Dilemma: Let be or be principled

[Elegant Winter]

Haha, no that's just me. I make a dozen elaborate plans each week. Only a fraction survives a day. And even if the intention sticks for a while, I might not actually execute it.
It's like I'm some slow law-making government. Hearing experts, advisor and committees. Making new suggestions and amendments. Passing it through parliaments.
At least all the social stuff goes like that. I like all the planning and don't mind that I plan things I never do. I do mind that I hardly do anything, even though the plans seemed so promising. I'm (possibly too) risk-averse.

I don't think I'm going to follow through on this, seeing the reactions here. Maybe if she does it again, I see a confirmation of the continuation of their relationship and I see a good opportunity to mention it. Those are unlikely odds.

I feel defeated though. The warrior against evil is hold back. Is cheating considered to be morally grey? I thought it was morally black.
Aren't we as westerners incredibly involved with meddling with the lives of people around the world? Feeding them with our morals and values.
Does your church send missionaries? Do you support Amnesty International or some other worldwide charity (that doesn't just provide food/health/shelter)?
And going really extreme, do you think we should leave the islamic state alone?

Is it because I'm interfering with personal space like relationships?
I'd consider the western perspective on a culture where a husband can beat his wife to also interfere with the personal space.
Am I targeting a specific person or case, instead of trying to address the broader issue in a general manner?
Well, it would be weird to condemn it in general and let it be in a specific case.

Where lies our disagreement? Did I oversimplify in one of the above arguments? Did I miss something?
I want to understand YOUR perspectives, so that I can learn them and consider them in the future if I come across a similar dilemma.

This is about loyalty, not morality. She hasn't done anything wrong but break a commitment to her partner. And her commitments are her business. Not yours. Morality doesn't even apply to this situation. And your principles certainly don't apply to this situation.

 

[barbad0s]

Also I think you should think about what it is about cheating that you believe is morally wrong and what it is exactly that you want to change about the world. Even if you make her regret her actions or force her into a situation of negative karma, she won't necessarily change or feel differently about herself on an ethical standards level. So all you are doing is stirring up shit. At most you may save some random stranger a bit of grief (and even that is negligible), but beyond that you can't say you contributed anything morally upstanding or necessarily educational to the world. The means have to actually be in alignment with the end.

If you actually care about making a positive change because you feel strongly about this value, then you should have a private conversation with this girl and tell her about why you believe her actions are wrong and that you have been moved enough by them in a negative way that you are tempted to look her boyfriend up on Facebook and tell him. Try to empathize with her to understand why she might have done it so that she will be comfortable with an open discussion about morality and the sensitive material of her personal relationships. If you can't even empathize with someone or tolerate them then you have no right to think its realistic to force your ideals onto them.

 

[invisible]

its so sad when people dont care about honoring the agreements they have with others. but i think you should get on with your own exciting life and forget about this. as other people have said on the thread it is not your relationship, and you hardly know the girl anyway, she can ask her friends if she wants relationship advice. also it wastes too much time and energy to get involved with other peoples little dramas - you could be learning a language, playing video games, or cooking a souffle in the time you take to interfere in her choices.

 

[Erlian]

I think it is interesting that you are seeking out the mobs approval when it comes to staying true to your principles. It's usually the opposite, and I find that refreshing. Is it still your principle or did you change values thanks in part to peer pressure?. Are you sure you are intj?

Well, that's what I try to find an answer to. Why do my values differ from those of my peers?
Am I like most INTJs? No, not at all. Am I like the INTJ more than like any other type? Yeah I think so.
Like INTJs I have a strong opinion on something quickly and am very convinced that I'm right (and mostly I am), except I realise that I might not be.
Because I really really don't want to be wrong I thoroughly and actively test my opinions and beliefs with others. And because I do this I'm even more convinced of whatever beliefs passed my tests.

No you would not. Trust me I've pranked enough INTJ with said scenarios. You simply cry wolf until you are blue in the face.

Nah, I'm not like those INTJs. A friend with psychology master said I was the only one she knew that actually liked being critiqued. Or told the truth, however harsh.
Being critqued allows me to improve. If I improve I'm a better person.
I might certainly cry, not because you told me, but because of what you told me. I never shoot the messenger. If it turns out to be a prank, then I'll shoot the messenger

You are just jealous that you aren't that second guy sharing her bed. That is what this is all about.

It might play a subconscious role, but I feel that my aversion to dishonesty is the main motivator. At this point I certainly wouldn't share her bed.

Now seeing as you are hell bent on confronting and hooking up with this supposed 'slut' this random stranger demands praise in the form of pics of said fraternizing escapades in particular a 'golden' shower if you will.

I wouldn't need proof. The proof would be that she admitted it to me in a conversation. He can confront her and she wouldn't deny.
I don't actually know for a fact that she cheated, but I know enough facts to make him believe me. If you check my plan in the OP, you can see that I first need to accertain that she actually cheated. This is done by confronting her.

 

[Erlian]

This is about loyalty, not morality. She hasn't done anything wrong but break a commitment to her partner. And her commitments are her business. Not yours. Morality doesn't even apply to this situation. And your principles certainly don't apply to this situation.

I think morality does apply, but I guess that's where we think different.

Also I think you should think about what it is about cheating that you believe is morally wrong and what it is exactly that you want to change about the world.

I know what it is. It's lying. Dishonesty. Betraying. He trusts her. I want people to believe that honesty is important in relationships (if not simply everywhere in life), even if they're not to last.

If you actually care about making a positive change because you feel strongly about this value, then you should have a private conversation with this girl and tell her about why you believe her actions are wrong and that you have been moved enough by them in a negative way that you are tempted to look her boyfriend up on Facebook and tell him. Try to empathize with her to understand why she might have done it so that she will be comfortable with an open discussion about morality and the sensitive material of her personal relationships. If you can't even empathize with someone or tolerate them then you have no right to think its realistic to force your ideals onto them.

I don't fully understand why she did it, but I can imagine a million understandable reasons and I don't blame her for what is done. I just think she should tell him now. I understand why she doesn't. The private conversation was the plan all along. Try to convince her to tell him herself, if she doesn't maybe even threaten to tell him myself. But yeah, it's much less confrontational to say that I felt the urge to at first.

Even if you make her regret her actions or force her into a situation of negative karma, she won't necessarily change or feel differently about herself on an ethical standards level. So all you are doing is stirring up shit. At most you may save some random stranger a bit of grief (and even that is negligible), but beyond that you can't say you contributed anything morally upstanding or necessarily educational to the world. The means have to actually be in alignment with the end.

I don't think stirring shit up is bad. If the toilet is clogged badly, you gotta stir so it can flush through and be cleaned.
I'd rather stir it up right away, experience a really bad smell and clean it than to use a partially functioning toilet and see layers of shit building up eventually causing a shitstorm. I know that most people prefer to postpone triggering the bad smell, even if it means the smell will be worse.

 

[Erlian]

its so sad when people dont care about honoring the agreements they have with others. but i think you should get on with your own exciting life and forget about this. as other people have said on the thread it is not your relationship, and you hardly know the girl anyway, she can ask her friends if she wants relationship advice. also it wastes too much time and energy to get involved with other peoples little dramas - you could be learning a language, playing video games, or cooking a souffle in the time you take to interfere in her choices.

Actually interfering doesn't take much time. Discussing it here takes a lot of time though and I enjoy it. Especially because I was wrong and thus have learned something new.

 

[Dohavior]

I wouldn't need proof.

Before the summer is over you two are going to be knocking boots I can already see it coming. She has you whipped. xD

 

[Erlian]

Before the summer is over you two are going to be knocking boots I can already see it coming. She has you whipped. xD

Give me a date. I'll note it in my agenda. By that date I'll send you a pm whether you were right or wrong.

 

[Matt3737]

If I was being cheated on, I would shower in praise a random stranger that brings it to light.

No, you wouldn't because you didn't ask them to stalk your girlfriend in the first place like some obsessive creeper.

There is a lot of information that is really vague in this situation that is important. How and why do you seem to know these things that you say you know? Are you two friends, acquaintances, or complete strangers? How you came across this information sets the whole context for why (in all likelihood why you should not) act upon it and what your motivations are for doing so.

You seem taken by this girl if you are thinking so much about her regardless of this situation. If you really want to get involved, I'd highly (highly) recommend doing so in a different manner and not pursuing this any further. Just talk to her person to person and do not bring this up to her unless there's a more legitimate reason to do so (such as if you decide to pursue a relationship with her).

 

[Erlian]

You seem taken by this girl if you are thinking so much about her regardless of this situation.

What makes you believe that?

She's an acquaintance.
I fully agree with your recommendation. The point is that I do not wish to get involved (in the sense that you used it).

 

[Matt3737]

What makes you believe that?

She's an acquaintance.
I fully agree with your recommendation. The point is that I do not wish to get involved (in the sense that you used it).

The fact that you were mulling the idea around of potentially getting involved in her personal life. That you took note of her and her relationships with other people for another. How do you know she has a boyfriend? Did she tell you about this despite being only acquaintances? What if it was her brother? Did you witness them being intimate with each other, i.e. kissing/public affectations? How do you know the other guy she was supposedly sleeping with wasn't her brother or a gay friend (I'm assuming you think this because he spent the night)?

There is a lot of speculation which indicates you are thinking about her and her relationships (a lot). You say that you are concerned about the other guy, but that doesn't really add up because you've been taking note of all these things previous to even knowing the guy or really knowing the girl. You know nothing about these people, yet seem to really want to become invested in their personal relationships.

 

[Erlian]

The fact that you were mulling the idea around of potentially getting involved in her personal life. That you took note of her and her relationships with other people for another. How do you know she has a boyfriend? Did she tell you about this despite being only acquaintances? What if it was her brother? Did you witness them being intimate with each other, i.e. kissing/public affectations? How do you know the other guy she was supposedly sleeping with wasn't her brother or a gay friend (I'm assuming you think this because he spent the night)?

There is a lot of speculation which indicates you are thinking about her and her relationships (a lot). You say that you are concerned about the other guy, but that doesn't really add up because you've been taking note of all these things previous to even knowing the guy or really knowing the girl. You know nothing about these people, yet seem to really want to become invested in their personal relationships.

Read my original post. I answered most of your questions there.
It wasn't her brother because they acted intimate (when we were together in the kitchen) and because she introduced him as her boyfriend.
Yes, the other guy spent the night and they were a bit touchy when they came in the kitchen shortly when I was having late night dinner.
I don't know for a fact that they actually did more than just enjoy each others company, maybe they just watched a movie or something. I saw the guy leave at 10 in the morning (I was awake and normally have my door open). As I mentioned in the original post, I would first accertain that she actually cheated. See step 2 and 3.

The fact that I've taken note of their relationship is because I saw both almost daily for two weeks, not because of my interest. Her door is right opposite mine.
I've taken up much to some interest for other girls here in my exchange period, but not this one.

I don't know much about either and have not a lot of interest in getting to know them better. I do have interest in trying to convince her to be honest with him, because I (obsessively?) value honesty. You have a point concerning my concern for the boyfriend. I don't care much for him, because I don't know him. Still, doing this would help him and that's a benefit worth mentioning (although in the end it turns out that not everyone sees it that way).

 

[Matt3737]

Read my original post. I answered most of your questions there.
It wasn't her brother because they acted intimate (when we were together in the kitchen) and because she introduced him as her boyfriend.
Yes, the other guy spent the night and they were a bit touchy when they came in the kitchen shortly when I was having late night dinner.
I don't know for a fact that they actually did more than just enjoy each others company, maybe they just watched a movie or something. I saw the guy leave at 10 in the morning (I was awake and normally have my door open). As I mentioned in the original post, I would first accertain that she actually cheated. See step 2 and 3.

The fact that I've taken note of their relationship is because I saw both almost daily for two weeks, not because of my interest. Her door is right opposite mine.
I've taken up much to some interest for other girls here in my exchange period, but not this one.

I don't know much about either and have not a lot of interest in getting to know them better. I do have interest in trying to convince her to be honest with him, because I (obsessively?) value honesty. You have a point concerning my concern for the boyfriend. I don't care much for him, because I don't know him. Still, doing this would help him and that's a benefit worth mentioning (although in the end it turns out that not everyone sees it that way).

I did read your original post at least twice trying to ascertain how you know what you know so as to get a clearer picture of the context. So no, these questions were not apparent in the original post. Your post here clears up a good deal of these questions. This makes it seem much more reasonable taken into context.

There is some slight confusion between whether or not you have an interest in them, but it seems understandable. I don't know why you'd value honesty to such an extent as to want to impose it upon nearly complete strangers, but that may just be a problem with your own ideals.

I don't think you'd be benefitting him, nor do I believe you know for sure what the situation is. Someone earlier mentioned that they could be in an open relationship. The idea of benefitting someone else can be a contentious ideal at times. As the Chinese proverb goes, "Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime."

I think it a very bad idea to get involved, but you do as you feel you must. If what you think is true, then the boyfriend will have to learn this for himself. If you feel you must get involved and things do not go as you hoped they would, then you will also learn this for yourself. If things do go as you hope then the truth will come out, but less will be gained from this.

 

[just me]

Find a new room away from her.....out of range. It is my guess you will notice something there, too.

 

[Peppermint]

It seems like you are approaching this from a place of your own personal insecurity.

You are not actually sure if the girl has cheated on him with the other guy. You just know he slept in her room, but you don't have any further details. So, she could be cheating, or you could be misconstruing the situation because of your bias. What is likely to happen if you do let her boyfriend know about it is that he won't believe you, unless he is preoccupied with the idea of being cheated on. You're after all just a stranger with questionable motives. In fact, you could end up getting burnt by pissing off both of them.

 

[Erlian]

Find a new room away from her.....out of range. It is my guess you will notice something there, too.

I have considered the option, but more because everyone in my part of the hallway is incredibly boring. They are really solitary.
This girl is the only one who actually uses the kitchen (out of 6), but she still eats alone on her room.
I have no reason to get away from her. The question was whether I'd care or not. Seems I'm not going to care.

It seems like you are approaching this from a place of your own personal insecurity.

You are not actually sure if the girl has cheated on him with the other guy. You just know he slept in her room, but you don't have any further details. So, she could be cheating, or you could be misconstruing the situation because of your bias. What is likely to happen if you do let her boyfriend know about it is that he won't believe you, unless he is preoccupied with the idea of being cheated on. You're after all just a stranger with questionable motives. In fact, you could end up getting burnt by pissing off both of them.

If I tell the boyfriend that she admitted to cheating, I'm pretty sure he'll believe something.
When I'd threaten her and she says she'll deny it if he asks, then obviously I'm not going to tell him. That'd be really pointless. They'd both just simply despise me.