ENFJ Helpline

gloomy-optimist said:
do you think that, when they finally find that idealistic relationship they're looking for, they become afraid that it's too good to be true, and thus get scared and back out?
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From what I have seen, that is much more an ENFP thing. They become very self-destructive when they get into a "perfect" relationship, or at the very least they try to be.
 
Not so much self-destructive as a bit fearful, or insecure...as in, afraid that the other is "too good for me" or that it can't possibly be as good as it seems to be...I've seen that a few times in ENFJs (although the ones I've seen it in have been a little unsure of themselves)
 
OH! Ok, I got ya. In that case then yes I would say that sounds very ENFJ. I think that is just a product of an Ni/Fe combo (regardless of which comes first), overthinking coupled with idealism within people.
 
gloomy-optimist said:
ENFJs are very idealistic in relationships -- but do you think that, when they finally find that idealistic relationship they're looking for, they become afraid that it's too good to be true, and thus get scared and back out?
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No. An ENFJ will never back out of their idealistic relationship. In fact, quite the opposite. We'll stay in it far longer than anyone else would.

We back out of relationships when we realize they're not we hoped, before we decide they are 'the one'.

gloomy-optimist said:
How exactly are you supposed to appease an ENFJ?
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Give us everything we want? Hehe.

Actually, it's pretty simple. If you're reaching an impass with an ENFJ shoot straight with us. Stand up to us, and tell us what you need. We will respect your honesty, sincerity, and forthrightness. And because it is what you need, we will do everything in our power to give it to you.

Think of us like knights in shining armor. We can be very demanding, but your best interests are always our core motivation. Once you make that clear to us through all the armor and helmet, we are duty bound to comply with your wishes.
 
IndigoSensor said:
From what I have seen, that is much more an ENFP thing. They become very self-destructive when they get into a "perfect" relationship, or at the very least they try to be.
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Agreed. I've seen this with several NFP friends. One of them tests INFP, but I suspect she's an ENFP, and ambivert at minimum. Ne is designed around the possibilities. Ni is designed around finding the one truth. Fi is based on self focused feelings. Fe is based on feelings for others. NFPs are much more likely to behave this way, and NFJs are much more likely to behave the opposite.
 
gloomy-optimist said:
Not so much self-destructive as a bit fearful, or insecure...as in, afraid that the other is "too good for me" or that it can't possibly be as good as it seems to be...I've seen that a few times in ENFJs (although the ones I've seen it in have been a little unsure of themselves)
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IndigoSensor said:
OH! Ok, I got ya. In that case then yes I would say that sounds very ENFJ. I think that is just a product of an Ni/Fe combo (regardless of which comes first), overthinking coupled with idealism within people.
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Also agreed.

ENFPs seem to be prone to dropping their relationship investments.

ENFJs seem to be prone to not investing in relationships in the first place.
 
Okay, so in other words, you have to lure them to that one point where they have nothing more to doubt, and then you got 'em for the long term?

I can do that :)
 
Oh, don't worry, I don't mean lure in a manipulative sense. If I legitimately want a long-term relationship with someone, it's going to be sincere. I don't really think I can do it any other way.
 
I'm not sure if you're familiar with ENTJs, but is there a huge difference between ENTJs and ENFJs other than their dominant functions ? ...do people usually teeter on the F-T part of MBTI anyway ? Because I've come across more who can go both ways on the other letters [like J-P especially].
The reason I'm curious is..I asked my boyfriend to take a MBTI test for the first time several months before, and he got ENTJ [but he said he felt like he fit the profile about 80%]. After reading through the ENFJ profile you posted, I see him more as an ENFJ now. ..which could make some sense, since I feel so comfortable around him, and I generally don't get that same feeling interacting with real ENTJs.
 
Appoggiatura said:
I'm not sure if you're familiar with ENTJs, but is there a huge difference between ENTJs and ENFJs other than their dominant functions ? ...do people usually teeter on the F-T part of MBTI anyway ? Because I've come across more who can go both ways on the other letters [like J-P especially].
The reason I'm curious is..I asked my boyfriend to take a MBTI test for the first time several months before, and he got ENTJ [but he said he felt like he fit the profile about 80%]. After reading through the ENFJ profile you posted, I see him more as an ENFJ now. ..which could make some sense, since I feel so comfortable around him, and I generally don't get that same feeling interacting with real ENTJs.
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The J and P axis on the MBTI is rather problematic. I usually don't put much stock into it, actually. I primarily look at the N and S axis, and the F and T axis. The dominant and inferior functions of a type are usually the most polar axis, while the secondary and tertiary are the closest. They are a great way to determine type, because by putting them in order, we can quickly come to two most likely types. From there, I looks at the I and E axis to determine which of the two is the most likely.

ENFJs have the following function order: Fe, Ni, Se, Ti.
On the MBTI, they will commonly test very clearly F over T, and close to ambiguous on the N and S scale.

ENTJs have the following function order: Te, Ni, Se, Fi.
On the MBTI, they will commonly test very clearly T over F, and close to ambiguous on the N and S scale.

The thing to take into consideration with your friend is that he is male, which may cause him to choose answers that indicate T preferences more often than he actually does. Men are supposed to be more logical than sensitive. If he is Fe dominant and feels that this is the case, then he's much more likely to do so than most men.

Here is the best litmus I can come up with for ENFJ vs ENTJ:

ENFJs care about other people's feelings even if it makes things inefficient, and care more about doing what is right for everyone than what is correct for the situation.
ENTJs care about efficiency even if it this means putting people's feelings on hold, and care more about doing what is correct for the goal than what is morally right.

ENFJs are also much less concerned about the logic than the philosophy behind it, but when they are logical they are much better with understanding how things work than how they relate.
ENTJs are also much more concerned about the logic than the philosophy behind it, but when they are philospohical they are much better with understanding how things relate than how they work.

ENFJs are more likely to be focused on leading people to overcome immediete problems for the greater good than focused on leading them through a long term plan of efficiency.
ENTJs are more likely to be focused on leading people through a long term plan of efficiency than leading them to overcome immediete problems for the greater good.

I hope that helps! :-)
 
That was helpful Von Hase, thanks :) !

He leans more towards ENFJ now from your descriptions of the two.
 
My sister, when she was younger, tended to act more like an ENFJ, but as she got older her Te became very defined.

An ENFJ is generally more concerned with social roles (which may manifest in concern for personal appearance, social acceptance, how comfortable people around them are, etc) and an ENTJ will be more concerned with their goals and efficiency (will often have strong, stubborn personalities, be unaware or unconcerned about how people feel in the scheme of their plans, and be very focused on a project).
 
After reading through the thread, I think he's definitely an ENFJ, especially because of his view of relationships [it's even a little more idealistic than mine !]
Hm, though, perhaps he also has a developed Te too.
 
More likely a developed Ti -- if he works with both his Fe and Ti, it can come across as Te pretty easily
 
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This thread is sooo helpful, not only on yerms of the great insights into my boyfriend, but in helping me realize that my younger son--who tested ENFJ--probably *is* ENFJ despite his dx pf schizoaffective disorder. The relational stuff is particularly accurate as is his drive to help others even when that's made difficult by his disability. And, yes, he understood the questions on the test despite his cognitive deficits, none of which are in the verbal arena. In fact, his verbal skills are quite good. There are times his dx doesn't seem to fit his personality, except when he's acutely ill, and then it's obvious; but he's gone six years without a relapse (YAY!!!).
 
Thank God for this forum. HELP!!

I am an ENFJ and an opera singer. The man that I'm crazy about is an INFJ and a maestro. We've worked together for over three years and there has always been an electric attraction between us, though that attraction remained innocent since we were in relationships (though rather unhappy ones).

So, I recently became single and a friend told him how I feel. If it's possible, the connection became stronger than ever. I was waiting behind the curtain for Act 1 of the opera to begin and I caught him watching me from offstage where he thought he couldn't be seen. The next day, we locked eyes from opposite ends of a crowded hallway and it felt like years before we finally broke from it... it was all the confirmation I needed. Then in an ironic twist of fate, his girlfriend left him out of the blue. Now, he tells me he's too bitter and hurt to even consider a relationship right now. On one hand, he wonders what I even see in him. He thinks I'm hot (he is significantly older and not conventionally attractive in accordance with the social norms). He also respects me quite a bit - I performed an entire season fighting cancer 2 years ago). But then he listed off a ton of justifications, ranging from "what if we break up mid-season" to "it's probably just the music and my position". What do I do?! He's gone for three months right now. What would be the right approach when he gets back? Being patient and not doing anything? I feel helpless with that approach, but at the same time, I don't want to push him further away.

I would really appreciate any input you may have. I've never met anyone else like him and I'm overjoyed to find an entire forum of people who can relate with him and possibly help me to relate with him as well...
 
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Serendipity said:
Thank God for this forum. HELP!!

I am an ENFJ and an opera singer. The man that I'm crazy about is an INFJ and a maestro. We've worked together for over three years and there has always been an electric attraction between us, though that attraction remained innocent since we were in relationships (though rather unhappy ones).

So, I recently became single and a friend told him how I feel. If it's possible, the connection became stronger than ever. I was waiting behind the curtain for Act 1 of the opera to begin and I caught him watching me from offstage where he thought he couldn't be seen. The next day, we locked eyes from opposite ends of a crowded hallway and it felt like years before we finally broke from it... it was all the confirmation I needed. Then in an ironic twist of fate, his girlfriend left him out of the blue. Now, he tells me he's too bitter and hurt to even consider a relationship right now. On one hand, he wonders what I even see in him. He thinks I'm hot (he is significantly older and not conventionally attractive in accordance with the social norms). He also respects me quite a bit - I performed an entire season fighting cancer 2 years ago). But then he listed off a ton of justifications, ranging from "what if we break up mid-season" to "it's probably just the music and my position". What do I do?! He's gone for three months right now. What would be the right approach when he gets back? Being patient and not doing anything? I feel helpless with that approach, but at the same time, I don't want to push him further away.

I would really appreciate any input you may have. I've never met anyone else like him and I'm overjoyed to find an entire forum of people who can relate with him and possibly help me to relate with him as well...
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My best advice is to go with your gut and not your heart in this matter. Do what you feel is the right thing to do, and ignore the part of you that desires and fears this. However, that is so much more easily said than done in an instance like this. So...

If I were in his shoes, and the most beautiful girl I knew (judging from your avatar, that would definitely be you... WOW) was not only an ENFJ, but also a true talent, there is only one thing I would want - her to walk right up to me and kiss me like she has loved me her whole life.

I had a HUGE crush on an ENFJ at work once. The attraction between us was ridiculous. I wanted her so badly, and not just sexually. I wanted this girl to be my everything. But, I kept doing the kinds of things your guy is doing, in hopes that she would make the first move because I couldn't. One day she walked right into my office and said, "Hi honey," like we had been married for years. I melted so hard that I couldn't see straight, but I kept my cool. I really think she was expecting me to play off of her move and take things a step further. The fact that I couldn't, for a mutlitude of reasons, left us in a position where we couldn't hook up. If she would have followed that up with a kiss, I'd have married her on the spot.

Good luck, and if for some reason this doesn't work out (I can't see how it couldn't, you're amazing!) look me up! I'd be happy to be your consolation prize.

:m054:
 
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Haha, thanks. Good advice. I actually sent him a message a few days after he left because I was still irked that he thought I only had feelings for him because of the music and/or his position. I told him that I totally respect how he feels and where he stands, but that my feeling stem from "the little things"... when he practices his golf swing when he's bored, or the way he gestures when he's excited about something, or how fantastic he looks in a suit. I even told him that when it first hit me, he was actually annoyed about something. I said I wouldn't have felt right unless I told him this, regardless of the outcome, and not to worry about reiterating his thoughts...

He actually replied, telling me that he totally respects my feelings and their validity, and he was even curious when the moment was that he was annoyed. I replied back, telling him that it was when the music was cut off during rehearsal, as we were about to sing... It was the eye-roll ;)

That was where we left it a few weeks ago and haven't corresponded since. I still have hope that he may have a change of heart when he gets back. I guess I've watched too many old movies as a kid or something... We'll see!
 
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