Could gender roles be biological?

[Lurker]

It isn't your place to correct an opinion - something I am by rights entitled to - when it is what the topic creator asked for.

It was a definition on the terminology gender roles (as per my link) from Wiki. I wasn’t ‘correcting’ your opinion, I was showing your example of birth is not related to gender roles.

 

[Satya]

something I am by rights entitled to - when it is what the topic creator asked for.

Actually, I asked whether people felt gender roles are biological, not about how people feel about transsexuals. From your uneducated and combative discourse through this thread up until now, I frankly don't care about your opinion on either.

 

[FC3S]

Actually, I asked whether people felt gender roles are biological, not about how people feel about transsexuals. From your uneducated and combative discourse through this thread up until now, I frankly don't care about your opinion on either.

I don't make a distinction. You asked for an opinion you got it. Whether you care about it is immaterial.

 

[Shai Gar]

what's the science of whether a person turns into a male? I know we're all born female with our clitoris turning into a penis if something happens, but what is that something that happens?

Temperature like reptiles?
additional hormones? from where?

 

[Satya]

My personal belief when it comes to this subject is that like most things, gender roles are a combination of nature and nurture. As was well explained by TLM and abygail, there are biological differences, however, how those differences are manifested in the environment is largely, but not completely, a result of socialization within their specific culture.

For example, in American culture we constantly have conflicts between a gender's capabilities and its culturally assigned gender roles. Women who took part in fighter jet training easily outperformed men due to their higher dexterity which allowed them greater joystick mobility and their extra layer of body fat which allowed them to sustain higher Gs than their male counterparts. However, the Air Force decided rather than allow women to excel as fighter pilots from their biological advantage, to instead reclassify the position as a "combat position" thereby keeping women out of the pilot's seat altogether.

To lack an ability to discern a biological capability from a culturally assigned role is far from irrelavant when it results in an individual not being allowed to succeed at what they naturally do best.

 

[Satya]

what's the science of whether a person turns into a male? I know we're all born female with our clitoris turning into a penis if something happens, but what is that something that happens?

Temperature like reptiles?
additional hormones? from where?

Chromosomes in part. The genetics of the male sperm determines whether an embryo will be male or female. Hormones from the mother then determine what sexual organs develop. Approximately 1% of every child is born intersex, that is, with a certain degree of both sexual organs.

 

[Shai Gar]

Women who took part in fighter jet training easily outperformed men due to their higher dexterity which allowed them greater joystick mobility and their extra layer of body fat which allowed them to sustain higher Gs than their male counterparts. However, the Air Force decided rather than allow women to excel as fighter pilots from their biological advantage, to instead reclassify the position as a "combat position" thereby keeping women out of the pilot's seat altogether.

That's actually the best possible thing for first world enemies of america. All they need to do is have the same level of training and air force, and put women in the fighter pilots seat.

 

[Shai Gar]

Chromosomes in part. The genetics of the male sperm determines whether an embryo will be male or female. Hormones from the mother then determine what sexual organs develop. Approximately 1% of every child is born intersex, that is, with a certain degree of both sexual organs.

It has to be FAR FAR less than one percent, else I'd have learnt about it in primary school, if not before.

 

[Satya]

It has to be FAR FAR less than one percent, else I'd have learnt about it in primary school, if not before.

You are right. Correction:

“Intersexuals” = people born with some degree of both male and female genitals or reproductive organs.
Highest estimates = .2% = 12.8 million
Lowest estimates = .018% = 1.2 million

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[/FONT]I don't think I first heard about people being born intersex until I was in college. But it is actually not uncommon. In some cases, doctors have to wait a few weeks for the newborn to grow before they can make the distinction or are even requited to do a genetic test.

 

[FC3S]

My personal belief when it comes to this subject is that like most things, gender roles are a combination of nature and nurture. As was well explained by TLM and abygail, there are biological differences, however, how those differences are manifested in the environment is largely, but not completely, a result of socialization within their specific culture.

For example, in American culture we constantly have conflicts between a gender's capabilities and its culturally assigned gender roles. Women who took part in fighter jet training easily outperformed men due to their higher dexterity which allowed them greater joystick mobility and their extra layer of body fat which allowed them to sustain higher Gs than their male counterparts. However, the Air Force decided rather than allow women to excel as fighter pilots from their biological advantage, to instead reclassify the position as a "combat position" thereby keeping women out of the pilot's seat altogether.

To lack an ability to discern a biological capability from a culturally assigned role is far from irrelavant when it results in an individual not being allowed to succeed at what they naturally do best.

Unless of course a person makes a choice contrary to what they naturally do best. Choices have consequences, backing out is a cowards route.

 

[Satya]

Unless of course a person makes a choice contrary to what they naturally do best. Choices have consequences, backing out is a cowards route.

I have absolutely no idea what relevance that has to the discussion. Care to fill us in?

 

[FC3S]

I have absolutely no idea what relevance that has to the discussion. Care to fill us in?

No thanks. I'll stick to using my club over a scalpel.

 

[Satya]

No thanks. I'll stick to using my club over a scalpel.

Um....oooookay.

 

[Morpheus]

I'd say it's partially biological and partially enviromental. There are behaviour patterns in our genes, but over time they have been, by societies, strenghtened into traditions that can't be challenged without consequences.