Drug Bust at Columbia University

If they were dealing in more of the hardcore drugs and narcotics, then I have a lo less sympathy. But I have to agree with CDM, the student may have been intelligent but this was just dumb.

Risking his life and career over some money.
 
K-gal said:
IMO - people should have the right to do their drug(s) of choice as long as they are adults and realize what they're doing to their body/brain. On the other hand - I am very much against teenagers doing any kind of chemical where it inhibits the brain functioning. The long term affects can be life long.
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Now the question is how do you achieve that? Telling them no and hiding it until they are out of their parents sphere of influence rarely works.

IMO methamphetimine is the worst drug ever made for it's addictive quality and destruction of the brain/body.
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Yet most major ADD/ADHD medications are derivatives of Meth and the last line of medical treatment for ADD/ADHD is meth...
 
Kavalan said:
Now the question is how do you achieve that? Telling them no and hiding it until they are out of their parents sphere of influence rarely works.


Yet most major ADD/ADHD medications are derivatives of Meth and the last line of medical treatment for ADD/ADHD is meth...
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I agree - hiding it never works. Also that message of: "Do as I say - Not as I do" doesn't work either.

Real true education on what the different drugs do to the brain/mind would go a long way - though - for allowing teens to make an informed decision. I'm not talking about the government funded bullshit either. I mean for YEARS they told everyone that smoking pot led to addiction of the heavy drugs and they pushed this out there everywhere. Yet when people looked around themselves as saw it wasn't true - well - then one wondered what else wasn't true.

The same goes for adults as well. Real, true knowledge could help adults as well. But the one's in control really don't want the majority educated - it seems - so they keep it out of mainstream information. There's too much money to be made on the backs of the populace - and the ones addicted - are the best to make money on. Drugs, alcohol, sex, gambling, buying things one day only to throw it out a month later because they're bored. The list goes on and on.

When I interned at a mental health facility I found out there are correlations between doing crack and developing schizophrenia. If teens were shown that - and allowed to meet someone with it and see first hand what schiziphrenia is like - they may stay clear of it till they're older. Even doing pot, in a heavy way, while one is 13 - to 16 often keeps a teen from learning how to deal with their intense emotions. Later on in life - they develop mental health disorders and their quality of life rapidly declines.

One of the problems is - like discussing how NOT to get pregnant is perceived as knowledg about having sex ( we mustn't talk about sex - they'll WANT to do it) - they will not discuss doing drugs in a rational manner. It's more about you're a bad person if you do - don't do it. It's against the law and you'll go to jail. Bad things will happen. And it's hush hush and hidden and then the dealer comes up and says - wanna have a good time? And - well - you know how the rest of that story goes.

The teen has never seen jail, doesn't know anyone who's been in jail, doesn't know how much a person can lose in this country by just being in jail. Because no one teaches them the long term ramifications of doing chemicals when they're young.

I've always been one to tell teens - watch what you do now - for it may limit your choices in the future. And you WANT to have choices - don't you? Teens are not stupid. They know when a person is telling them the truth in a caring way.

As for meth - yes - a person with ADD/ADHD really thrives on an amphetimine derivative. I get that. The brain is missing a chemical that helps one focus and get energy. Yet meth itself given to the average individual can mess up their ability to focus for years after they quit taking the drug. And dopamine production is practically non-existent for months to years after that too. No dopamine practically takes away a persons will to live. It is very devasting....
 
I dunno how dumb them doing that really was. Back were I went to school getting caught selling drugs basically met getting a slap on the wrist at least the first time around.
 
medical dosages of amphetamines range from 5mg-20mg.
Abuser range 100mg-1g

at the 5mg-20mg it has an increased alertness, that is not exclusive to those whom have add/adhd.
It is akin to a glass of wine being good for you a day and the ill effects of a bottle of wine over the same duration. All about concentrations.

Of the drugs used I think the amphetamine subset is truly the worst and shouldn't be used period.
 
Kavalan said:
Of the drugs used I think the amphetamine subset is truly the worst and shouldn't be used period.
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I saw a documentary on Meth and this one town thats been taken over by making/using it, and how people using it just seem to disintegrate in a few years. Scary shit.

Also, people who use anything while pregnant need to have their kids taken and them shot. No excuse for that behaviour, its stopped being a "my body" and mostly victimless crime to permanently ruining a childs life before they were even born.
 
Amphetamines are just dangerous no matter how you spin it to be honest. It's amazing how the simple addition of a single methyl group to a compound changes it SO much. I will illustrate this using two example compounds, both illegal hallucinogenic drugs in the class of compounds called phenylethylamines.

This is the drug known as 2C-B. It has an active dose around 30mg or so. It takes around an hour to kick in. The effects last around 6 hours and has minimal side effects. It is possible to OD on, but the od limit is high.

Then you have this compounds DOB. The difference from 2-CB you add a single methyl group, alpha to the amine. This effectively makes this an amphetamine. The active dose of this compound is around a single miligram to 2mg. It takes around 3 hours to kick in (leading people to thinking it isn't working, thus taking more). The effects last around 30 hours. The effects are similar to 2C-B. The difference is they are much stronger, more physical in nature, and last much longer. Further, this compound has a wide range of side effects, and the OD limit for it is only around 10mg. OD on this can cause vaseoconstriction to the point where it can lead to gangrene, lost of limb, even death.

Amphtemines are risky things no matter how they are spun, and it just takes one single change from a relatively safe group of compounds.
 
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Drugs alter our perceptions, that is why they are illegal.

The government permits alcohol but that is a depressant.

The government forbids adults to eat certain mushrooms that grow naturally. They tell us what we can and can't put in our bodies. That is clearly absurd!

The reason is simple: they do not want people seeing things in new ways. They do not want people to open up their minds. They do not want people to question the status quo.

Drug laws are absurd and make criminals of many otherwise respectable and law abiding citizens and they simply exist as a further control on the people.
 
muir said:
Drugs alter our perceptions, that is why they are illegal.

The government permits alcohol but that is a depressant.

The government forbids adults to eat certain mushrooms that grow naturally. They tell us what we can and can't put in our bodies. That is clearly absurd!

The reason is simple: they do not want people seeing things in new ways. They do not want people to open up their minds. They do not want people to question the status quo.

Drug laws are absurd and make criminals of many otherwise respectable and law abiding citizens and they simply exist as a further control on the people.
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Drugs don't open up your mind, at best they give you a good time or make relieve you of your pain at worst they kill you.
 
Barnabas said:
Drugs don't open up your mind, at best they give you a good time or make relieve you of your pain at worst they kill you.
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I'm going to assume you personally have a few psychedelic experiences under your belt then to make this absolute sort of declaration.
 
neptunesguns said:
I'm going to assume you personally have a few psychedelic experiences under your belt then to make this absolute sort of declaration.
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Nope, Just plenty of second hand experiences.
 
I truly don't understand taking these kinds of risks.

This situation has all kinds of sad/unfortunate stamped across it.
 
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Barnabas said:
Nope, Just plenty of second hand experiences.
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Watching someone trip is entirely different than having the doors to your rational perception blow off their hinges.
 
corndogman said:
Im glad to see law breakers go to jail. Apperantly your friend isnt so brilliant.
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Why would anyone get satisfaction from this?

It seems kinda twisted.

I'm trying to understand why anyone would be happy or glad about something like this.

Where does that impulse come from?

You are far removed from those involved, so you have no emotional attachment. I get that.

They sell drugs, you dont sell drugs.
You follow the law, they dont.
You win for being good, they lose for being bad.
Justice is served.

Is that about it?

help me get it...

[MENTION=1848]Barnabas[/MENTION]
do some research
eat a mushroom
 
myself said:
@Barnabas
do some research
eat a mushroom
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This is kinda of rude to say, be mindful of that. You should also know that it's not a good idea to suggest doing something like shrooms to someone who is not interested, nor would like it.
 
mf said:
Watching someone trip is entirely different than having the doors to your rational perception blow off their hinges.
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Yeah, was gonna say this, but it seemed entirely pointless. His mind is obviously made up if he thinks that a 2nd hand experience is even remotely comparable.
 
Barnabas said:
Drugs don't open up your mind, at best they give you a good time or make relieve you of your pain at worst they kill you.
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neptunesguns said:
I'm going to assume you personally have a few psychedelic experiences under your belt then to make this absolute sort of declaration.
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mf said:
Watching someone trip is entirely different than having the doors to your rational perception blow off their hinges.
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Well I've had a few experiences and I'm inclined to agree with Barnabas. Drugs never "open your mind", your mind is already open. What drugs do is alter your perception of reality, thereby changing you. You're not in control of your body anymore as you're not yourself.

The "drugs kill" argument is mostly a non-issue though. Some are highly addictive and slowly destroy you but anyone of sound mind should know to avoid them like the plague. The rest just make you feel good, that is all.
 
88chaz88 said:
Well I've had a few experiences and I'm inclined to agree with Barnabas. Drugs never "open your mind", your mind is already open. What drugs do is alter your perception of reality, thereby changing you. You're not in control of your body anymore as you're not yourself.

The "drugs kill" argument is mostly a non-issue though. Some are highly addictive and slowly destroy you but anyone of sound mind should know to avoid them like the plague. The rest just make you feel good, that is all.
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well... not everyone does have an open mind

substances that we ingest do play a role in shaping our reality

adam and eve did it
 
I'm not sure I would say my LSD & Shroom trips opened my mind, but gave me another perspective, another way to interperate the world around me. Hard to describe and put into words.

It is never a good idea to pressure someone into doing a drug of any kind. Especially a hallucinogenic.
 
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