Do INFJs like sex?

[Bird]

no more gross than eating, sleeping and other bodily functions imho.

And for the op - yes I do. Even if it's under less than perfect circumstances.

My additional observation from this thread and other encounters is that INFJs unnecessary idealize sexual relationships too much. Consequently they often run into trouble with getting / maintaining those relationships. And then start to deceive themselves: if I don't get sex that means I am saving myself for someone special. There are several problems with this attitude:

1) if someone special does come along, what would he/she find? A complete noob in their late twenties / early thirties. A turn-off.
2) when viewed from the outside it really shows - people who have not experienced good sex recently are less self-confident, more depressed or even desperate. Lots of turn-offs
3) the "saving" attitude can lead to being obsessive in a relationship. Again a turn-off
4) Billy has already made a good statement: what if your sexual compatibility will be appalling with that particular "special" person? That's quite a big gamble to take.

I never claimed any of those things to not be disgusting.

 

[Tamagochi]

I never claimed any of those things to not be disgusting.

Being disgusted at something is a personal opinion and I'm not pushing anything

It's my personal belief that people should be proud of themselves and their bodies.

 

[Wyst]

Alright.....

There are several problems with this attitude:

1) if someone special does come along, what would he/she find? A complete noob in their late twenties / early thirties. A turn-off.
2) when viewed from the outside it really shows - people who have not experienced good sex recently are less self-confident, more depressed or even desperate. Lots of turn-offs
3) the "saving" attitude can lead to being obsessive in a relationship. Again a turn-off
4) Billy has already made a good statement: what if your sexual compatibility will be appalling with that particular "special" person? That's quite a big gamble to take.

Strongly disagree with most if not all you (and Billy) stated.

I do, however, agree that people who wait to have sex once they're married can run into all kinds of disappointment..... oooh, but so does everyone else even if they have sex before marriage.

Another part I'd like to contend:

if I don't get sex that means I am saving myself for someone special

It's not that I'm not 'getting' sex. Trust me. People far less attractive and interesting than me get play. Don't make me laugh. I'm not looking for it right now - period. Some people out there may use the above 'logic' to explain away their virginity out of embarassment or frustration. That would not be me.

Hear me very clearly. My decision to wait has been with me for 15 years. It's not some half-hearted "Gee, how can I explain this, I'm so embarrassed and ashamed that I'm still a virgin when I'm almost 30 years old... oh wait, I know, I'll just say I'm saving it for marriage. That will help me feel better."

Responses to your 4 points:
1) A turn off? Please pass that on the women that gave me positive for my mindset on the matter and make sure they know I'm a turn-off

2) Check out the show on VH1: Sex Rehab with Dr. Drew and take a gander at some facts. Depression, suicide, lack of confidence... you think that these are unique to people who don't have sex? Wrong. People have the same issues even after sex before marriage.

3) Obsessing about the sexual side of a relationship? Anyone who says you should have sex before you get married is CLEARLY obsessed with the sexual side of the relationship to the point where there's a mentality of 'if the sex isn't good, I'm out of here. I would say THAT is a major turn off and extremely hypocritcal.

4) For me, relationships to not terminate on sex or how good sex is. If these were valid points, people unable to have sex would never get married.

Love and marriage is more than sex.


/rant

 

[Tamagochi]

It's not that I'm not 'getting' sex. Trust me. People far less attractive and interesting than me get play. Don't make me laugh. I'm not looking for it right now - period.

but you did admit that you're constantly thinking about it. Yet you're not looking for it. That's a little confusing.

My previous comments were not directed at you and are mostly based on RL examples in at least 4 cases where I really know the people. So I was a bit surprised by your reaction.

I'm going to sound very INTJ here - but how can you be so sure of your own beliefs if you have no data to support it? After all Billy and me do have more field experience. And we're not talking about divine here.

EDIT: I should clarify that I do know a few people who had saved virginity till marriage. And they live happily now (or at least appear to be). So my statements are not absolute.

 

[Wyst]

but you did admit that you're constantly thinking about it. Yet you're not looking for it. That's a little confusing.

Sex is a huge part of what I think about every day. I guess the difference is self-control. The desire is absolutely there though.

That help?

My previous comments were not directed at you and are mostly based on RL examples in at least 4 cases where I really know the people. So I was a bit surprised by your reaction.

I'm going to sound very INTJ here - but how can you be so sure of your own beliefs if you have no data to support it? After all Billy and me do have more field experience. And we're not talking about divine here.

Wow... two guys with 'field experience'. You call that data?

Responding with data isn't necessary when you are addressing people's attitude:

There are several problems with this attitude:

I understand that you're not addressing me per se but instead are addressing a pattern of thought or attitude toward abstinence. Fair enough.

Here's what I think about the 'practice up' before you commit mentality. No one knows anything for sure. Sure, you may have a great love life before marriage. What happens when you're married for 5 years, 10 years? If the degree of passion isn't still up there are you out of the relationship?

I'm not talking about the divine right now either. I'm talking about what contributes to the long-term success of the relationship - I mean, that's the goal of love, right? To be with the person you care about as much and as long as possible.

I say it's not the degree of how hot things are in bed but the resolve and commitment that even if things aren't as you would prefer them, you're not going anywhere but sticking with your spouse. That is love - it's not selfish or self-centered and it gives your spouse the freedom to be who they are rather than saying, 'If you're not more like this' or 'If it's not like this, I'm outta here'.

I can't imagine that any woman truly wants to be tested out first and then returned if she doesn't meet expectations.

 

[The Jester]

I can't imagine that any woman truly wants to be tested out first and then returned if she doesn't meet expectations.

Because 'testing' wouldn't be mutual?

Silly me, I forgot that women don't like sex.

Quick facts:
- Women enjoy sex too
- There are women out there who enjoy one night stands too, just like there are guys out there who enjoy
- It's not like it's a fucking extreme. Not all people who want sex before marriage just fuck around without any attachment.

 

[Wyst]

Because 'testing' wouldn't be mutual?

Silly me, I forgot that women don't like sex.

Quick facts:
- Women enjoy sex too
- There are women out there who enjoy one night stands too, just like there are guys out there who enjoy
- It's not like it's a fucking extreme. Not all people who want sex before marriage just fuck around without any attachment.

Great. So it's ok to use someone because you're being use too.

That's pretty twisted.

 

[The Jester]

Great. So it's ok to use someone because you're being use too.

That's pretty twisted.

I didn't say used.
The only thing twisted here are my words, fine chap.

Having sex before marriage is like dating someone.
You get to know them, but physically.

 

[Wyst]

I didn't say used.
The only thing twisted here are my words, fine chap.

Having sex before marriage is like dating someone.
You get to know them, but physically.

Ok then, what's special about marriage then?
You've 'gotten to know' lots of people by the time you get married. So why even bother with marriage?

What's the point of getting married - just get to know someone and leave it at that. Marriage seems pointless unless there's something about the marital relationship that sets it apart from other relationships.

 

[88chaz88]

Ok then, what's special about marriage then?
You've 'gotten to know' lots of people by the time you get married. So why even bother with marriage?

What's the point of getting married - just get to know someone and leave it at that. Marriage seems pointless unless there's something about the marital relationship that sets it apart from other relationships.

So the only good thing about marriage is sex?

 

[Bird]

Ok then, what's special about marriage then?
You've 'gotten to know' lots of people by the time you get married. So why even bother with marriage?

What's the point of getting married - just get to know someone and leave it at that. Marriage seems pointless unless there's something about the marital relationship that sets it apart from other relationships.

I don't share finances with someone I'm dating.
I don't let them know how much money I make, how much money I have, anything like that.
I imagine that once I'm married that's probably going to change.
For more than just tax purposes.

 

[The Jester]

Ok then, what's special about marriage then?
You've 'gotten to know' lots of people by the time you get married. So why even bother with marriage?

What's the point of getting married - just get to know someone and leave it at that. Marriage seems pointless unless there's something about the marital relationship that sets it apart from other relationships.

Before I answer, let me return that question to you.
What's the point in dating if there's no sex? You can get to know people better too without dating them, right?

Answer:
Marriage is a sort of insurance. You do it because you want to strengthen the bond with your partner.

 

[88chaz88]

I don't share finances with someone I'm dating.
I don't let them know how much money I make, how much money I have, anything like that.

Surely anyone with a hint of intelligence would like to know something about your finances before marrying you.

If you're that distrustful up until then why the hell would you marry them?

 

[Bird]

Surely anyone with a hint of intelligence would like to know something about your finances before marrying you.

If you're that distrustful up until then why the hell would you marry them?

Y'know I was thinking along those lines as well.


I'm not sure I'll ever be able to trust someone enough to marry them.

 

[TinyBubbles]

Answer:
Marriage is a sort of insurance. You do it because you want to strengthen the bond with your partner.

yup, that and the legal perks.

 

[Wyst]

So the only good thing about marriage is sex?

Of course not. Children are another good thing that come with marriage.

Before I answer, let me return that question to you.
What's the point in dating if there's no sex? You can get to know people better too without dating them, right?

I think you're putting the cart before the horse. The point of dating is to find a spouse.

Marriage is a sort of insurance. You do it because you want to strengthen the bond with your partner.

Woah woah.. I thought that sleeping with your SO was how you'd decide if you wanted to get married.. but now you're saying get married to stengthen the bond. Sounds like you're saying there's something missing if you leave it just at sleeping with someone.

That, to me, sounds like even if you sleep with someone you STILL can't be sure would need marriage to help you feel secure in the relationship.


Please help me understand then, why it's so important to sleep with your SO before marriage if good sex alone doesn't convince you of the strength of your bond?

 

[88chaz88]

Of course not. Children are another good thing that come with marriage.

It may surprise you to know that you can have children without being married.

 

[The Jester]

Woah woah.. I thought that sleeping with your SO was how you'd decide if you wanted to get married.. but now you're saying get married to stengthen the bond. Sounds like you're saying there's something missing if you leave it just at sleeping with someone.

That, to me, sounds like even if you sleep with someone you STILL can't be sure would need marriage to help you feel secure in the relationship.


Please help me understand then, why it's so important to sleep with your SO before marriage if good sex alone doesn't convince you of the strength of your bond?

I was just placing myself in your position and that of others.
You're also strengthening it legally and financially, which doesn't really happen when you're just having a relationship.

I don't need marriage to strengthen the bond with my partner, because I find it ridiculous.
I don't need some fucking ceremony to tell me I love my partner.
I'd do it for my partner though.

 

[Wyst]

It may surprise you to know that you can have children without being married.

That is indeed a surprise that people would choose to do that.

Let's following the progression of the logic here:
1) Sex before marriage results in kid
2) For whatever reason, sex isn't as good as it was before
3) Relationship ends
4) Kid grows up without father in their life every day

One huge problem with with kids these days its because EVEN IF they do/did have a father in the house, their father is/wasn't a good example.

How much worse off will a kid with no father be?

Seriously, if you take a look at what men were like 100 years ago there is a DRASTIC difference to what 'men' are today. Men these days are boys in adult bodies that insist on remaining in adolescence because they don't know what they want. Peter Pan syndrome all over the place.

I'm not bringing my beliefs into this, I'm just looking over history and showing what happens when there is a lack of male leadership in the house.

Having kids inside marriage is MUCH better.

 

[88chaz88]

That is indeed a surprise that people would choose to do that.

Let's following the progression of the logic here:
1) Sex before marriage results in kid
2) For whatever reason, sex isn't as good as it was before
3) Relationship ends
4) Kid grows up without father in their life every day

One huge problem with with kids these days its because EVEN IF they do/did have a father in the house, their father is/wasn't a good example.

How much worse off will a kid with no father be?

Seriously, if you take a look at what men were like 100 years ago there is a DRASTIC difference to what 'men' are today. Men these days are boys in adult bodies that insist on remaining in adolescence because they don't know what they want. Peter Pan syndrome all over the place.

I'm not bringing my beliefs into this, I'm just looking over history and showing what happens when there is a lack of male leadership in the house.

Having kids inside marriage is MUCH better.

Well there's no arguing if your outlook on life is as bleak as this.