Does getting inside someone's heart and head scare you?

XPD154

XPD154

Newbie
MBTI
INFJ
Enneagram
4
As a male INFJ, I find it easier the older I get to deep dive into someone, male or female because I have access to both pragmatism and emotion. I feel bad or guilty because I can (and have) caused a lot of damage or maybe some real good if I try hard and selflessly enough. Thoughts? Does it ever scare you or make you feel creepy that we can reach that person where they live, even by accident?
 
XPD154 said:
As a male INFJ, I find it easier the older I get to deep dive into someone, male or female because I have access to both pragmatism and emotion. I feel bad or guilty because I can (and have) caused a lot of damage or maybe some real good if I try hard and selflessly enough. Thoughts? Does it ever scare you or make you feel creepy that we can reach that person where they live, even by accident?
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*Where they live inside their own head I mean, get to the heart of the matter.
 
XPD154 said:
As a male INFJ, I find it easier the older I get to deep dive into someone, male or female because I have access to both pragmatism and emotion. I feel bad or guilty because I can (and have) caused a lot of damage or maybe some real good if I try hard and selflessly enough. Thoughts? Does it ever scare you or make you feel creepy that we can reach that person where they live, even by accident?
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As a system administrator I've had access to information that was critical to billions of dollars within a corporation. Equally, I've had access to processes that were critical to saving peoples lives. Never have I felt the need or desire to breach the confidence people have placed in me with respect to the opportunities I've been given. This is very similar to getting in the head of a person because it is a place of confidence and trust. I can't say that I have never breached this space because it is fluid and there is a level of push-pull required in every relationship. I have altered the thoughts and feelings of other people but in most cases, it has been to protect them from their self and in that regard I consider myself a bit of a monster, even if I like to consider myself something better [or more]. Still, this is the nature of our world, and I am a parity that most do not want to consider. Equally, there is the psychopath that is the exact opposite of the empath, and if I do not do my part, then that makes me wonder if I have truly been the person I'm suppose to be. I try not to feel guilty about such things because I am a Christian and I believe god gave me the gifts to do what serves "the kingdom." I know that I will fail and make mistakes, and in that regard I choose to continually ask for forgiveness from my monster, sinful nature. So, yeah, there is a bit of guilt but its relative to my station and souls growth, so I accept my self for what and who I am and hope that the world finds its balance.
 
There lies a vast universe between worldly power and spiritual authority, @XPD154 .
 
I’m unsure if we can ever truly see another, and it’s a life’s work to endeavor to see oneself without getting caught in the briar and bramble.

Regardless, were I to do so, I would only witness, and not strive to hold, or change. Nor would I seek to trespass, or run roughshod over boundary.

Maybe this is Ne talking, but discovery is greater than knowing, so dwell in mystery a little longer.

The mind is capricious and clever, so be prudent and discern whether one is witnessing, or seeing what one wants, expects, or fears to see.

Cheers,
Ian
 
TomasM said:
As a system administrator I've had access to information that was critical to billions of dollars within a corporation. Equally, I've had access to processes that were critical to saving peoples lives. Never have I felt the need or desire to breach the confidence people have placed in me with respect to the opportunities I've been given. This is very similar to getting in the head of a person because it is a place of confidence and trust. I can't say that I have never breached this space because it is fluid and there is a level of push-pull required in every relationship. I have altered the thoughts and feelings of other people but in most cases, it has been to protect them from their self and in that regard I consider myself a bit of a monster, even if I like to consider myself something better [or more]. Still, this is the nature of our world, and I am a parity that most do not want to consider. Equally, there is the psychopath that is the exact opposite of the empath, and if I do not do my part, then that makes me wonder if I have truly been the person I'm suppose to be. I try not to feel guilty about such things because I am a Christian and I believe god gave me the gifts to do what serves "the kingdom." I know that I will fail and make mistakes, and in that regard I choose to continually ask for forgiveness from my monster, sinful nature. So, yeah, there is a bit of guilt but its relative to my station and souls growth, so I accept my self for what and who I am and hope that the world finds its balance.
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I just mean like I can really touch people or really hurt them emotionally and I've been a little irresponsible. I didn't have enough respect for my own cruelty.
 
I mean for example, I typed my buddy, got his Myers-Briggs and Enneagram perfectly. I knew exactly what to get him for Christmas - exactly. I'm scared now because I could really hurt him if I'm not careful. I got him to open up to me like no one else. I was only trying to be nice and be his friend - truly, but I think I bit off more than I can chew. Now, I feel like I have this responsibility towards him. If I hurt him, he may never trust anyone again. I feel like I'm walking around in his head and maybe I shouldn't be. He said he doesn't care, but I don't think he realizes how vulnerable he is. I've found out so much about him and I'm untrained in psychology and I'm trying to be careful with him. That's what I'm talking about. We see too much sometimes.
 
XPD154 said:
I mean for example, I typed my buddy, got his Myers-Briggs and Enneagram perfectly. I knew exactly what to get him for Christmas - exactly. I'm scared now because I could really hurt him if I'm not careful. I got him to open up to me like no one else. I was only trying to be nice and be his friend - truly, but I think I bit off more than I can chew. Now, I feel like I have this responsibility towards him. If I hurt him, he may never trust anyone again. I feel like I'm walking around in his head and maybe I shouldn't be. He said he doesn't care, but I don't think he realizes how vulnerable he is. I've found out so much about him and I'm untrained in psychology and I'm trying to be careful with him. That's what I'm talking about. We see too much sometimes.
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This is a learning opportunity. Some people learn from their own mistakes and some people learn from the mistakes of others. Some learn from both - which do you think this will be? It seem like you already understand the power you have but you seem a little drunk on it.
 
TomasM said:
This is a learning opportunity. Some people learn from their own mistakes and some people learn from the mistakes of others. Some learn from both - which do you think this will be? It seem like you already understand the power you have but you seem a little drunk on it.
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I just feel very deeply for my buddy - no homo (that would cheapen it).
 
XPD154 said:
I didn't have enough respect for my own cruelty.
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People can sometimes surprise you with their resilience
But also, learning to wield whatever powers one holds with responsibility and respect is an integral part of the path toward maturity
 
ThomasJ79 said:
There is very little in life that compares to the deep, vulnerable connection between two souls.
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Dude oh my gosh, and he's an ISTP. We had a falling out and made up and we're good now, I would say even better off after knowing what it was like to lose each other. I swear, I have never felt a whole spectrum of intense emotions like this. And it's embarrassing cause we're both straight, masculine guys so we try to be discreet so we don't humiliate each other or make other people talk. We're surrounded by a bunch of dirty minded old women, so we can't go too heavy on the bromance, but its there. We don't hug, we don't say I love you, but we don't have to.

For example, he likes tattoos. I hate them, but I just got my first one three days ago. It's only visible in blacklight though. I compromised for him.
And he opens up to me. He's and ISTP that lets me in. I know how hard that is for him.
Stuff like that. He likes action based loyalty, and I get that connection high that INFJ's crave. It's all we need from each other.
 
@XPD154 I think the ethics are pretty simple if we strip them down to the bare bones. If you were a 15 stone professional wrestler and your friend was a nine stone intellectual then would it be right to assault him and break his arm? The same rules apply with emotional power and insight too - badly hurting another who is much weaker than you in this regard is wrong, without just cause. It's harder to see the reality of this because physical differences are much easier to see and understand than differences in your strength of emotional insight.

But I wonder as I read your concerns whether you are aware that the risk you are worrying about is a twofold one. People of INFJ type are notorious for bringing others they care about too far into their own souls, which is how we can have such deep insights about them. The risk for us is that we let them into our core, and that can lead to all sorts of problems for us - of losing the ability to distinguish their emotions from our own for example, and even of softening the edges of our sense of identity. At its worst this can lead to an interdependence between the two of you, their problems become ours, and this leads to all kinds of problems for both of you. This happens of course most often when you use your gifts to rescue them in the wrong ways, but it can also happen when you are abusive to them too, because the interdependence is rooted in the emotional deeps and is non-rational.
 
John K said:
@XPD154 I think the ethics are pretty simple if we strip them down to the bare bones. If you were a 15 stone professional wrestler and your friend was a nine stone intellectual then would it be right to assault him and break his arm? The same rules apply with emotional power and insight too - badly hurting another who is much weaker than you in this regard is wrong, without just cause. It's harder to see the reality of this because physical differences are much easier to see and understand than differences in your strength of emotional insight.

But I wonder as I read your concerns whether you are aware that the risk you are worrying about is a twofold one. People of INFJ type are notorious for bringing others they care about too far into their own souls, which is how we can have such deep insights about them. The risk for us is that we let them into our core, and that can lead to all sorts of problems for us - of losing the ability to distinguish their emotions from our own for example, and even of softening the edges of our sense of identity. At its worst this can lead to an interdependence between the two of you, their problems become ours, and this leads to all kinds of problems for both of you. This happens of course most often when you use your gifts to rescue them in the wrong ways, but it can also happen when you are abusive to them too, because the interdependence is rooted in the emotional deeps and is non-rational.
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I can see how all that would happen and I appreciate the warning, but if you don't have love you have nothing and there is no greater love than a man laying down his life for his friends. I've made my choice. I'll risk all that for him. It's worth the danger to me.
 
In my experience I've found this necessary to probe the minds of people to determine if the interaction is worth the effort and time never mind have trust in anyone as people these days are not only fickle but absolutely two faced at times. I am tired of my kindness and good will being taken advantage of to only be back stabbed later on then there is the gossip. The usual psychology out there in society is toxic. A Lot of people lie about who they really are and there is so much masking, they even lie to themselves.
 
I love you guys. You make cool talking points. I didn't mean to make everyone go "aaawwweee" with my random venting about my buddy. I'm a little embarrassed now.

But yeah, I think we all need to be aware of what we can potentially do. Once you make that connection, you can hurt somebody, but you can also help somebody. Honestly, this whole experience makes me want to do the typical male-INFJ thing and get my master's in counseling. I need training. Like I may have to. I'm not a child. I can't leave a path of emotional damage in my wake and say, "Well, I didn't mean to." I have to be more accountable than that.
 
Roses In The Vineyard said:
In my experience I've found this necessary to probe the minds of people to determine if the interaction is worth the effort and time never mind have trust in anyone as people these days are not only fickle but absolutely two faced at times. I am tired of my kindness and good will being taken advantage of to only be back stabbed later on then there is the gossip. The usual psychology out there in society is toxic. A Lot of people lie about who they really are and there is so much masking, they even lie to themselves.
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I do use it for that as well, but only for the dangerous ones that are out to hurt others.
 
That was eight days ago. Really?
 
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