ENFP or ENFJ

[foureyes]

true! ok I'll give way on ENFJ and ENFP been different, but I could also argue that any MBTI even with the same dominant function could be just as different and whos to say that someone couldn't swing between using extraverted intuition and feeling?

Hmm. . . well thank you so much for agreeing first of all!
Umm . . . well . . .(to your question) that's sort of what I mean by saying by the 16 distinct types. I don't think ( and perhaps my thoughts aren't the norm) you can be both Fe and Te at a time. Or at least not . . . hmm . . . yeah no I don't think a person can have both Fe and Te functions simultaneously. Like I think you just have your four main functions, I don't believe that people have all 8. So, I think that answered you question. I don't think that's possible and I think there are 16 distinct types.
Okay nvm I give up. I'm not capable of explaining what I really mean.

 

[smiffy]

Yeah, you can, I think to view it otherwise would be ridiculous. 6 Billion people and NO ONE can switch between the two? Like 6,000,000,000 have to fit into 16 types?



What do YOU think?

yeah I agree and believe not everyone fits neatly into 16 types! I think most people do, but there are people as I said who answering MBTI test after Test will come out as 2 personality types! while they cant function simultaneously I think they can switch on a day to day even an hour to hour basis, i dont think you can disprove me 4 eyes!

 

[smiffy]

I also think individual typing of friends is very big headed, to say that on observations you can nail someones type! I have gotten some of my best friends types wrong,

and the fact that we agree that they are a wide range of variance in every MBTI type then why do people continue to stereotype types in argument like one bad experience with one or two people of a specific type means all the type act the same way! its very big headed to put closure on opinions like that!

ok aware that has nothing to do with the thread! damn ENFP tangent

In closure I think I am an ENFP, but I do think that and ENFP/J hybrid is possible where the person does swing from one to the other as goat pointed out 6 billion people, we can't close of the possibility that it could happen.

I once had an argument about global warming with someone of the EXTX variety and she hit a point home that arguments are all about concrete proof and intution aside, and if you cant prove the otherside wrong then alls what you have is an opinion, an educated guess

she did my head in, but i learned alot from that, the worse thing was she believed in global warming but just wanted to argue

 

[foureyes]

yeah I agree and believe not everyone fits neatly into 16 types! I think most people do, but there are people as I said who answering MBTI test after Test will come out as 2 personality types! while they cant function simultaneously I think they can switch on a day to day even an hour to hour basis, i dont think you can disprove me 4 eyes!

yeah I guess I agree with that kind of to an extent. But I don't think most people are like that, sike who knows but maybe they are but what I was trying to say, I think more likely than swtiching your actual order of functions or whatever, I think it's more likely for a person to be an oddly developed . . . whatever their actual type is. Like for example, your functions are developed so that you act mostly exraverted, mostly intuitive, mostly feeling, and mostly percieving, BUT a person who is by order of their functions technically an INFP, they might score as being an ENFP on a test because they act more Extraverted, But they're actually an INFP. That's sort of what I think the case is with you here. Like you act like ENFP because those are the functions you have that are most developed and for most all practical purposes that is your type, but I also think that your base type, the type you began as, is your more technical type. And I think that you can identify that type by using the order of functioning to make the distinction, though I know what you mean. It's practically impossible to tell the difference between Feeling Dominant and Intuitive Dominant.

 

[foureyes]

I once had an argument about global warming with someone of the EXTX variety and she hit a point home that arguments are all about concrete proof and intution aside, and if you cant prove the otherside wrong then alls what you have is an opinion, an educated guess

she did my head in, but i learned alot from that, the worse thing was she believed in global warming but just wanted to argue

Moral of the story educated guessing is wrong?
Well, I'm a bit of a Rationalist I guess in that I think I can come to the truth by thinking things through enough. But I know that my thoughts can be and often are, particularly about things so conceptual as MBTI, wrong but that's why I'm careful to say "i think" and show how it is just my ideas and that no I don't have real "proof" to back it up. I think my thoughts are logical tho, and make sense, but then everyone thinks that so . . . Yeah you right.
I think tho that even a seemingly logical thought with no real proof to back it up should still be considered as a possibility.
And about Global Warming, not that I want to get into it, but there is undisputable data showing world wide temperature increase so . . . his argument about Global Warming being an educated guess is flat out wrong.
edit: Wow, that was painfull to reread. I'm sorry for rambling when I write and not talking the time to be clear and concise.

 

[smiffy]

yeah I guess I agree with that kind of to an extent. But I don't think most people are like that, sike who knows but maybe they are but what I was trying to say, I think more likely than swtiching your actual order of functions or whatever, I think it's more likely for a person to be an oddly developed . . . whatever their actual type is. Like for example, your functions are developed so that you act mostly exraverted, mostly intuitive, mostly feeling, and mostly percieving, BUT a person who is by order of their functions technically an INFP, they might score as being an ENFP on a test because they act more Extraverted, But they're actually an INFP. That's sort of what I think the case is with you here. Like you act like ENFP because those are the functions you have that are most developed and for most all practical purposes that is your type, but I also think that your base type, the type you began as, is your more technical type. And I think that you can identify that type by using the order of functioning to make the distinction, though I know what you mean. It's practically impossible to tell the difference between Feeling Dominant and Intuitive Dominant.

I don't think a natural intravert could act like me for the time I can keep it up for! but I can't disprove you! anyhows as seen below ENFJ/ENFP should act completely different as citied by you and yield

I believe there are people who can switch between extraverted feeling and intuition as a dominant function, by this list my extraverted feeling shouldn't really be used. I think the MBTI test is a good guideline but shouldnt be taken too literally! I believe that there is a human whos psychology cannot be boxed under a heading and told what his/ her dominant function is! anyhows this could go on a while and i'm not budging! also In no way shape or form can I be a INFP, it doesnt add up!


ENFP ENFJ

Primary Function Extraverted Intuition Extraverted feeling


Secondary Function Introverted Feeling intraverted intuition


Tertiary Function Extraverted Thinking extraverted sensing


Least Function Introverted Sensing intraverted thinking








INFP


Primary Function Introverted Feeling

Secondary Function Extraverted Intuition

Tertiary Function Introverted Sensing

Least Function Extraverted Thinking

 

[VH]

From what I've read here, you're most likely an ENFP, smiffy. Most of the ENFPs I know are amazing people, and it seems like you're one of them.

The MBTI is a test designed to indicate someone's Jungian cognitive function type, and certainly not infallible. Depending on the individual, and how they answered the self assessment questions, it is very possible for people of various types to get a result that is not actually their own type. Even though I most often score as INFJ, I've also gotten ENFJ, even ENFP, and INFP on the MBTI. My I and E are very close, but my J is a little stronger than my P. Sometimes it takes a little research and self discovery to narrow down one's actual type.

And of course, if there are only 16 types, that means the types are very broad and include a great deal of diversity. The thing to understand about them is that they're only based on how the mind is designed to prioritize, not the specifics of how a person thinks, and especially not what they think about. In my experience, they're nothing more than a slightly more detailed version of whether or not someone is right brained or left brained. They're just a description of which parts of the brain have more weight in an individual. And, just like with right and left brained people, the preference in no way implies that they don't also use the other parts of their brain. It's just a way of describing which parts we rely on most.

 

[smiffy]

Moral of the story educated guessing is wrong?
Well, I'm a bit of a Rationalist I guess in that I think I can come to the truth by thinking things through enough. But I know that my thoughts can be and often are, particularly about things so conceptual as MBTI, wrong but that's why I'm careful to say "i think" and show how it is just my ideas and that no I don't have real "proof" to back it up. I think my thoughts are logical tho, and make sense, but then everyone thinks that so . . . Yeah you right.
I think tho that even a seemingly logical thought with no real proof to back it up should still be considered as a possibility.
And about Global Warming, not that I want to get into it, but there is undisputable data showing world wide temperature increase so . . . his argument about Global Warming being an educated guess is flat out wrong.
edit: Wow, that was painfull to reread. I'm sorry for rambling when I write and not talking the time to be clear and concise.

haha I always go on a tangent and clear and concise arent my strengths, anyhow I know all about rising CO2 levels and the level of temperature showing a direct correlation and I won the argument on the fact that if you heat a box with C02 and a box of air with IR radiation the CO2 box will remain warmer for longer hence greenhouse effect! although I had the answer, it sort of showed me the psychology of getting a point across

anyhows I like to debate hence why I like the site! its good to have a discussion on some random stuff.

anyhows we agreed on not ruling out however unlikely a joint (or very very very close to joint primary function) which could mean all MBTI typing could go either way as in ENFJ or ENFP, anyhows think we resolved the debate!

 

[smiffy]

From what I've read here, you're most likely an ENFP, smiffy. Most of the ENFPs I know are amazing people, and it seems like you're one of them.

The MBTI is a test designed to indicate someone's Jungian cognitive function type, and certainly not infallible. Depending on the individual, and how they answered the self assessment questions, it is very possible for people of various types to get a result that is not actually their own type. Even though I most often score as INFJ, I've also gotten ENFJ, even ENFP, and INFP on the MBTI. My I and E are very close, but my J is a little stronger than my P. Sometimes it takes a little research and self discovery to narrow down one's actual type.

And of course, if there are only 16 types, that means the types are very broad and include a great deal of diversity. The thing to understand about them is that they're only based on how the mind is designed to prioritize, not the specifics of how a person thinks, and especially not what they think about. In my experience, they're nothing more than a slightly more detailed version of whether or not someone is right brained or left brained. They're just a description of which parts of the brain have more weight in an individual. And, just like with right and left brained people, the preference in no way implies that they don't also use the other parts of their brain. It's just a way of describing which parts we rely on most.

ok do you believe in someone that could use their right and left side of the brain so close to 50:50 that to an observer, even well trained observers that the observers may disagree on which side of the brain they use the most?

also I agree with a good amount if not all of your statement

 

[smiffy]

But dominant function has to do with the order of your thinking and perception so they would have to have a Dominant Function whether they could specify it or not.


Maybe you're an ESTJ then who is well developed with their N and F functions. That would make sense.

I'm not trying to bum you out by telling you no you're not and can not be an ENFP. I think for all practical purposes you are an ENFP. But I also think people have an orgin, which we describe as order of functions that doesn't really change too much, (though I agree that it can or rare occasion) that with which you can develope your other functions off of so much that you become another type. So, my big headed belief is that you are an ENFP with the order of functions of an ESTJ.
And also, I just wanna say that ALL types are wonderful people. Just cause your of a certain type doesn't mean that your a certain type of person. I, as I have said before, think ESTJ are the bomb.
I don't think ppl should favor anyone type over the other. I don't. And again these are just my ideas. I'm just telling them because I'm hoping they'll help clarify things for you and possibly others.

yeah I just came to that conclusion that even if you are very close to 50:50 you will always favour one slightly over the other hence the name and definition of dominant function, I also think do some people can be different personalitys at different times, hence when you are quite balanced between, does MBTI labelling really matter? if your ENFJ 51% of the time and ENFP 49% of the time?

but everyone does have a dominant function by definition but given that the margins can be so small in some people may appear to have 2 dominant functions and appear as a split personality, and hence why ENFJ and ENFP can be very very very similiar!

I think MBTI works better at polar types, as with life there is a grey area! and i stick my original statement that I think you can have a case where 2 people of different MBTI types, who can appear so similiar that the difference in the 2 types becomes negilible, hence my original argument ENFP/ENFJ does it really matter? and who can tell the difference when P and J are very balanced, every situation may warrant a different P and J response due to personal experience,

I guarantee what Im trying to communicate is lost in the langauge but I have closure on whats in my mind

 

[VH]

ok do you believe in someone that could use their right and left side of the brain so close to 50:50 that to an observer, even well trained observers that the observers may disagree on which side of the brain they use the most?

Absolutely. I am one of them.

...both with respect to right and left brain dominance, and with respect to the analogy of cognitive function type.

 

[smiffy]

Absolutely. I am one of them.

...both with respect to right and left brain dominance, and with respect to the analogy of cognitive function type.

brillant! I love you! hence you could have a labelled ENFP /ENFJ by all purposes to most observers appear and act the same! but have only the smallest of differences that make their MBTI types different

 

[foureyes]

yeah I just came to that conclusion that even if you are very close to 50:50 you will always favour one slightly over the other hence the name and definition of dominant function, I also think do some people can be different personalitys at different times, hence when you are quite balanced between, does MBTI labelling really matter? if your ENFJ 51% of the time and ENFP 49% of the time?

but everyone does have a dominant function by definition but given that the margins can be so small in some people may appear to have 2 dominant functions and appear as a split personality, and hence why ENFJ and ENFP can be very very very similiar!

I think MBTI works better at polar types, as with life there is a grey area! and i stick my original statement that I think you can have a case where 2 people of different MBTI types, who can appear so similiar that the difference in the 2 types becomes negilible, hence my original argument ENFP/ENFJ does it really matter? and who can tell the difference when P and J are very balanced, every situation may warrant a different P and J response due to personal experience,

I guarantee what Im trying to communicate is lost in the langauge but I have closure on whats in my mind

well . . . In my thinking there are 16 different types, and what distinguishes them is the order and type of their functions, which, for our purposed can not be changed. You can develope your other fuctions extremely well, so much as for your lesser functions to appear as you your dominant functions and to when tested appear as your dominant functions, but your actual order of functions is different.
But yeah I don't know you at all so I don't know where I come off typing you so certainly like this. I'm sorry. I feel kind of disgusted with myself to be honest.
So yeah, you're right. I ultimately don't know what your type is and it's probably wrong for me to be repeating my guess to this extent. Ultimately I don't know you at all. Have never even met you. My ideas are just saturated with hubris. I'm certain they are right but really? I'm full of crap. I have no proof and very little to go off of even with my suspicions so . . . I'm sorry.

However my other thoughts just about MBTI in general are my own, and I believe them quite adamently so if anyone wants to debate me my theories I'd be happy to grapple over it with them for ages upon ages to inconlusive finish. (Fun! )

 

[slant]

do you feel an insanely strong pull towards me?

 

[smiffy]

well . . . In my thinking there are 16 different types, and what distinguishes them is the order and type of their functions, which, for our purposed can not be changed. You can develope your other fuctions extremely well, so much as for your lesser functions to appear as you your dominant functions and to when tested appear as your dominant functions, but your actual order of functions is different.
But yeah I don't know you at all so I don't know where I come off typing you so certainly like this. I'm sorry. I feel kind of disgusted with myself to be honest.
So yeah, you're right. I ultimately don't know what your type is and it's probably wrong for me to be repeating my guess to this extent. Ultimately I don't know you at all. Have never even met you. My ideas are just saturated with hubris. I'm certain they are right but really? I'm full of crap. I have no proof and very little to go off of even with my suspicions so . . . I'm sorry.

However my other thoughts just about MBTI in general are my own, and I believe them quite adamently so if anyone wants to debate me my theories I'd be happy to grapple over them for ages upon ages to inconlusive finish. (Fun! )

hey its ok! the result of the debate was good and I hold no grudges or think anything bad of you! we may disagree but on the grand scheme of things nothing was harmed and everything is cool! I also agree with the part about the dominant functions, anyhows I'm off to bed night!

 

[smiffy]

do you feel an insanely strong pull towards me?

ok WTF?

 

[smiffy]

no one is going to fit any one type perfectly. The human mind is too dynamic and adaptive. Everyone will have elements of other types available to them.

Cognitive function preference indicates how we reflexively think, not how well we can think, nor what we think about.



I like this statement! nice and open ended!

 

[slant]

ENFJ

 

[VH]

brillant! I love you! hence you could have a labelled ENFP /ENFJ by all purposes to most observers appear and act the same! but have only the smallest of differences that make their MBTI types different

Somewhat. The difference between ENFP and ENFJ are quite drastic, as they are comprised of entirely different functions. I'm having trouble figuring out if I'm more of an INFJ or an ENFJ, who share the same functions, just in a different order. Just as I'm slightly more right brained than left, I'm pretty sure I'm slightly more INFJ than ENFJ. Anyone who knows me personally has mentioned that I don't have a whole lot in common with our mutual ENFP friends, or even our INFP friend. We think very 'backward' to one another.

Even with people who are both right and left brained, some start left and go right. Others start right and go left. Still others just go around in circles.

I think once you meet some real ENFJs, you'll understand just how different from yourself that they actually are. Here are a few motivational posters to exxagerate the differences, hehe.

View attachment 1478

View attachment 1479

 

[smiffy]

ENFJ

ST gives me the shivers!!

why does ENFJ matter?

I am envious of the stay in the moment S and the logical T, but I still think your a N in disguise! nothing to back that up, just a hunch! and I'm probably wrong