Does being a procrastinator automatically rule out "J"

heartcore said:
Is it different in extroverted Perceiving types, like ENTP?
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Not in my experience, nor theoretically should it be since (per your example) INTP and ENTP use the same functions, just in different order.

Example - I work on the same team with an ENTP. Her approach to every problem is to produce a high volume of ideas (Ne). She will take any given situation and offer a myriad of suggestions (some of them way off the wall) until one of them finally sticks or spurs a different, workable idea within the group. She probably asks more questions than I do, but her questions seem to be designed to foster a creative process, rather than to derive singular truths.

By contrast, my ESTJ colleague approaches any situation by asking questions, working through all the facts until a conclusion presents itself (Te). He will ask as many questions as it takes to get to the bottom of what he's trying to find. I often view his questions as "unnecessary" but they help him to reach good decisions. It's just a different process than mine.

Understanding the differences between Judging processes and Perceiving processes, and their preferred direction for each of the types, has done wonders for my understanding of MBTI and its applications. :blush:
 
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infinite dreams said:
By contrast, my ESTJ colleague approaches any situation by asking questions, working through all the facts until a conclusion presents itself (Te). He will ask as many questions as it takes to get to the bottom of what he's trying to find. I often view his questions as "unnecessary" but they help him to reach good decisions. It's just a different process than mine.
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I've experienced that too in my current (and soon former) job. One of the managers is ESTJ and man, how many times over Skype do I think to myself: "How on earth can you ask so many boring questions?" lol. But like you said, the questions aren't at all boring in essence, they're just a little foreign to my thinking process, while absolutely essential to hers. And she is excellent at what she does - truly.

My future boss is ENFP. I've worked with her before. Her process is exactly like you described your ENTP colleague's:

infinite dreams said:
I work on the same team with an ENTP. Her approach to every problem is to produce a high volume of ideas (Ne). She will take any given situation and offer a myriad of suggestions (some of them way off the wall) until one of them finally sticks or spurs a different, workable idea within the group. She probably asks more questions than I do, but her questions seem to be designed to foster a creative process, rather than to derive singular truths.
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I prefer that approach, though it's not mine either and can sometimes feel a little bit "overwhelming". But often I find that we are quite complementary. I see patterns quickly so that helps her with her ideation and filtering process I think.
 
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infinite dreams said:
Not in my experience, nor theoretically should it be since (per your example) INTP and ENTP use the same functions, just in different order.

Example - I work on the same team with an ENTP. Her approach to every problem is to produce a high volume of ideas (Ne). She will take any given situation and offer a myriad of suggestions (some of them way off the wall) until one of them finally sticks or spurs a different, workable idea within the group. She probably asks more questions than I do, but her questions seem to be designed to foster a creative process, rather than to derive singular truths.

By contrast, my ESTJ colleague approaches any situation by asking questions, working through all the facts until a conclusion presents itself (Te). He will ask as many questions as it takes to get to the bottom of what he's trying to find. I often view his questions as "unnecessary" but they help him to reach good decisions. It's just a different process than mine.

Understanding the differences between Judging processes and Perceiving processes, and their preferred direction for each of the types, has done wonders for my understanding of MBTI and its applications. :blush:
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Meanwhile the INFJ sits there like a potato until the problem is about to implode, at which point we have a brilliant idea in our back pocket that saves everything
 
Wyote said:
Meanwhile the INFJ sits there like a potato until the problem is about to implode, at which point we have a brilliant idea in our back pocket that saves everything
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This INTP does that sometimes too, but instead of a cutting, insightful, well-formed idea, my solution comes out sounding like a dying jackass yodeling the Star Spangled Banner.

Ti/Ne "group verbal communication," hurr durr.
 
ButterflyChaser said:
I've stumbled over this for quite a while. I have issues answering questions like "Does your home and work office look organized", Do you like schedules or plans, stick to a plan? and You like to keep options open or closure?

Home - I have better things to do with my time. If I start organizing I get stuck halfway, micro organizing tiny things that I don't get done with more important stuff. The easiest solution is to just let clutter happen. Organize just enough so I can find what I need. When I have to make my apartment clean, then I'll go into high drive, everything will be neatly in its place, things shining for just long enough to put on an impression.

Work: Can't stand clutter. I work in a retail store, so I'm (nearly) always making sure the store is tidy, free of dust bunnies hopping along the floor, products are placed in order, etc... The times I am not, then I am focused on unboxing and getting stuff put away.

Schedules: I don't set a set schedule, nor do I keep a written plan, but I do what I can to be on time with whatever meeting I go to and I expect others to be on time. But because I don't write down lists to check off I always answer "No" to those type of questions. The list I make is in my mind if I make one. More so I make a mental plan of what I want to do. If I have time, I may deviate. if not, then I remain focused.

Plans and procrastination: I am still trying to figure that one out, why I do so. I see a mental plan of whatever I am to do already finished and done in my mind. I can also see it finished and done several ways. But sometimes I get hung up because the actual process doesn't match my mental image, or I have trouble figuring out which version of the "finished" product is correct for the present task, or I have another project I am doing along side the procrastinated project and I don't have time or the mental energy to do both at the same time.


I assumed these were Perceiver traits, which lands me as a clear INFP, but as I was trying to figure out the differences between Ni and Ne and Fi vs Fe, I got stuck in a loop trying to figure out which of those is actually happening with me. It seems like if I was a true INFP, I wouldn't be stuck in an endless loop trying to figure out what I was doing, read up, and keep looking up each article trying to tick off mental boxes/ checklists in my mind. Am I gathering up external stimuli to build up my ideas, my project and storing it for future use or am I trying to validate an idea, clear confusion in my mind. As far as personal values go, I have my values, but I'm usually pretty upfront if I feel someone crossed them. If not, then I steam over it for a while and it bothers me more that I am bothered by it than the person who crossed me. Based on what I was reading in discussions this seems more INFJ like than INFP? Then again I find the variations in answers about the INFP/ INFJ very confusing overall. Some answers have it clear cut and others have it more vague. There seem to be so many contradictions.

I'm left confused. Could it be that I am misunderstanding what makes a perceiver and incorrectly assuming because I don't match all things in a question that it rules me out?
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IMHO, J vs P is a terrible way to determine type. It will just confuse the picture. Look at cognitive functions instead.
For those who are determined to make it be all about dichotomies, good luck... because very few people fit neatly into either category, especially introverts.

I am a long term planner, short term disorganized mess. I procrastinate most whenever I feel overwhelmed and overly perfectionistic. But I can also procrastinate because I am focusing intensely on something else and don't want to stop doing it.
I am goal oriented and need to maintain a certain amount of structure, but the steps along the way are sometimes put off until the last possible second, and I don't like these steps to be rigidly defined. Yet the big picture always somehow gets pulled together.
 
infinite dreams said:
This INTP does that sometimes too, but instead of a cutting, insightful, well-formed idea, my solution comes out sounding like a dying jackass yodeling the Star Spangled Banner.

Ti/Ne "group verbal communication," hurr durr.
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I'm very curious. Are you at your best pulling everything together, last minute? I'm at peak energy and creativity during these periods.

Is this P, Ne...?
 
Lurk said:
I'm very curious. Are you at your best pulling everything together, last minute? I'm at peak energy and creativity during these periods.

Is this P, Ne...?
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Yes and...sort of yes. I think the reason for it is more Ti wanting absolutely ALL the information it can gather before making a firm decision. This information being gathered and processed through Ne/Si.

The funny thing is that although Ti is normally a slow burn toward crafting ideas, it's actually a very quick-acting function once things fall into place. It can make me efficient at a superhuman level, especially at work under deadlines when others are panicking. Of course, on the flipside it can also cause me to jump to irrational conclusions out of impatience to act under stress.
 
infinite dreams said:
Yes and...sort of yes. I think the reason for it is more Ti wanting absolutely ALL the information it can gather before making a firm decision. This information being gathered and processed through Ne/Si.

The funny thing is that although Ti is normally a slow burn toward crafting ideas, it's actually a very quick-acting function once things fall into place. It can make me efficient at a superhuman level, especially at work under deadlines when others are panicking. Of course, on the flipside it can also cause me to jump to irrational conclusions out of impatience to act under stress.
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This can't turn into a ZOMG yes exchange, but I am pleasantly surprised to hear our similarities!. I want to write a perfect response, so I'll get back to you.

Wow.
 
Lurk said:
I'm very curious. Are you at your best pulling everything together, last minute? I'm at peak energy and creativity during these periods.
Is this P, Ne...?
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Those are definitely not my best moments. And it does not happen as much now as it did during my college days.
What usually happened was something like this:
I would be working on a project of personal interest that would absorb 100% of my energy and attention. This project would probably involve exploring something large and abstract with minimal concrete benefits, but something that impacted my life on some kind of emotional level. I would have a boring, but difficult term paper coming up, and I would put that off in order to focus on interesting project. Time would somehow slip away, until I suddenly realize that it is the last minute and I haven't done much. Every bit of energy and concentration then focuses on the term paper, and I bury myself in it while I stress needlessly once again and berate myself for not planning better. I get it done, but I think of all the ways it could have been better. I HAVE to turn it in. And somehow I get an A on the paper anyway.
On the times when I would start early, I would find it difficult to focus, and my mind would wander constantly back to whatever it was that I really wanted to work on. It seemed that I needed that adrenaline burst to jump start my creativity IF it was something boring that I really didn't want to do.
For a time, I did consider that maybe I was INTP because of the P characteristics. But it does not fit. I do not think that I use Ne much. My ideas / thoughts / projects are always centered around one thing. One overarching theme that absorbs my concentration, sometimes for years at a time, while I explore every nuance of it. Ne moves in many directions. I also do not believe that my primary function is Ti. I do not seek to further define what is in any concrete way. I seek to understand and explore patterns and paradigms. That said, I do have the occasional tendency to get into a Ni-Ti loop...
 
Miswired7 said:
Those are definitely not my best moments. And it does not happen as much now as it did during my college days.
What usually happened was something like this:
I would be working on a project of personal interest that would absorb 100% of my energy and attention. This project would probably involve exploring something large and abstract with minimal concrete benefits, but something that impacted my life on some kind of emotional level. I would have a boring, but difficult term paper coming up, and I would put that off in order to focus on interesting project. Time would somehow slip away, until I suddenly realize that it is the last minute and I haven't done much. Every bit of energy and concentration then focuses on the term paper, and I bury myself in it while I stress needlessly once again and berate myself for not planning better. I get it done, but I think of all the ways it could have been better. I HAVE to turn it in. And somehow I get an A on the paper anyway.
On the times when I would start early, I would find it difficult to focus, and my mind would wander constantly back to whatever it was that I really wanted to work on. It seemed that I needed that adrenaline burst to jump start my creativity IF it was something boring that I really didn't want to do.
For a time, I did consider that maybe I was INTP because of the P characteristics. But it does not fit. I do not think that I use Ne much. My ideas / thoughts / projects are always centered around one thing. One overarching theme that absorbs my concentration, sometimes for years at a time, while I explore every nuance of it. Ne moves in many directions. I also do not believe that my primary function is Ti. I do not seek to further define what is in any concrete way. I seek to understand and explore patterns and paradigms. That said, I do have the occasional tendency to get into a Ni-Ti loop...
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I just do this:

I or E?
N or S?
F or T?
J or P?

Done.

I've demonstrated J-like behavior; every living P has it as well. You can tell because they are alive. I am very uncomfortable with planning at all, and you

I bury myself in it while I stress needlessly once again and berate myself for not planning better. I get it done, but I think of all the ways it could have been better. I HAVE to turn it in. And somehow I get an A on the paper anyway.
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seem like a J. Finding it hard to concentrate probably isn't related to type.

I'm betting INFJ, fwiw. :)
 
I ultimately reached the same conclusion re INFJ . But it was a long journey made longer by seeing myself as a P because of procrastination and disorganization. Thank you for the input.
 
Miswired7 said:
I ultimately reached the same conclusion re INFJ . But it was a long journey made longer by seeing myself as a P because of procrastination and disorganization. Thank you for the input.
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You sort of are a “P” since your dominant function, Ni, is a Perceiving function. :)

“P vs J” in regards to MBTI only refers to whether your highest stacked extroverted function handles Judging or Perceiving.
 
infinite dreams said:
You sort of are a “P” since your dominant function, Ni, is a Perceiving function. :)

“P vs J” in regards to MBTI only refers to whether your highest stacked extroverted function handles Judging or Perceiving.
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Exactly . Which is why socionics does a better job of categorizing cognitive patterns than MBTI. Dichotomies alone do not work. Type can "change" from time to time based on mood or circumstance. Using dichotomies, I am highly intuitive, slightly feeling, and slightly perceiving. Yet I do not relate to INFP descriptions at all. I can get along with Fi types, but unless they are very healthy and mature, I find them annoying and draining. Too much focus on individual feelings and values. Yet feeling is the dominant function for INFPs, so based on dichotomies, I must be a dominant feeler... did not fit. I considered INTP, and in some ways it was more relatable, but that was also a bad fit. It wasn't until I understood functions and Ni-Fe vs Fi-Ne that the puzzle pieces all fell into place and I had a big aha moment in classic Ni style.
 
infinite dreams said:
You sort of are a “P” since your dominant function, Ni, is a Perceiving function. :)
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One thing I still feel weird about is replying to a thread that started six months ago (or five years) and hasn't been responded to in a month. Back when I used to frequent the INTJ forum, I would have been lynched, I think...

Sorry if someone else has already said this, but I don't think P/J mean what we think it means. In Myers-Briggs speak, it doesn't have anything to do with lists or procrastination or whether or not we're late. It just says which cognitive function is extraverted. If you have a J, then F/T (Judging functions) is the first extraverted function. If you have a P, then N/S is the first extraverted function (Perceiving functions).

An INFJs first extraverted function is Feeling (Fe) - so J is tacked onto the end. ESFPs have Sensing as their first extraverted function (Se) so P is tacked onto the end. J can seem more decisive or rule-oriented or whatever than P because we extravert our judging function. But the interwebs like to translate that into behavior - so Js are on time and never procrastinate and have everything on a list. Ps are undependable sloths who will be late to their own funerals if anyone can even find their bodies in all the clutter.

Or perhaps I exaggerate...
 
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