Do you think it is ok to fatally harm someone because they are bad or killed someone?

[Asa]

I've had some unusual life experiences and I have yet to encounter any situation where execution was the ethical option.

Peter Singer once said something during an interview that I believe in (paraphrasing): I would do anything to save my child (insinuating anyone would), that's why there are laws to protect society.
Of course, Singer is an animal rights activist and he was talking about the ethics of animal testing, but the point he was making is how we may feel in personal and emotional situations does not justify harming others. Society has laws to protect us, and a framework for violating such laws, because we cannot always properly weigh the ethical/moral choice when faced with extreme personal and emotional circumstances. Of course we would do anything to save our loved ones, but harming others is rarely ethical.

In cases with criminals like serial killers, or war criminals like Hitler, execution may or may not be an ethical decision, but those are extremes.

The prison system is an entirely different thread, so I won't get into that here, but it isn't difficult to do research about the history, business (capitalism), politics, and racism of US prisons. It's impossible to use that system as an example in an ethics debate when the system itself is unethical and corrupt.

 

[Infjente]

Now, I have 2 friends in prison for child molestation. Both I know are innocent.
The woman who testified against my friend, oh I have my opinions on her. Her IQ is roughly that of a doorknob. If said doorknob was drunk and narcissistic.
So there are many innocent people locked up. The system needs to be fixed before enforcing such a penalty though

Do I believe crime should be handled like the wild West? Hell yeah I do. If there's a random person breaking into your car or slashing your tires, why not have the ability to hog tie the idiot and publicly hang him in the town square? Watch property crime drop.

The system doesn't work because innocent people goes to jail. It would be better if each and every person were able to take the matter into their own hands.

Let's say your innocent friend just got out of prison after serving a sentence for a crime he did not commit. He decides to go just a little bit "Wild West justice" on the doorknob who's responsible for it all. So in order to feel a little better about it, he goes to slash her tires. The doorknob, who couldn't care less about the car (it was going to the scrap yard anyway), see the perfect opportunity to wipe out the disgusting predator once and for all and shoots him dead. She was protecting her property, and gets no punishment.

That turned out well, didn't it?

You say I have true colors... Go anywhere North of Bakersfield and South of Sacramento and fan out east into the Sierra Nevadas.

There's a lot of people with that sentiment.

Yeah, that's why I hoped you were a troll. This kind of mentality - in the western world, in 2019 reflects nothing but the ugliest kind of egocentrism. I'm not saying you are like that. You're probably as innocent as an African child soldier. But it would be irresponsible of me to not speak my mind when I come across something like this.

 

[BritNi]

The system doesn't work because innocent people goes to jail. It would be better if each and every person were able to take the matter into their own hands.

Let's say your innocent friend just got out of prison after serving a sentence for a crime he did not commit. He decides to go just a little bit "Wild West justice" on the doorknob who's responsible for it all. So in order to feel a little better about it, he goes to slash her tires. The doorknob, who couldn't care less about the car (it was going to the scrap yard anyway), see the perfect opportunity to wipe out the disgusting predator once and for all and shoots him dead. She was protecting her property, and gets no punishment.

That turned out well, didn't it?



Yeah, that's why I hoped you were a troll. This kind of mentality - in the western world, in 2019 reflects nothing but the ugliest kind of egocentrism. I'm not saying you are like that. You're probably as innocent as an African child soldier. But it would be irresponsible of me to not speak my mind when I come across something like this.

@Infjente ...just know that not all of us feel this way. =(

 

[Infjente]

@Infjente ...just know that not all of us feel this way. =(

Of course not, BritNi!!

I usually don't get worked up over cultural differences in values and such. Over all, I don't believe moral preaching and pointing fingers to be very efficient, but that open discussions without judgement is the better approach. Sometimes I can even support/agree that something that I consider - and is considered wrong/unethical/inhumane in my culture, can be for the better in other cultures. Other times though, keeping ones cool can be perceived as indifference or even agreeing/consent. So it's important to offer contrasting perspectives in some cases. Harsh ones.

 

[Lady Jolanda]

I giggled.

I suddenly feel the need to start a noose business when I move to Murica.

 

[BritNi]

I suddenly feel the need to start a noose business when I move to Murica.

I'll be your first customer.
(I'm totally joking. Maybe. Am I? )

 

[Wyote]

Not at all. I'm not saying we should kill every person who steals a candy bar. That's a little cruel.

I'm not interested in a debate here really, but I just wanted to clarify what I meant.
Your logic as it stands means that if I know a person who is actively engaging in activities that you deem unacceptable, as in damaging another's vehicle, then you would pay me $890 to punish them as I see fit. Or perhaps you have your own personal set of laws that I could consult, wherein some crime's punishment results in execution.
So, I just need to find those people, murder them and PROFIT!

 

[Wyote]

TLDR

If it's okay to kill someone cause they killed someone, you end up with a near infinite chain of killing, with the last person killing themselves. (The chain can only be broken by someone killing themselves.)

Enjoy your empty planet. (Not that there is anyone left to enjoy it.)

@Wyote Can I has cupcake? Pleeaasee?

Everyone's dead. I have all the money.
*gives you cupcakes*

 

[BritNi]

I'll be your first customer.
(I'm totally joking. Maybe. Am I? )

I was really joking. I feel bad about it now, though. Like.... really, really bad. I can't believe I said that.

 

[Infjente]

I suddenly feel the need to start a noose business when I move to Murica.

 

[BritNi]

Is it just me, or it getting dark in here? =/

 

[Milktoast Bandit]

No material object is worth a life. You don't need to kill someone to defend yourself either.

Ex: A good friend of mine was dating a girl. The girl's ex boyfriend found out about it and he stalked them to my friend's house, trapped them in the car, was banging on the car and threatening to kill them both. My friend escaped his car, ran inside his house, called the cops and grabbed his shotgun. As soon as that guy threw open the front door to the house, my friend shot his knee. Dropped him instantly. He went to jail. My friend didn't get in any trouble. I lived across the street and saw the whole thing.

 

[BritNi]

No material object is worth a life. You don't need to kill someone to defend yourself either.

Ex: A good friend of mine was dating a girl. The girl's ex boyfriend found out about it and he stalked them to my friend's house, trapped them in the car, was banging on the car and threatening to kill them both. My friend escaped his car, ran inside his house, called the cops and grabbed his shotgun. As soon as that guy threw open the front door to the house, my friend shot his knee. Dropped him instantly. He went to jail. My friend didn't get in any trouble. I lived across the street and saw the whole thing.

I've been told that if you shoot, shoot to kill. If you shoot them and they survive, then they can sue you even if they broke in your home. Is this not true?

I've always said that I'd shoot the knee, or foot, or somewhere non-lethal. But, someone argued against me and gave that reasoning. I need to know for sure because I wouldn't want to kill of it's not necessary.

 

[BritNi]

No material object is worth a life. You don't need to kill someone to defend yourself either.

Ex: A good friend of mine was dating a girl. The girl's ex boyfriend found out about it and he stalked them to my friend's house, trapped them in the car, was banging on the car and threatening to kill them both. My friend escaped his car, ran inside his house, called the cops and grabbed his shotgun. As soon as that guy threw open the front door to the house, my friend shot his knee. Dropped him instantly. He went to jail. My friend didn't get in any trouble. I lived across the street and saw the whole thing.

http://defense-training.com/tactics/deliberately-shooting-to-wound-or-disable-rather-than-kill/

 

[Milktoast Bandit]

I've been told that if you shoot, shoot to kill. If you shoot them and they survive, then they can sue you even if they broke in your home. Is this not true?

I've always said that I'd shoot the knee, or foot, or somewhere non-lethal. But, someone argued against me and gave that reasoning. I need to know for sure because I wouldn't want to kill of it's not necessary.

Heck, idk. I'm no expert. I just don't like killing. I guess if they keep coming for you, you'd have to put them down eventually.

 

[Asa]

Ex: A good friend of mine was dating a girl. The girl's ex boyfriend found out about it and he stalked them to my friend's house, trapped them in the car, was banging on the car and threatening to kill them both. My friend escaped his car, ran inside his house, called the cops and grabbed his shotgun. As soon as that guy threw open the front door to the house, my friend shot his knee. Dropped him instantly. He went to jail. My friend didn't get in any trouble. I lived across the street and saw the whole thing.

In the words of my sensei: Fight to survive, not to get away. If you can survive by shooting someone in the knee, great! A lot of people die because they're focusing on escape rather than survival, or focusing on doing the minimal amount to harm another, instead of survival. My sensei gave us famous examples of this when he explained this to us. (Also, never put yourself in a situation where you are adding more danger for yourself. Never "take a fight outside", for example.)

A friend of mine was murdered by her mentally ill ex-boyfriend. (I knew him, too.) So, my perspective about "crazy" exes is a bit different, and I have a much different story than the one you told. I'm happy your friend didn't have to kill anyone and it worked out, but it doesn't always work out.

 

[Milktoast Bandit]

In the words of my sensei: Fight to survive, not to get away. If you can survive by shooting someone in the knee, great! A lot of people die because they're focusing on escape rather than survival, or focusing on doing the minimal amount to harm another, instead of survival. My sensei gave us famous examples of this when he explained this to us. (Also, never put yourself in a situation where you are adding more danger for yourself. Never "take a fight outside", for example.)

A friend of mine was murdered by her mentally ill ex-boyfriend. (I knew him, too.) So, my perspective about "crazy" exes is a bit different, and I have a much different story than the one you told. I'm happy your friend didn't have to kill anyone and it worked out, but it doesn't always work out.

Yeah, I guess every situation is different. A year ago or so, I recommended a former member of the forum get a gun and take out her crazy ex if necessary. I'm not preaching againist killing if it's necessary for survival. Its not always necessary

 

[JennyDaniella]

No material object is worth a life. You don't need to kill someone to defend yourself either.

Ex: A good friend of mine was dating a girl. The girl's ex boyfriend found out about it and he stalked them to my friend's house, trapped them in the car, was banging on the car and threatening to kill them both. My friend escaped his car, ran inside his house, called the cops and grabbed his shotgun. As soon as that guy threw open the front door to the house, my friend shot his knee. Dropped him instantly. He went to jail. My friend didn't get in any trouble. I lived across the street and saw the whole thing.

I second this.

There is a difference between killing someone just over a materialistic purpose or defending yourself and your loved ones without causing the life of another.

But unfortunately there are some cases where the perpetrator are just too dangerous themselves that you have to go beyond the level of trying to spare the other person’s life and have to put your loved ones and your life first. I have always been the type of person that will think in all angles and perspectives before carrying out a plan or decision, I don’t even like killing spiders or insects in general. But if my life or loved ones are at extreme risk, then unfortunately survival and keeping them safe are my top priority.

I believe it really depends on the situation of the manner of the interaction.

 

[Asa]

@Milktoast Bandit and @JennyDaniella – I agree. Do as little harm as necessary. Spare the person if possible, but weigh the situation and aim to survive.

I hope none of us are ever in this position.

 

[Milktoast Bandit]

@Milktoast Bandit and @JennyDaniella – I agree. Do as little harm as necessary. Spare the person if possible, but weigh the situation and aim to survive.

I hope none of us are ever in this position.

I like to think I could do what's necessary to protect my kids and others if a life or death situation arises. Then again, I'm a bit of a sissy so I'll probably just cry and get killed anyway...