Discussing the Quantum Brain (Orch OR) - Penrose and Hameroff

[TomasM]

This thread is dedicated to the exploration and discussion of how the brain / mind function with respect to scientific discovery as it relates to Orch OR and complimenting science. The authors of this theory have suggested a tie to consciousness and as such it can create subjective ideas. The discussion could extend beyond the brain if the science extends to other areas of the body or the body as a whole. Opinions are welcome as long as it maintains a relationship with the science. Wikipedia: Orchestrated Objective Reduction (Orch OR), Roger Penrose, Stuart Hameroff

 

[TomasM]

Orchestrated Objective Reduction​

Orchestrated Objective Reduction (Orch OR) is a theoretical framework proposing that consciousness originates at the quantum level within neurons, specifically in microtubules, rather than being a product of neural connections. This theory, developed by Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff, attempts to bridge the gap between physics, neuroscience, and psychology.

Key Components:

1. Microtubules: Cylindrical protein lattices in the cell cytoskeleton within brain neurons, where quantum superposition and computation occur.
2. Quantum Superposition: Microtubules exist in a superposition of states, allowing for multiple possibilities to coexist.
3. Orchestrated Quantum Computation: Microtubules’ quantum states are correlated and computed collectively, influencing neuronal activity and behavior.
4. Objective Reduction (OR): A physical, objective phenomenon, akin to gravity, that collapses the quantum superposition, terminating the computation and producing a conscious moment.
5. Penrose’s Quantum Gravity Threshold: Instability in Planck-scale separations in spacetime geometry triggers OR, influencing the collapse of the wavefunction.

Implications:

1. Consciousness as a Quantum Process: Orch OR posits that consciousness arises from orchestrated quantum computations in microtubules, rather than being an emergent property of neural activity.
2. Quantum Computing in the Brain: Microtubules’ quantum capabilities enable the brain to process information in a fundamentally different way than classical computers.
3. Objective Reduction and Collapse: The OR process, driven by gravity, ensures that conscious experience is a real, physical phenomenon, rather than an illusion or ghostly projection.

 

[TomasM]

January 23, 2024​

Brain as a Quantum System: Theory Gets New Traction​

Summary:​

1. Do Quantum Phenomena Create Conscious Experience?
2. Quantum Processing in Bird Brains - bird’s internal compass includes radicals with an “odd, unpaired electron”

3. Other Research
a) Trinity College in Dublin did experiments that suggest our brains do quantum computation
b) Brody, Professor of Mathematics at the University of Surrey, hopes that quantum processes can shed light on human behavior
c) Use of anesthetics on brain organoids (lumps of brain tissue grown in a medium) are making it easier to test the theory.

Picture below: brain organoids (lumps of brain tissue grown in a medium)

 

[TomasM]

Penrose and Hameroff have both referenced the Schrodinger's cat, the collapse of the wave function, and superpositions. I'm adding a video to help explain these ideas to help get your brain juices going. I vetted the videos on YT and the one I chose is both educational and entertaining. He also explains how this concept might expand to people every day. Watching this could make you start thinking about other options that might exists outside of what was discussed.

 

[TomasM]

New Study Demonstrates a Connection Between Microtubles and Consciousness

​

New research led by Wellesley College professor Mike Wiest and his undergraduate team provides experimental support for the quantum theory of consciousness, focusing on how anesthesia interacts with the brain. The study found that rats given a microtubule-binding drug took significantly longer to lose consciousness under anesthesia, suggesting that anesthetics act on microtubules to induce unconsciousness. Wiest argues that these findings support a quantum rather than classical model of consciousness, with far-reaching implications for understanding not only anesthesia but also conditions like coma, mood disorders, and neurodegenerative diseases. This research, published in eNeuro, could reshape our conception of consciousness and its relation to the universe.

eNeuro Publication
Publication Date: 15 August 2024

 

[TomasM]

Microtubules Relation to Orch OR

Most all of the research and focus associated with Orch OR (Orchestrated Objective Reduction) is related to microtubules within neuron cells [in the brain]; however these tiny structures have many functions throughout the body. The main functions of microtubules in the human body are listed below with signal transmission [and the corresponding quantum consciousness effects] being the primary focus of Orch OR. Image Left: Microtubule in a neuron dendrite Image Below: Neuron cell structure

MICROTUBULE FUNCTIONS

1. Signal Transmission: Microtubules are involved in signal transduction processes within cells, playing a role in how cells respond to external stimuli.
2. Structural Support: Microtubules provide structural integrity to cells, helping maintain cell shape and resist compression. They act as a scaffold that organizes the cell’s internal structure.
3. Intracellular Transport: Microtubules serve as tracks for the movement of organelles, vesicles, and other cargo within the cell. Motor proteins such as kinesins and dyneins move along microtubules to transport materials throughout the cytoplasm.
4. Cell Division: During mitosis and meiosis, microtubules form the mitotic spindle, which is essential for the separation of chromosomes into daughter cells. The spindle fibers attach to the chromosomes and pull them apart to opposite poles of the cell.
5. Cell Motility: Microtubules are key components of cilia and flagella, structures that allow cell movement. In cells like sperm (which use flagella for propulsion) or cells lining the respiratory tract (which use cilia to move mucus), microtubules enable the beating or waving of these structures.
6. Maintenance of Organelle Position: Microtubules help maintain the positioning of organelles like the endoplasmic reticulum and Golgi apparatus within the cell by anchoring them to specific locations.

Demonstration of Microtubules with respect to Neurons

Signal Transmission - I looked for a good video on signal transmission and though this one isn't fully related to electric transmission and quantum effects, it does discuss it and the quantum effects related to Orch OR.

Transport - Fascinating how these mechanical proteins move along the external surface of the neuron microtubules.

 

[TomasM]

ELECTRONIC ENERGY MIGRATION IN MICROTUBULES

​

The 2023 research on Electronic Energy Migration in Microtubules explores the potential for electronic energy transfer along microtubules, key components of the cytoskeleton in eukaryotic cells. Microtubules are hollow cylinders composed of tubulin proteins, and their structural and dynamic properties play a crucial role in cellular functions like division, intracellular transport, and signaling. This study investigates whether microtubules can also support the migration of electronic energy, a process that might influence cellular processes on a quantum level.

The researchers employed theoretical and computational models to analyze how electronic energy could propagate through the microtubule network. The study draws on the idea that microtubules could act as quantum channels, facilitating energy transfer in a manner akin to molecular wires. The findings suggest that microtubules may have unique electronic properties that could affect biological functions like signal transduction. The research points to a potential intersection between quantum biology and cellular dynamics, raising intriguing questions about the role of quantum phenomena in biological systems.



Synopsis:
In a microtubule, electronic energy can migrate over distances that conventional Förster theory cannot sufficiently explain. Anesthetics etomidate and isoflurane decrease energy migration.

Note: Keep in mind that this is a study and not an experiment. They are proposing, through the analysis of several scientific understandings and computer models, that microtubules could be a method for electronic energy transfer. The study references 70 publications.

ACS Publication
Publication date: 12 January 2023

 

[TomasM]

Orch OR Relation To Theories of Consciousness In The Universe

"Three general possibilities regarding the origin and place of consciousness in the universe have been commonly expressed... 1. Science, with consciousness as an essential ingredient of physical laws not yet fully understood 2. Science/Materialism, with consciousness having no distinctive role 3. Dualism/Spirituality, with consciousness (etc.) being outside science"

Of these origins Orch OR focuses on the first possibility where consciousness is an essential ingredient of physical laws. Consciousness arises from discrete physical events that have always existed in the universe as non-cognitive, proto-conscious phenomena governed by precise but not yet fully understood physical laws. Biology evolved a system to coordinate these events with neural activity, leading to cognitive and conscious experiences, which in turn influence behavior. These events are proposed as quantum state reductions, or quantum "self-measurements." While this idea may not fit current scientific theories, it should eventually be explainable. This view, rooted in A.N. Whitehead's philosophy, is scientifically developed in the Penrose-Hameroff theory of orchestrated objective reduction (Orch OR), where consciousness emerges from quantum computations in brain microtubules, suggesting it is an intrinsic aspect of the universe.

Source

 

[TomasM]

"Organizing and Disorganizing Resonances of Microtubules..
Calculated by a.. "Toroidal" Quantum Equation of Coherence"
December 2022

Microtubules and proteins exhibit spatial coherence, a typical arrangement of atoms essential for functions like growth, maintenance, and cell death. They form a self-organizing structure called a Fröhlich-Bose-Einstein state, described by a toroidal quantum equation of coherence. This state features discrete frequency patterns governed by quantum wave equations of coherence (entanglement) and decoherence (disentanglement). The model aligns with previous theories and demonstrates scale-invariant energy distributions. A meta-analysis identifies around 50 organizing and 5 disorganizing microtubule frequencies matching the proposed quantum equations, suggesting a quantum code that governs biological order. This supports theories by Tuszynski, Hameroff, and others on quantum biology in cellular systems.

Yes, they are saying THz (Tera Hertz frequencies). That 1 Trillion Hertz. ​

Opinion: I have been considering the idea of the toroid design as a universal theory for everything for quite some time. This is the first time I've seen it potentially referenced in relation to microtubules and a correlation to consciousness. We can see this toroid shape with respect to energy flow at the planetary, star, and galaxy structures. It now appears to be working at the cellular level.

Though we don't currently see it introduced at the atomic scale, there are hypothetical theories where a subatomic black hole could exist at the center of an atom - yet it would have to be extremely small to the point where scientific observation would unlikely be able to observe it. I suggest this primarily because the current life of an atom is calculated to be 10^32 years and the energy required to make that happen has to come from somewhere. I believe it comes from a higher energy state that wiggles it's way through a higher dimension to ours through these perforations (black holes).

Source

 

[TomasM]

Consciousness, Cognition and the Neuronal Cytoskeleton
A New Paradigm Needed in Neuroscience

Mainstream neuroscience and philosophy typically describe the brain as a computational network of neurons, following the Hodgkin-Huxley model of “integrate-and-fire” activities. However, this approach inadequately explains consciousness, cognition, and intelligent behavior in simpler organisms that lack neurons but use their cytoskeleton to sense and act. The brain-as-computer model, which reduces brain function to synaptic activity and membrane potentials, fails to capture the deeper complexities of life and consciousness, which may arise from quantum coherence, as suggested by Hameroff, Penrose, and Schrödinger.

A new paradigm is proposed, centering on quantum and classical information processing in microtubules within neurons, particularly in cortical Layer V pyramidal neurons. These neurons are part of a large-scale 2D grid across the cortex, integrating sensory input and generating motor control. Their mixed polarity microtubules facilitate quantum interference, and their deviation from standard computational models could signal a deeper role in consciousness. The Orch OR theory posits that these quantum processes regulate neuron firing, linking consciousness to behavior in a non-computable way.

​

The theory also suggests that consciousness and life originate from quantum dipole oscillations within proteins, forming a scale-invariant hierarchy of quantum coherence that spans from molecular vibrations to larger cognitive processes. This paradigm shift has significant medical implications, particularly in treating conditions like Alzheimer's, traumatic brain injury, and depression, which involve cytoskeletal dysfunctions. Future therapies might target the cytoskeleton directly, using technologies like low-intensity transcranial ultrasound to modulate microtubule activity.

Ultimately, this new model positions the brain not as a computational device but as a quantum-holographic system, capable of orchestrating consciousness and behavior through quantum processes within the neuronal cytoskeleton.

Source
15 June 2022

 

[TomasM]

It cuts two ways: microtubule loss during Alzheimer disease
27 September 2013

In this article, published in The EMBO journal, it is demonstrated how the breakdown of a specific protein result in the disassembly of microtubules and results in the the disfunction of cognitive ability. At the same time there is another protein which builds-up in the neuron and impedes the functioning of the microtubules network. This further demonstrates the link between consciousness and microtubules suggested by the ORCH OR theory.

Microtubule loss from axons and dendrites is a key contributor to nervous system degeneration during Alzheimer disease. Previous evidence suggested a simple pathway by which tau dissociation from microtubules in the axon allows excess severing of microtubules by katanin. Now, new evidence has emerged for a more complex pathway by which abnormal tau invasion into dendrites, triggered by Aβ oligomers, results in excess severing of microtubules by spastin.

Source