in general, not individuals. I think I am still blessed enough to see the potential for good in the world and in people.

The context in which he said this was a discussion about human nature. He made the point that we see acts of kindness and generosity from people everyday even when they have nothing to gain from it. He's right.

The media keeps showing us the worst of human nature, which can be demoralizing. Like you i am wary about what media i take in because of the clear agenda behind a lot of it. Culture is changeable though.

 

[NeverAmI]

The context in which he said this was a discussion about human nature. He made the point that we see acts of kindness and generosity from people everyday even when they have nothing to gain from it. He's right.

The media keeps showing us the worst of human nature, which can be demoralizing. Like you i am wary about what media i take in because of the clear agenda behind a lot of it. Culture is changeable though.

Wonderful point!

 

[Barnabas]

Apathy and hypocrisy are some of the few things that actually fill me with anger. And if I ever find myself in those things it usually ends in me being severely depressed until I've righted my wrongs.

 

[Solar Empath]

The whole concept of materialism is the creation, almost worship, of false idols that distract people from standing up and doing the right things, at least in my opinion. There are few who see through the BS and fewer yet who stand up and do something about it.

I so much agree. Maybe it's because I have lost too many people in my life (divorce and 3 dead family members in the last 6 years). This makes me want to scream at people. When your loved ones are in their coffins and you are staring down at their corpses, what are you going to say?

"Oh thank GOD he spent all of his time making money! His career was #1 to him! I'm so glad I had a successful husband! That made him worth something!"

Money is a tool. Success at making and spending money is a useful skill, like making wheels. Making it the purpose of your life is meaningless. Money should be an enhancement only, not the center of life.

The Media makes Wealth (The dead have no money) Youth (Get older or die young) Fame (The dead don't hang out with fans) Beauty (Get older or die young again) the meaning of life. And people are apathetic. Well, yeah! This crap means nothing in the end. Money in this manner is a socially acceptable drug. You get high, you feel good, and then you need more.

Most people aren't really like that. But they try to be, because TeeVee says that's what matters. And it's killing their souls. Being a materialistic, sex crazed, hairless monkey kills your soul. Kills it dead.

I prefer to be a person that loves family and believes that his mind and heart rules and not his 'subconscious drives'. I won't kill my soul on the altar of the Money Monkey.

Also

/endrant ... for now.

 

[DoveAlexa]

The Media makes Wealth (The dead have no money) Youth (Get older or die young) Fame (The dead don't hang out with fans) Beauty (Get older or die young again) the meaning of life. And people are apathetic. Well, yeah! This crap means nothing in the end. Money in this manner is a socially acceptable drug. You get high, you feel good, and then you need more.

Most people aren't really like that. But they try to be, because TeeVee says that's what matters. And it's killing their souls. Being a materialistic, sex crazed, hairless monkey kills your soul. Kills it dead.

When I do find these people in real life, I'm usually scared stiff. These people represent everything I fear about what we as a species are turning into. We seem to be devaluing thought more and more. Whats worse is I fear those lost we can't ever get back.

Brings to mind the underlying theme of some (if not all) zombie flicks. Deals with what do we do when the world is filled with greedy soulless people in endless unstoppable hordes.

Oh, and hi. I'm new.

 

[TinyBubbles]

What do people here do to get loved ones / people you care about out of total apathy about their lives?.. and maybe start doing something about things instead of just bitching about them?

complaining can be a catalyst for change, don't underestimate it complain enough, and people take notice. or at least know when to avoid you, lol.

what do i do to motivate people out of apathy? argue with them. i try to push them out of their comfort zone, try to get them to admit their mistakes and inattentiveness~ doesn't always work, obviously, but sometimes it has the pleasant effect of letting us both know where they stand on the issue - if there is any real drive behind the complaining to lead to something more substantial, or if it's just a time killer. if it's the former, we can usually work something out after having argued about it. partially this is why i'm not adverse to conflict, it can often clear the ambiguity about a problem.

 

[meander]

Money is a tool. Success at making and spending money is a useful skill, like making wheels. Making it the purpose of your life is meaningless. Money should be an enhancement only, not the center of life.

I second this. There is a saying: 'Money is a excellent servant but a miserable master.' Maybe this is the reason we seem to live in miserable times.

My apathy comes from me feeling powerless, not being able to 'save' the world or doing sth useful to help saving the world/people. I combat it every day. I still don't like hypocrisy in others and myself, but I know where it comes from and i try to show 'mercy'. Maybe it's the little things, smiling at someone and such. Often I feel that most people don't want to be smiled at. It stops their agressiveness and this seems to make them more aggressive somehow. I think most people are angry or want to feel angry nowadays. Most never get through to the real reason for this, instead look for a 'punching bag', it's like proxy war: I witnessed some conflicts during the last weeks in our neighbourhood and while random neighbours seem to get riled up on seemingly trivial things I think I know there is some different reason behind it, they just don't see it. How could I make them seeing it?