Do people realise the truth about power?

philostam said:
I'm from Central Europe.

I don't care about left or right, but I dislike wokism, social justice, central planing, central banks, police state...

I just wanna be left doing my own thing without the state "protection" and regulation on every step. And Europe is moving too much into this direction in my opinion.
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Well there is pretty much no left anymore, or politics for the majority if you
like. I agree Europe and U.K. are going in the wrong direction, ie. More and more like USA.
 
That's why early US history is for me, the biggest economic miracle of all time.

You had relatively low tax rates, strong property laws, gold standard, a lot of freedom, not a lot of regulation and the opposite of police state. And no central bank and fiat currency.

It was chaotic at times, but it produced amazing innovation and wealth.
 
David Nelson said:
I’m guessing most of you guys are in USA, a country with lower educational levels than U.K., a more screwed society and generally highly dysfunctional.
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Not really a valid argument unless you are talking to a 20yr old.
Even then, the disparity in the quality of educational institutions is vast.
 
philostam said:
That's why early US history is for me, the biggest economic miracle of all time.

You had relatively low tax rates, strong property laws, gold standard, a lot of freedom, not a lot of regulation and the opposite of police state. And no central bank and fiat currency.

It was chaotic at times, but it produced amazing innovation and wealth.
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For the already wealthy. The underclass position as such was cemented. It was the codification of class. And for sure, I don’t see slavery and child labor as a miracle, regardless of what it produces.

Cheers,
Ian
 
philostam said:
That's why early US history is for me, the biggest economic miracle of all time.

You had relatively low tax rates, strong property laws, gold standard, a lot of freedom, not a lot of regulation and the opposite of police state. And no central bank and fiat currency.

It was chaotic at times, but it produced amazing innovation and wealth.
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Yes the 20th century belonged to the USA which saw incredible changes and growth. The trouble is it’s never sustainable imo. Anyhows the overclass put an end to Democratic pluralism which is largely what you are admiring.
 
Maybe you're right. I'm not an expert on US history, it just strikes me more of a miracle than the current "Chinese miracle" predicated on debt and authoritarian state.

US got a lof of things right in my opinion, but like I say, I'm not even close to an expert.

It's late here, going bed.
 
aeon said:
For the already wealthy. The underclass position as such was cemented. It was the codification of class. And for sure, I don’t see slavery and child labor as a miracle, regardless of what it produces.

Cheers,
Ian
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Not really. During much of the 20th century, up to the 1970s, inequality reduced. It’s gone backwards since.
 
David Nelson said:
Yes the 20th century belonged to the USA which saw incredible changes and growth. The trouble is it’s never sustainable imo. Anyhows the overclass put an end to Democratic pluralism which is largely what you are admiring.
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I meant 18th and 19th century. 20th century America is already a bit meh... Yeah there was a great post WW2 boom but that's because literally everyone else was completely wrecked to pieces and US was the only one left to produce stuff.
 
David Nelson said:
Does this make any difference?
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A small bit of advice when sharing photos taken with a phone is to strip any meta data because reasons.
Wyote said:
INFJs don't read, they just like the smell of books
Change my mind
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You got points there and can confirm as I got a small collection of 19th century books with some being leather bound.
 
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David Nelson said:
Not really. During much of the 20th century, up to the 1970s, inequality reduced. It’s gone backwards since.
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I’m glad @philostam clarified what he meant by “early US history.”

A short-sighted view extending to only the 20th century can be used to argue many positions, even ones I like, but don’t make the mistake of thinking it was progress in the eyes of those truly in control. To them, it was a mistake, and they have been working for some time to correct things (as they see it), and insure it never happens again.

Cheers,
Ian
 
aeon said:
I’m glad @philostam clarified what he meant by “early US history.”

A short-sighted view extending to only the 20th century can be used to argue many positions, even ones I like, but don’t make the mistake of thinking it was progress in the eyes of those truly in control. To them, it was a mistake, and they have been working for some time to correct things (as they see it), and insure it never happens again.

Cheers,
Ian
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I think you might mean this…. Democratic pluralism was necessary to allow western nations to fight and recover from WW2. This meant class compromise and greater power and money for the working class. Not so much a mistake as a necessity, but it was countered from the 60s onwards to the dystopias we now live in. The overclass were never happy giving up power to working people, so they had a revolution from above and have largely neutered any countervailing power from below. This explains all the discontent and populism.
 
Definitely a mistake, make no mistake about that. The rebuilding is not what I mean, but damn did the US make bank when the UK and Europe were down. The US made predatory loans to lots of folks, after making sure to purloin the best and brightest first.

You must also consider what came in the first half of the 20th century in the United States. That’s the mistake I mean—the post-WW2 boom in the US was but a bump in the road.

Cheers,
Ian
 
For sure US made big bank out of WW2. Smedley D Butler testified that most wars were mainly about private profits. They hadn’t yet got to grips with controlling power of the working class, but they learned how to do it. Ironically, as I’ve already said, US and U.K. elites largely admired the nazis. If the nazis had not tried to take on the world, Democrat pluralism might never have happened. It was a dangerous time for the rich, as they saw their slice of the pie diminish. It’s a testament that there very much are good alternatives to /technocratic neoliberalism/capitalism which work a lot better. There is nothing inevitable about where we are now, and it’s not working very well overall. No system in pure form works well, a mixed economy seems the best compromise.
 
David Nelson said:
There is nothing inevitable about where we are now, and it’s not working very well overall.
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I agree, but bear in mind I am not a man of wealth. :)

David Nelson said:
No system in pure form works well, a mixed economy seems the best compromise.
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Inasmuch as we (planetary collective) have never experienced any system in pure form, we have no way of knowing this, and your statement, which might be true, is speculatory.

Some systems haven’t been tried whatsoever.

Cheers,
Ian
 
aeon said:
I agree, but bear in mind I am not a man of wealth. :)



Inasmuch as we (planetary collective) have never experienced any system in pure form, we have no way of knowing this, and your statement, which might be true, is speculatory.

Some systems haven’t been tried whatsoever.

Cheers,
Ian
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Well I meant any system yet defined and used. Like capitalism. It’s not speculative that it can’t work in pure form, because this is why it never has. When I say ‘never works ’ I mean in a way which right minded people would accept and/or which is not inherently unstable. Pure capitalism leads to mass inequality which is not sustainable without a benefits system. Without this, it would lead to mass starvation, and even the rich would suffer. If purely speculative, we would probably have seen it installed.

We’ve seen problems with socialism (lack of incentive for innovation, ambition etc) and in worse form mixed with communism is another goat fuck.
 
David Nelson said:
Hard to get sex when you are broke.
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It was only when I was literally penniless that I met the love of my life. :)

That idea is certainly common, and sometimes it plays out if your aim is to “get sex.” That said, it isn’t universally true, and that’s why the elements of that triumvirate may seem interrelated, but are, in truth, independent.

Can you use one to get another?

I guess the answer is yes, maybe, or no, depending on who you are and the situation, and given those things, one is likely easier to attain than the others.

Hey, consider this—if she likes you and you’re poor, and you are insecure about yourself, you can at least let go of the neurosis she doesn't actually like you but is after your money. :P

Cheers,
Ian
 
There have been 22 food processing plants burn down in US in the last year. This happened today. Focusing on actual steps you can take to try and be as self sufficient as possible can only make your situation better. Dont wait until everyone gets the same idea. A food shortage is a very real scenario. You will be amazed how much you can grow in 90 days. I will share useful DIY idea and hope it helps someone.
https://twitter.com/alexstein99/status/1522562658343567361?t=XLG4Na8v89zmVSCK9a_U-A&s=19
 
aeon said:
Definitely a mistake, make no mistake about that. The rebuilding is not what I mean, but damn did the US make bank when the UK and Europe were down. The US made predatory loans to lots of folks, after making sure to purloin the best and brightest first.

You must also consider what came in the first half of the 20th century in the United States. That’s the mistake I mean—the post-WW2 boom in the US was but a bump in the road.

Cheers,
Ian
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19th century was a simpler time. Governments at that time didn't have such military advantage over the people. There were no tanks and jets. It was harder to enforce rules at the point of a gun. It became much easier later.

Nowadays governments are completely unhinged and there's nothing to keep them in check. They have monopoly over money and military. I don't think this is healthy at all.

Again, from my (biased) perspective I see Bitcoin as the best governor of governments we have. It's a non government money that keeps them in check. It's also something that cannot be seized or stolen by force, so their military superiority loses advantage.
 
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