Dealing with workplace gossip -- as a manager?

muir said:
I'll save you the trouble of looking back....here's your derailing post

Before this i had contributed to this thread seriously and productively, which is more than you had
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That wasn't a derailment, you just don't get what I meant, of which I'm not surprised.

Edit: Also I love how you bang on about some ridiculous conspiracy theory surrounding that particular photo and yet completely miss the actual conspiracy which makes said photo so interesting.
 
88chaz88 said:
That wasn't a derailment, you just don't get what I meant, of which I'm not surprised.
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I know exactly what you meant

Stalin had people erased from photos he was in

here's the reality:

There are many posts on this forum complaining about how the world is or seeking to find out why the world is the way it is

Here is what ex British Prime minister Benjamin Disraeli had to say about it: ''The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes''

So what i do is discuss who those personages are and what their agenda is

If people want to exercise their right to ignorance then that is their choice, but their choice will have implications for them and everyone else; this is because ignorance is what enables those personages to do what they do.

Have you been following the news recently? MP's expenses scandal, News of the world phone hacking scandle, Bankers rigging the LIBOR interest rates scandal, racism in the police scandal, jimmy saville and other high up politicians involved in the Haute de la garenne childrens home scandal, declassified info showing government lied over vaccines, GM food causing cancer in rats, Uk government and MI5 involved in rendition flights and torture, HSBC involved in drug money laundering and arms dealing, big pharma being fined for bribing doctors to give patients drugs that don't work etc etc

new stories are coming out every week at the moment that are proving what many of us have been saying all along.....this stuff is the hard evidence now coming out in the wash and all this criminal behaviour has been able to happen because the public have been IGNORANT of what is going on

This is then the problem....we are all part of this 'democratic' system. If we are ignorant then we cannot particiapte effectively and this then enables the criminal behaviour

The criminal behaviour will continue for as long as people do not get informed and take responsibility for their society

I even see this as related to the content of this thread because the buiness model that the elites apply to every aspect of our society always creates the same workplace problems and will continue to create the same workplace problems until people wake up to what it is that's causing all the problems
 
muir said:
I know exactly what you meant

Stalin had people erased from photos he was in

here's the reality:

There are many posts on this forum complaining about how the world is or seeking to find out why the world is the way it is

Here is what ex British Prime minister Benjamin Disraeli had to say about it: ''The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes''

So what i do is discuss who those personages are and what their agenda is

If people want to exercise their right to ignorance then that is their choice, but their choice will have implications for them and everyone else; this is because ignorance is what enables those personages to do what they do.

Have you been following the news recently? MP's expenses scandal, News of the world phone hacking scandle, Bankers rigging the LIBOR interest rates scandal, racism in the police scandal, jimmy saville and other high up politicians involved in the Haute de la garenne childrens home scandal, declassified info showing government lied over vaccines, GM food causing cancer in rats, Uk government and MI5 involved in rendition flights and torture, HSBC involved in drug money laundering and arms dealing, big pharma being fined for bribing doctors to give patients drugs that don't work etc etc

new stories are coming out every week at the moment that are proving what many of us have been saying all along.....this stuff is the hard evidence now coming out in the wash and all this criminal behaviour has been able to happen because the public have been IGNORANT of what is going on

This is then the problem....we are all part of this 'democratic' system. If we are ignorant then we cannot particiapte effectively and this then enables the criminal behaviour

The criminal behaviour will continue for as long as people do not get informed and take responsibility for their society

I even see this as related to the content of this thread because the buiness model that the elites apply to every aspect of our society always creates the same workplace problems and will continue to create the same workplace problems until people wake up to what it is that's causing all the problems
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There's no such thing as a topic to you is there.
 
muir said:
I just see past the surface
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Actually what you do is use any subject brought up to use as an excuse to go on a tangent attempting to show off any knowledge or connections that you know of. In the end you're not trying to prove that these conspiracies or factoids exist, you're constantly trying to show that you know them and others don't. You're trying to prove yourself better than everyone else.

Lots of people do this, myself included, but with you it's a bloody obsession.
 
88chaz88 said:
Actually what you do is use any subject brought up to use as an excuse to go on a tangent attempting to show off any knowledge or connections that you know of. In the end you're not trying to prove that these conspiracies or factoids exist, you're constantly trying to show that you know them and others don't. You're trying to prove yourself better than everyone else.

Lots of people do this, myself included, but with you it's a bloody obsession.
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No and you are still putting up barriers by trying to deflect onto me

My life has been a series of changing perceptions. This process is ongoing

I came to this forum to learn about MBTI but i learned a lot more besides. For example i'm talking to an introverted sensor right now and that experience all feeds into my intuition to build a more complete picture

My perceptions have evolved to the point where i am seeing a very different picture to the one i saw 5 years ago. I know from experience that the process will continue and i will see another picture in another 5 years

I also can see that society as a whole is going through a shift in perceptions. I've been around longer than you and have seen more of a shift occur over my life span. This shift is monumental and i believe that it is largely due to the internet. this is why the elites are seeking to control the internet because it is a game changer and they know it!

So throughout my personal development i have sought answers and i have discussed and debated with many people. This has helped me gain a greater understanding of what is going on and as a result of how i can engage with it better. This is very important to INFJ's and you can hear other INFJ's discussing this in a range of ways elsewhere on this forum....because we have to live in accordance with our values, we need to know what is really going on to know whether or not our potential actions will be in accordance with our values or not

I've had people take sledgehammers to my perceptions and although it was sometimes a jarring experience, afterwards with reflection i have always been grateful for it because once i have assimilated the new perception it has broadened my understanding

I think that this point right now in our history is a critical point. This is because two things are happening. One is that the public are waking up to what is going on and two the elites are desperately trying to put a totalitarian surveillance state into place to better deal with the trouble that they are anticipating from the people (its already started see all the riots and protests)

So we're all here putting our input into the discussions and everyones perceptions are at different stages.

I'm putting out views that often counterbalance views already in threads that i see as distorting peoples perceptions away from the truth of what is going on. This might even be what INFJ's are meant to do...it might be their role in society

So all you have to decide is not whether you like me or not, but whether or not you can take anything of value from what i'm saying
 
muir said:
No and you are still putting up barriers by trying to deflect onto me

My life has been a series of changing perceptions. This process is ongoing

I came to this forum to learn about MBTI but i learned a lot more besides. For example i'm talking to an introverted sensor right now and that experience all feeds into my intuition to build a more complete picture

My perceptions have evolved to the point where i am seeing a very different picture to the one i saw 5 years ago. I know from experience that the process will continue and i will see another picture in another 5 years

I also can see that society as a whole is going through a shift in perceptions. I've been around longer than you and have seen more of a shift occur over my life span. This shift is monumental and i believe that it is largely due to the internet. this is why the elites are seeking to control the internet because it is a game changer and they know it!

So throughout my personal development i have sought answers and i have discussed and debated with many people. This has helped me gain a greater understanding of what is going on and as a result of how i can engage with it better. This is very important to INFJ's and you can hear other INFJ's discussing this in a range of ways elsewhere on this forum....because we have to live in accordance with our values, we need to know what is really going on to know whether or not our potential actions will be in accordance with our values or not

I've had people take sledgehammers to my perceptions and although it was sometimes a jarring experience, afterwards with reflection i have always been grateful for it because once i have assimilated the new perception it has broadened my understanding

I think that this point right now in our history is a critical point. This is because two things are happening. One is that the public are waking up to what is going on and two the elites are desperately trying to put a totalitarian surveillance state into place to better deal with the trouble that they are anticipating from the people (its already started see all the riots and protests)

So we're all here putting our input into the discussions and everyones perceptions are at different stages.

I'm putting out views that often counterbalance views already in threads that i see as distorting peoples perceptions away from the truth of what is going on. This might even be what INFJ's are meant to do...it might be their role in society

So all you have to decide is not whether you like me or not, but whether or not you can take anything of value from what i'm saying
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I can't keep up the pretense that I actually read anything you say. You've bored me that much.
 
88chaz88 said:
I can't keep up the pretense that I actually read anything you say. You've bored me that much.
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Bored huh?.....ok whatever
 
88chaz88 said:
Why do you think I've been responding to you?
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Because you got personal and by doing so got yourself locked into a battle of wills

And with each pause in between posts you've been sitting thinking of what you can say to try and hurt me

I see this a lot. people deviate from the issue and get personal. I think maybe some people are looking to connect with people rather than expand their consciousness. its just a shame that the connection is often a negative one

Personally i'm not as intersted in the social side, i'm more interested in the issues. They might bore you but they fascinate me. I like to learn and share what i've learned
 
muir said:
Because you got personal and by doing so got yourself locked into a battle of wills

And with each pause in between posts you've been sitting thinking of what you can say to try and hurt me

I see this a lot. people deviate from the issue and get personal. I think maybe some people are looking to connect with people rather than expand their consciousness. its just a shame that the connection is often a negative one

Personally i'm not as intersted in the social side, i'm more interested in the issues. They might bore you but they fascinate me. I like to learn and share what i've learned
Click to expand...

This is a pretty pathetic battle of wills. As for deviating from issues, it's only because you're making up issues on the spot.
 
88chaz88 said:
This is a pretty pathetic battle of wills. As for deviating from issues, it's only because you're making up issues on the spot.
Click to expand...

I'd like to offer a view on that but it might bore you :p

Here's how i see it...

I feel that the current system is engineered down to the last brick. Everything has thought behind it as to why it is designed the way it is designed.

I also feel that many people are not really happy in this system. i think that it is only through the process of coming to a realisation that the system is at fault that people can then really engage with it in a way that allows then to maintain their integrity. it is also a healthy step in my opinion for people to realise that the feelings they ahve are not their fault but rather the fault of a sick system

So many people are pulled off balance by trying to keep aligned with a system tht is imbalanced. look at all the poverty, look at all the war, look at all anxiety people are experiencing.

Are we really trying to say that things are how they should be?

It was a big step in my life when i stopped trying to align with it; things improved for me a lot.

yes i criticise the system relentlessly and yes sometimes i feel frustrated at the wider situation but its because i think that many of the things discussed here are symptoms of the system

I don't believe that the system just organically grew i believe that it has been engineered...each aspect has been designed with specific purpose

The hierarchical business model apllied whether it is to a small family run shop or to a multi-national corporation has been designed and is sold to new generations of students at business school every year. The design is one that justifies the engineers position at the top of our society and it allows them to continue shaping our world of poverty, war and anxiety

That is THE ISSUE in my opinion
 
muir said:
I'd like to offer a view on that but it might bore you :p

Here's how i see it...

I feel that the current system is engineered down to the last brick. Everything has thought behind it as to why it is designed the way it is designed.

I also feel that many people are not really happy in this system. i think that it is only through the process of coming to a realisation that the system is at fault that people can then really engage with it in a way that allows then to maintain their integrity. it is also a healthy step in my opinion for people to realise that the feelings they ahve are not their fault but rather the fault of a sick system

So many people are pulled off balance by trying to keep aligned with a system tht is imbalanced. look at all the poverty, look at all the war, look at all anxiety people are experiencing.

Are we really trying to say that things are how they should be?

It was a big step in my life when i stopped trying to align with it; things improved for me a lot.

yes i criticise the system relentlessly and yes sometimes i feel frustrated at the wider situation but its because i think that many of the things discussed here are symptoms of the system

I don't believe that the system just organically grew i believe that it has been engineered...each aspect has been designed with specific purpose

The hierarchical business model apllied whether it is to a small family run shop or to a multi-national corporation has been designed and is sold to new generations of students at business school every year. The design is one that justifies the engineers position at the top of our society and it allows them to continue shaping our world of poverty, war and anxiety

That is THE ISSUE in my opinion
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The fuck are you on about now?
 
88chaz88 said:
The fuck are you on about now?
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The same stuff...its all interelated

I think we'd both agree that we have now gone from what was a small aside conversation to a pretty major shift from the OP's discussion

Perhaps seeing as the OP's thread was about something personal and not something theoretical the sensitive thing to do would be to take this converstaion somewhere else and to leave this thread to get back to the OP's intended subject matter?
 
*scratches head*

muir, that's one page of at best, vaguely related, deeply inherent value-based problem to this...well, considerably practical issue.

I have no problems with digression; I have no problems with talking about deeper issues at play, or the faults of the system under whatever reason.
However, I'm thinking whatever reason or whatever truth you have in those wall of texts, you're derailing this thread into yet another stab towards the capitalist culture and the societies that may or may not control them behind.... and that is utter tangential digression of vagueness, at best; or just plain tactless, at worst.

Chaz' baiting doesn't help.

I'm not angry or outraged by the digression, but other people may not be so forgiving next time.
Yes, please. Stop.
 
Trifoilum said:
*scratches head*

muir, that's one page of at best, vaguely related, deeply inherent value-based problem to this...well, considerably practical issue.

I'm thinking whatever reason or whatever truth you have in those wall of texts, you're derailing the thread into another stab towards the capitalist culture and the societies that -may- control them behind.... and that is utter tangential digression of vagueness, at best; or just plain tactless, at worst.

Please, stop.
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Don't you think you are closing the stable door after the horse has bolted?

I just said in the post before yours that the discussion had become inappropriate and should be moved somewhere else
 
Yes, and it has been updated appropriately.

:|
 
Chaz and my discussion was between us, sorry it has been carried out in your thread; this is not the place for that discussion but i'm sure you can see how it snow balled!
 
...Update.
Opening musing : I'm just glad she's at least honest with her tone. I'm pretty sure she's sugarcoating the underlying emotions under the cover of 'work performance', however it's nothing but my own hypothesis. The latter's not my business, though?

It seemed the guillotine is about to be used.
The upper management-- my sister.... She just doesn't like the ENFJ worker. Fullstop. She ignored the work performance and focused with the ENFJ's effect to the workplace, "you're all relying upon [the worker]!"

In a way, she's scapegoating the ENFJ worker.

Question : I'm sure she's within her rights to fire someone under any reason...but what does it say about her as a person, firing someone that she just doesn't like?
Musing : Which, I understand that lack of compatibility in business can mean a lot of things, relating to working styles, work performance, effect to work culture.. But how much of it were HR language?

Question #2 : Separate the fact that I am related by blood. Do I have any rights to oppose?
Musing : Then there is the way she weaved the arguments; by putting me into the guilty party, I'm feeling she's preemptively blocking any opposition by 'you just didn't want to be bothered yourself'

Question #3 : ....Is there anything I can do? Seriously I'm feeling uncomfortable with this. Why would someone be fired because the boss doesn't like them? Why? Well I know it happens and I know why, but to cut a good worker....
Musing : My status are visible but powerless; I got a feeling that regardless of the effect, doing anything entails using the rights as a de jure 'co-owner'...something that actually has no power. And I believe my sister knows it. Yet that status still hung above me, especially from the worker's perspective.

I got a feeling to know the answer, I ought to tell my views on this (thus exposing me on her arguments). And especially my own perspective regarding the worker.
 
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