Does Yahweh/Jesus live by the Golden Rule?

Jonah Caan said:
God and Jesus are nowhere near on the same level for me.

For me, Jesus is simply a man, one of the greatest that ever lived and possibly my favourite person of all time. But a man. I think he exemplified the purest of love and I would say from what I have read about him in both the Bible and Quran that yes he did live by the golden rule, and then some.

I don't think God needs to live by any rule that men live by. But my understanding of God is that He is All-Good.

I believe this life is a test for us and therefore hurdles have been placed within it for us by God so that we may be tested thereby and grow; to refine our souls as much as we can. And those souls which are most refined are the ones that will achieve the reward that is Heaven.
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I agree with some of what you are saying. But I have a problem with Jesus being one of the greatest men. I would think a true leader and ambassador of God would want to direct people towards God. It seems like Jesus diverted all the attention to himself.
I think the fact that Christians center on him so much is because, c'mon it's so much easier to have a relationship with a human being who had similar experiences etc to you then to a trancendent God. INFJ's might find such a relationship easier, but the vast majority of human beings - why stretch to have a relationship with a God you can never understand if all you need to do is believe in Jesus and have a relationship with him. Yeah, it's probably a step forward from paganism, but that's it.
Rant over :).
 
hithere said:
I agree with some of what you are saying. But I have a problem with Jesus being one of the greatest men. I would think a true leader and ambassador of God would want to direct people towards God. It seems like Jesus diverted all the attention to himself.
I think the fact that Christians center on him so much is because, c'mon it's so much easier to have a relationship with a human being who had similar experiences etc to you then to a trancendent God. INFJ's might find such a relationship easier, but the vast majority of human beings - why stretch to have a relationship with a God you can never understand if all you need to do is believe in Jesus and have a relationship with him. Yeah, it's probably a step forward from paganism, but that's it.
Rant over :).
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Christians believe Jesus was/is God, or that Jesus is God manifest in the flesh. In the Bible, he says, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Christians believe in the Trinity of God the father, son and holy spirit. All the same God, just different expressions of the divine in Christianity.
 
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acd said:
Christians believe Jesus was/is God, or that Jesus is God manifest in the flesh. In the Bible, he says, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Christians believe in the Trinity of God the father, son and holy spirit. All the same God, just different expressions of the divine in Christianity.
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Thanks for the response. Yes, I know that.
The trinity makes no sense to me. It feels like apologetics for something that just can't be as one does not equal three. I respect all human beings and everyone has the right to their own beliefs even if I cannot comprehend them.
Anyway, I think the trinity idea came later on after Jesus was was crucified. Is that right?
When Christians focus on Jesus as the only way to God it doesn't feel like their focus is on God. It feels so narrow in a way. If God is one why do you need three?
Don't bother answering me :). My questions are kind of rhetorical. I know some of the typical Christian responses already.
Blessings to you and yours always!
 
hithere said:
Thanks for the response. Yes, I know that.
The trinity makes no sense to me. It feels like apologetics for something that just can't be as one does not equal three. I respect all human beings and everyone has the right to their own beliefs even if I cannot comprehend them.
Anyway, I think the trinity idea came later on after Jesus was was crucified. Is that right?
When Christians focus on Jesus as the only way to God it doesn't feel like their focus is on God. It feels so narrow in a way. If God is one why do you need three?
Don't bother answering me :). My questions are kind of rhetorical. I know some of the typical Christian responses already.
Blessings to you and yours always!
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Can't answer any of those questions anyway because I still have many of my own questions. :laughing:
Just thought I'd chime in because I didn't see that side represented. It's just not how Christians view Jesus.
 
hithere said:
Thanks for the response. Yes, I know that.
The trinity makes no sense to me. It feels like apologetics for something that just can't be as one does not equal three. I respect all human beings and everyone has the right to their own beliefs even if I cannot comprehend them.
Anyway, I think the trinity idea came later on after Jesus was was crucified. Is that right?
When Christians focus on Jesus as the only way to God it doesn't feel like their focus is on God. It feels so narrow in a way. If God is one why do you need three?
Don't bother answering me :). My questions are kind of rhetorical. I know some of the typical Christian responses already.
Blessings to you and yours always!
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Are you familiar with set theory?
 
hithere said:
No I'm not.
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Well I'm not a Christian myself, though I see it as a valid spiritual system, but my understanding of the trinity is via the fundamental symbolism of number. Maybe it will interest you, maybe it won't, but you seem overly closed to whatever truths the trinity can reveal:

Deleted member 16771 said:
@John K @sassafras Like this:
View attachment 65936

This 'special three' is not the 'number three', though, because it's the bipolar product (1+1=2). It's the 'set theory three', and I think this sort of thinking will appeal to you, John, for a host of reasons. Not only religiously, but in terms of Russel-esque fundamental mathematics/number.

And now we can say:
The One is the Three, and the Three the One.
The One is the Two, and the Two the One

Origin and Product, Alpha and Omega, Father and Son @Milktoast Bandit @mintoots

P.S. And in the symbol above (well, not that, because it looks like a big, googly-eyed face) we can trace the horizontal line through the bipolar (World), and the vertical/transcendent to the One/Three (Divine).
View attachment 65938
Resulting in the Cross... :unamused: Damn Christianity again, lol.
View attachment 65939
I'm just experimenting with proportion here.

Before, with the original formulation, I was able to scribe rectangles in Golden Ratio, but now there's symmetry in two planes.
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Deleted member 16771 said:
Well I'm not a Christian myself, though I see it as a valid spiritual system, but my understanding of the trinity is via the fundamental symbolism of number. Maybe it will interest you, maybe it won't, but you seem overly closed to whatever truths the trinity can reveal:
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Thanks for posting.
It's a bit over my head, to be honest. I was never very good at math although I enjoyed learning if it can be explained really clearly. I do feel strongly about certain things but I'm pretty curious and love hearing others perspectives. I can get argumentative but I don't mean it personally.
 
TheFool said:
For me it is all about symbols and metaphors. What is written in New Testament is nothing new. Only the name of the character is different regarding to the actual message been told.

There was once a time when the movement of stars and yearly seasons ruled people’s lives. Encoded tales were told for generations to guide and remind people about the physical and “spiritual” aspects of life. Back in the days the OGs weren’t talking about beliefs. They shared their own direct experiences.
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Pretty much this.
 
hithere said:
Thanks for posting.
It's a bit over my head, to be honest. I was never very good at math although I enjoyed learning if it can be explained really clearly. I do feel strongly about certain things but I'm pretty curious and love hearing others perspectives. I can get argumentative but I don't mean it personally.
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Ok, I checked out set theory online, and I get a bit what you were saying.
However, it seems to me that the one thing we would not be able to apply set theory to would be the Divine source of everything.
 
hithere said:
Rant over :).
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I don't think that was a rant at all, I loved reading it; made me ponder.

I'm trying to see how you think Jesus diverted all the attention to himself; is this something you've concluded from the Bible? I don't find the same to be true within The Quran which followed it:

"They have certainly disbelieved who say, "God is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with God – God has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers."

(5:72)

But I remember some verses from The Bible too (such as the one below) which also show that Jesus directed people towards God:

"And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth."

(Luke 11:2)

Also you have to remember that Jesus only became a deity of sorts in Christianity over 300 years after his birth. I see the same pattern emerging with Muhammad (PBUH) in Islam. Nowadays a significant number of Muslims are beginning to believe he was made out of a special light and some pray to him. It's weird to me because that constitutes the most severe sin in the religion, polytheism:

"O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about God except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of God and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in God and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist – it is better for you. Indeed, God is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is God as Disposer of affairs."

(4:171)

I love your thinking in regards to it being so much easier to have a relationship with a human being who had similar experiences and so on. I've never thought about it like that and it rings true in my mind too:)

But I guess therein is the test; that leap of faith.

Thank you for your reply; I've enjoyed both reading and answering it immensely.
 
Jonah Caan said:
I don't think that was a rant at all, I loved reading it; made me ponder.

I'm trying to see how you think Jesus diverted all the attention to himself; is this something you've concluded from the Bible? I don't find the same to be true within The Quran which followed it:

"They have certainly disbelieved who say, "God is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with God – God has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers."

(5:72)

But I remember some verses from The Bible too (such as the one below) which also show that Jesus directed people towards God:

"And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth."

(Luke 11:2)

Also you have to remember that Jesus only became a deity of sorts in Christianity over 300 years after his birth. I see the same pattern emerging with Muhammad (PBUH) in Islam. Nowadays a significant number of Muslims are beginning to believe he was made out of a special light and some pray to him. It's weird to me because that constitutes the most severe sin in the religion, polytheism:

"O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about God except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of God and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in God and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist – it is better for you. Indeed, God is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is God as Disposer of affairs."

(4:171)

I love your thinking in regards to it being so much easier to have a relationship with a human being who had similar experiences and so on. I've never thought about it like that and it rings true in my mind too:)

But I guess therein is the test; that leap of faith.

Thank you for your reply; I've enjoyed both reading and answering it immensely.
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Thanks for that detailed reply.
I'm totally with you on the absolute oneness of G-d. However, regarding Jesus, I am coming from a Jewish background, so my perspective is probably different than yours. The hallmark of a true Jewish leader was always humility, and yes I know Christians etc apply humility to Jesus. However, for Jews the litmus test for humility would be to annul yourself before G-d's will. Jesus however changed the word of G-d to the extent that he professed to be the ultimate authority in what he still deemed to be Jewish law. To me, that is diverting attention from G-d's word and will and placing yourself as the "savior" of the people. So, yes, that "saviorship" grew out of control with people later ascribing divinity to him. But it had to start somewhere.

That's my understanding as of now.
 
God spoke: “Let us make human beings in our image, make them
reflecting our nature
So they can be responsible for the fish in the sea,
the birds in the air, the cattle,
And, yes, Earth itself,
and every animal that moves on the face of Earth.”
God created human beings;
he created them godlike,
Reflecting God’s nature.
He created them male and female.
Genesis 1,26

Why we are bad if God is good?
I was always wondering that
 
h
Themis said:
Why we are bad if God is good?
I was always wondering that
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I think we ARE essentially good because like you said we are created in God's image. However we have the ability to make choices and we sometimes get stuck between good and bad, function and dysfunction. In Judaism there is this concept of a " yetzer hara" which means the dysfunctional advisor or is often translated as the evil inclination. I see it as the ego.
We need to quiet the ego/ the evil inclination and tune into who we REALLY are and recognize our true infinite value that we have by virtue of simply existing.
The point of our journey here is that constant struggle between good and bad, to cut through the layers and get in touch with our true Godly self.
It says " Sheva yipol tzadik vkam" a righteous person falls (even) seven times and gets up. Good doesn't mean perfect. Even righteous people fail. But part of what makes them righteous is their ability to pick themselves up after they stumble and continue on.

As humans the beauty is in the struggle.


Here is a link to one of my favorite songs that alludes to this idea. It's in Hebrew but there should be a translation in the comments.

 
hithere said:
h

I think we ARE essentially good because like you said we are created in God's image. However we have the ability to make choices and we sometimes get stuck between good and bad, function and dysfunction. In Judaism there is this concept of a " yetzer hara" which means the dysfunctional advisor or is often translated as the evil inclination. I see it as the ego.
We need to quiet the ego/ the evil inclination and tune into who we REALLY are and recognize our true infinite value that we have by virtue of simply existing.
The point of our journey here is that constant struggle between good and bad, to cut through the layers and get in touch with our true Godly self.
It says " Sheva yipol tzadik vkam" a righteous person falls (even) seven times and gets up. Good doesn't mean perfect. Even righteous people fail. But part of what makes them righteous is their ability to pick themselves up after they stumble and continue on.

As humans the beauty is in the struggle.


Here is a link to one of my favorite songs that alludes to this idea. It's in Hebrew but there should be a translation in the comments.

Click to expand...

You are close to my philosophical thoughts.
After many years of research i got in the conclusion that humans are God. Our Ego doesn't let as see this, we create God to calm our vulnerability and feed our Ego.
In the bible is many times written the similarity of god and human, but nowadays religions try to separate God from human.
Nietzsche wrote that God died, he meant the human. when our Ego dies and only then we can reach God
 
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