Enigma: the most confusing types...

[Quinlan]

What I find so hard to understand is how ISFPs don't understand that logical thinking is a consequence of goal-oriented thinking. Logic is a critical tool to finding the most efficient, complete, and correct way to achieve a goal. That is its function. You could say that that logic is a natural result of organisms developing intelligence.

This is very interesting, I personally value logic and logical thinking in others because it so often bears tangible fruit (the best kind for a Sensor! ). I can definitely see how some ISFPs disappear into complete subjectivity though, thinking logically in anything other than the immediate context does not come naturally.

 

[slant]

Most F types confuse and frustrate me, but
INFP is the worst one.

 

[acd]

Exactly, it's the whole freedom thing.


Would pegging them down as hating to be pegged down turn them off too?

Yes.
"You don't know me!"

Most F types confuse and frustrate me, but
INFP is the worst one.

Blah blah blah.

 

[Quinlan]

ISFP Idealism:

(Alt Ctrl Del ask for insight into this)

The way I see it Fi is probably the most idealistic of all the functions and Se is probably the most realistic function, so there is this (often huge) conflict for ISFPs between how they feel they or the world should be and what they actually see in reality.

ISFP idealism probably has a tendency towards naive pipe-dreams for themselves and the world (can't we all just get along? can't you see past the way I dress?) and is probably not as developed or expressed as much as an INFPs. Like Duty has pointed out, freedom is the most likely focus, freedom from all restraint on ourselves, Fi tells us how we should be and we wish for the world to allow us the freedom to be that ideal person.

INFPs are the true idealists, Fi shows them how they and the world should be, Ne shows them how it could be and Si can give them (romanticised) examples from the past. So they will have more faith in their ideals and are probably less likely to say "that's just the way things are...".

That's a start, I can try and answer any questions, although stuff relating to Fi is hard to put into words.

 

[acd]

Thanks!

 

[ec3khrl]

ISFP Idealism maybe? consider a world where everyone was judged as an ISFP judges others, that's their ideal perhaps. We are much more adept at evaluating virtue in others and ourselves than we are at evaluating by standards we see as arbitrary. Maybe the ISFP lives in a fantasy where social context is minimal. Just some random thoughts.

My very best friend is ISFP, sometimes I have a hard time to even comprehend the concepts he was talking about.

Would you deliberate a bit more about "a fantasy where social context is minimal" ? He once mentioned that maybe he is just not interested in people at all.

And one thing, he said most of the time he doesn't know what is he thinking, if thats the case wht's going on in his brain 99% of the time then ????

I asked him about it but he wasn't able to explain more as he is always not good with words. Sometimes he just drew me seemingly unrelated pictures that didn't help me to understand any better.

 

[Quinlan]

My very best friend is ISFP, sometimes I have a hard time to even comprehend the concepts he was talking about.

Would you deliberate a bit more about "a fantasy where social context is minimal" ? He once mentioned that maybe he is just not interested in people at all.

Hmm, I once had a discussion with my mother (ISFJ) asking why it matters what someone wears or how they wear their hair or whether they shave their beard or not? I said, if someone is good at their job, appearance should mean nothing, results are what matters to me, if someone gets results while looking scruffy it shouldn't be a problem. So she said to me that if we did that then we would lose all social context. Which I took to mean, we would no longer be able to prejudge people and would have to take a long time to assess the worth of each new person rather than using mental shortcuts and it would be chaos. I think some ISFPs might wish to live in a world where judgements of people are made very slowly and carefully and people are accepted based on their merit and character alone rather than how well they can sell themselves. I'm not sure how relevant that was...

And one thing, he said most of the time he doesn't know what is he thinking, if thats the case wht's going on in his brain 99% of the time then ????

I asked him about it but he wasn't able to explain more as he is always not good with words. Sometimes he just drew me seemingly unrelated pictures that didn't help me to understand any better.

For ISFPs our inner world is made up of Fi and Ni, neither of which are very easily put into concepts let alone words. Describing what is going on with Fi and Ni is not an easy task. Also often we won't be thinking anything, we will be observing and listening, we do this most of the time, it is pretty much raw perceiving. With no judgements being made untill something sticks out to us. The more you think the less alert and aware you will be of the external world, but we want to always be aware of that.

 

[Thursday]

i thought INxPs were considered the enigma types
for a classic INTP, Luna Lovegood of Harry Potter

 

[gloomy-optimist]

Is Luna INTP? I've always thought her as INFP

 

[Thursday]

Is Luna INTP? I've always thought her as INFP

Ya know, so did I. I was using someone's enthusiasm. Righty o.

For the record - i have never seen an ENFP as an enigma. I can see an IxTP from observations. INFJs are just crazy people in normal people's skin.

 

[ec3khrl]

Hmm, I once had a discussion with my mother (ISFJ) asking why it matters what someone wears or how they wear their hair or whether they shave their beard or not? I said, if someone is good at their job, appearance should mean nothing, results are what matters to me, if someone gets results while looking scruffy it shouldn't be a problem. So she said to me that if we did that then we would lose all social context. Which I took to mean, we would no longer be able to prejudge people and would have to take a long time to assess the worth of each new person rather than using mental shortcuts and it would be chaos. I think some ISFPs might wish to live in a world where judgements of people are made very slowly and carefully and people are accepted based on their merit and character alone rather than how well they can sell themselves. I'm not sure how relevant that was...



For ISFPs our inner world is made up of Fi and Ni, neither of which are very easily put into concepts let alone words. Describing what is going on with Fi and Ni is not an easy task. Also often we won't be thinking anything, we will be observing and listening, we do this most of the time, it is pretty much raw perceiving. With no judgements being made untill something sticks out to us. The more you think the less alert and aware you will be of the external world, but we want to always be aware of that.

OH ! Cool
I have a clearer picture now that sure is very helpful thanks !

And yeah I agree with you, when someone is good why bother the way they look.

 

[slant]

Blah blah blah.

Stop taunting me.

 

[midnightmelody]

I don't find them confusing per-say. I just find ESTJ and ISTJ extordaniatly irrating and mean... and as such avoid them quite a bit.

I have an istj mother and yes, we but heads quite often. She has a do it now mantality, whereas I prefer to let things just get done (which they always do). She has very little patience, and it makes me very frazzled in her presence. Then when I get with ultra patience people they always tell me to "slooow down!". And then I'm like ohh...wait...you aren't going to hit me over the head if it isn't finished right away. How nice....

 

[Duty]

i thought INxPs were considered the enigma types
for a classic INTP, Luna Lovegood of Harry Potter

Luna is not an INTP. She is very obviously Ni primary and not Te at all (admittedly not very Fe either, but less Te for sure), making her most likely INFJ. She is a shining example of what Ni is when it stands mostly alone (trust me, I know someone in real life who is awfully like her, just leans more toward the T side).

Her defining characteristic is a mystic spaciness. INTPs are "lost in their minds," but not typically spacey (and there is a huge difference). Ni untamed by Fe in an INFJ takes on one or both of spaciness or paranoia.

 

[Vegscara]

Personally, I'm an INFJ, but this applies to anyone. What is the most confusing type you've encountered, one on one? What puzzled you? I'll go first.
There is this guy that I work with. He is an absolute puzzle, yet I'm attracted to him. He's shy, but I'm sure it's only when I'm around, and when I ask a specific question, if it's the slightest bit controversial, he reply with an, "I don't know" or some qualifying answer. At times, he'll be more open, and then suddenly he'll snap shut. Can anyone decode his type? That would make my job a lot easier. Also, would a relationship of any kind be beneficial? Or are our types too different?

Its possible he could be an infj. I hear we're pretty dificult to type so this could be the case and he seems introverted enough. I could be completely wrong but its possible.