Do you believe in ghosts?

[Flygirl]

For those of you who see ghosts I would like to say the following. All of the times you have seen them or believed they were there, had I been there I would have seen nothing. Maybe I would have heard noises but I would have bee successfully been able to offer better explanations as to where those come from.
Knowing this, does it mean I am less in tune with whatever allows people to see and experience these things? Or does it mean people who see these things potentially have something going on with them that others do not?

The human mind is a wonderful thing, even more so is the way its wired so differently in different people. I believe only a very small percentage of the human population can actually pick up such alternate frequencies and wavelengths. In other words I guess some of us are just more sensitive to these things than the normal population and i guess its this very fact that draws those things to us??

 

[Flygirl]

Oh, I believe.
I wasn’t trying to pick on anyone…but there are some Christians who adamantly believe in things like ghosts and demons and then you have the complete opposite it seems…I was only curious as to why, but I can only assume it’s just the way they taught things in that particular sect of the religion.

I would say its more their own personal convictions rather than they being taught because I don't think there is a Bible version out there that doesn't contain the part where Jesus cast out the demon from the possessed man. So if one is a Christian and reads the Bible, one cannot but believe that Jesus did this miracle. And if we believe that, then we have to believe that the man was indeed possessed. And possessed by what? A demonic spirit. So I don't think one can claim to be Christian and not believe in the existence of these entities.

 

[Sriracha]

If there is no evidence to provide a belief system with the mandate to claim itself as fact, then it is not real. If it were real, it wouldn't require faith.

It makes it real for the person viewing it. We all see different things.

 

[Skarekrow]

I would say its more their own personal convictions rather than they being taught because I don't think there is a Bible version out there that doesn't contain the part where Jesus cast out the demon from the possessed man. So if one is a Christian and reads the Bible, one cannot but believe that Jesus did this miracle. And if we believe that, then we have to believe that the man was indeed possessed. And possessed by what? A demonic spirit. So I don't think one can claim to be Christian and not believe in the existence of these entities.

But then they scoff at people trying to collect evidence of such things for the most part…even though a majority of the population is religious and should therefore believe in such things as all major religions have their own verses and stories of spirits or entities. I think a good portion of people don’t want to believe in ghosts or demons.
Religious or not, to accept ghosts/spirits/demons/entities/etc. makes one also have to accept the separation of brain and soul and if the majority believes in such things why aren’t we giving them more serious study.
Because there are many very interesting studies that imply a lot of very curious things.
That is mainly the purpose of my Merkabah thread.

Anyhow…the brain is a reducing valve from consciousness itself, a receiver and filter…like a TV…the signal exists regardless of it being on or certain parts working…we can manipulate parts of a TV like we manipulate parts of the brain and get certain results, but there still is no strong working model of where consciousness erupts in the arena of Materialist science…according to some, we are but a very fancy, possibly quantum, organic computer…and the qualia we experience is only the mind fooling itself into believing it is making conscious choices or having free will.
I don’t buy it.
The TV model so far makes far more sense…but I will submit to being wrong if they can find a more substantial explanation…what is the purpose of the brain fooling itself into believing it has free will?

 

[Flygirl]

But then they scoff at people trying to collect evidence of such things for the most part…even though a majority of the population is religious and should therefore believe in such things as all major religions have their own verses and stories of spirits or entities. I think a good portion of people don’t want to believe in ghosts or demons.
Religious or not, to accept ghosts/spirits/demons/entities/etc. makes one also have to accept the separation of brain and soul and if the majority believes in such things why aren’t we giving them more serious study.
Because there are many very interesting studies that imply a lot of very curious things.
That is mainly the purpose of my Merkabah thread.

Anyhow…the brain is a reducing valve from consciousness itself, a receiver and filter…like a TV…the signal exists regardless of it being on or certain parts working…we can manipulate parts of a TV like we manipulate parts of the brain and get certain results, but there still is no strong working model of where consciousness erupts in the arena of Materialist science…according to some, we are but a very fancy, possibly quantum, organic computer…and the qualia we experience is only the mind fooling itself into believing it is making conscious choices or having free will.
I don’t buy it.
The TV model so far makes far more sense…but I will submit to being wrong if they can find a more substantial explanation…what is the purpose of the brain fooling itself into believing it has free will?

Gosh... I typed a whole long explanation for this and accidentally deleted the whole thing!

 

[Skarekrow]

Gosh... I typed a whole long explanation for this and accidentally deleted the whole thing!

Sucks when that happens.
:-(

 

[Flygirl]

Sucks when that happens.
:-(

Hang on... Lemme try again.

 

[Skarekrow]

Hang on... Lemme try again.

Take your time…I used to have a really shitty internet connection and I just got into the habit of selecting my text and copying it before I hit the send button.
But…yeah, done that more than once.

 

[Flygirl]

But then they scoff at people trying to collect evidence of such things for the most part…even though a majority of the population is religious and should therefore believe in such things as all major religions have their own verses and stories of spirits or entities. I think a good portion of people don’t want to believe in ghosts or demons.
Religious or not, to accept ghosts/spirits/demons/entities/etc. makes one also have to accept the separation of brain and soul and if the majority believes in such things why aren’t we giving them more serious study.
Because there are many very interesting studies that imply a lot of very curious things.
That is mainly the purpose of my Merkabah thread.

Anyhow…the brain is a reducing valve from consciousness itself, a receiver and filter…like a TV…the signal exists regardless of it being on or certain parts working…we can manipulate parts of a TV like we manipulate parts of the brain and get certain results, but there still is no strong working model of where consciousness erupts in the arena of Materialist science…according to some, we are but a very fancy, possibly quantum, organic computer…and the qualia we experience is only the mind fooling itself into believing it is making conscious choices or having free will.
I don’t buy it.
The TV model so far makes far more sense…but I will submit to being wrong if they can find a more substantial explanation…what is the purpose of the brain fooling itself into believing it has free will?

So I was saying... Yes, to accept the existence of ghosts, demons etc. you would need to accept the separation of the brain and the soul. Me personally, I think that part of me that feels physical pain is my body. That which feels mental pain is my spirit. And that which feels emotional pain is my soul. The spirit and soul dwell in the physical body. Hence, I believe the spirit and the soul makes what we call "life" and once this "life" leaves the physical body, we hv what we call "death". So the physical body cannot exist without the spirit and the soul. But can the spirit and the soul exist without the physical body? I believe so.

Now can we quantify and measure and scientifically prove the spirit and the soul? I don't think so. At least not in scientifically conventional ways. I think the mere cycle of life and death is enough to make one realize that there is a thing called "life" without which the physical body cannot exist. And what is this "life" that once it leaves the body, that body dies and decays?

 

[ZcM4xzkjgzCjytBc]

I would believe in an angel or demon more than a ghost. Ghosts, even when metaphorical, have an uninteresting lower purpose.

 

[Flygirl]

For me personally, it is this thing called "life" that fascinates me. Can science create life from inorganic molecules in a lab? Of course not. So what is it and where does it originate from? Also the complexities of the human mind... How do we remember (our memory), how do we know what is right and what is wrong (our conscience), how do we make judgments, decisions etc. All this fascinate me. And so I cannot but help believe in the existence of a higher power, of an intelligence far beyond what we could ever comprehend and I call that higher power "God".

So for me, it does not matter that we cannot assign a unit to our thoughts and consciousness. This is where I believe "faith" comes in. People either believe or don't. Those that choose not to believe (in the existence of the spiritual realm)..
Well im okay with that. But for us who do, it makes life so much more interesting and exciting.

 

[ThomasJ79]

Some of the rational portions of my brain say no, that yesteryear's "soul" has become yesterday's "mind", which is the modern, scientific understanding that the mind is a product of the brain; our 'brains secrete consciousness', as I've heard it eloquently stated. This leads to a belief that death is the end, that the "soul"(our deeper concepts of self) dies when the brain ceases to function. Under this notion, the experience of consciousness in some sort of afterlife or disembodied spirits are impossible. I am not sure how consciousness could exist without a network of neurons to support it.

However, other rational portions of my brain, my own intuitions of life, which are not substantiated by any hard facts or 'evidence', say that as human beings we are really incapable of ever truly being objective in this area of knowledge. There may very well be some other anatural forces, neither supernatural or natural, but undetectable by our senses, which lead to a belief that there will always be more to reality than meets the eye; missing ingredients that can only be partially known by us. Much of this we use as a creative force and become myths, religions, and spiritual beliefs that try and bridge this knowledge gap between the known and the unknown.

 

[Flygirl]

I would believe in an angel or demon more than a ghost. Ghosts, even when metaphorical, have an uninteresting lower purpose.

I think you may be right. As a Christian, I believe demons are "fallen angels" that rebelled against God. And ghosts, I think are the spirits and souls of people who died tragically or unnaturally. Somehow they are stuck at a particular time and place and hv not moved on either because they cant or wont. The rest of the world has though, and if, somehow the past overlaps with the present, then we might hv what we call "hauntings" or "ghost sightings". But yes, I do believe demons are much much more sinister and evil. Ghosts are not sinister per se (my humble opinion). They are just tragically caught up in time.

 

[hush]

I'm open-minded, but a skeptic. I believe in the possibility of certain things, but not necessarily in the things themselves.

 

[hush]

Gosh... I typed a whole long explanation for this and accidentally deleted the whole thing!

Sucks when that happens.
:-(

Hang on... Lemme try again.

Just as a heads up (you might already know this, but just in case) - sometimes it doesn't get auto-saved properly, but the forum will automatically save your posts as you type them, so you can restore what you wrote last before you lost the content. Just click this button I circled here:

 

[Flygirl]

Just as a heads up (you might already know this, but just in case) - sometimes it doesn't get auto-saved properly, but the forum will automatically save your posts as you type them, so you can restore what you wrote last before you lost the content. Just click this button I circled here:

Thanks for the tip! Funny I missed the restore button

 

[Flygirl]

I'm open-minded, but a skeptic. I believe in the possibility of certain things, but not necessarily in the things themselves.

Hope you don't mind me saying this, but aren't you contradicting yourself? You say you're open minded but then call yourself a skeptic... I mean being open minded implies a blank slate with nothing written on it, open to new experiences and yet being skeptical implies already having preconceived notions of what you are about to experience. And I don't get the second part.... You believe in the possibility of ghosts but not in the ghosts themselves??

 

[hush]

Hope you don't mind me saying this, but aren't you contradicting yourself? You say you're open minded but then call yourself a skeptic... I mean being open minded implies a blank slate with nothing written on it, open to new experiences and yet being skeptical implies already having preconceived notions of what you are about to experience. And I don't get the second part.... You believe in the possibility of ghosts but not in the ghosts themselves??

I don't mind at all.

And nah, it's not contradictory, necessarily. I am indeed very open-minded. I can believe anything is possible, and wouldn't close my mind to those possibilities. The skepticism comes in because I require quite a bit to believe with any sort of certainty. I don't have any preconceived notions. I start at zero, open to a possibility, and am constantly observing and gathering information. I remain skeptical to believing in something as truth until I have gathered sufficient information, in the same way that I gather information to deem something being false.

You are exactly right - I believe in the possibility of ghosts, but not in the ghosts themselves. I don't believe that they do exist, and I don't believe that they don't exist. I believe that they could.

 

[Elegant Winter]

I want to believe.

 

[Elegant Winter]

I want to see the ghosties.