enneagram type 4

DefectiveCreative said:
I try to have patience. A big part of that jealousy comes from this fear we have that we're unlovable, that we're just not good enough, etc. I find that if I trust in myself that as long, as long I continue to be the best me I can be, then I have more faith that those things will come to me when I'm truly ready for them, as indeed they often do. :D (Or so I like to think. :wink: ). And that helps free me to be more genuinely happy for other people when they get what I want. :lol:
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+1

The difficulty is in direct proportion to how much something someone else has is like what what I want. For example, my whole life I've wanted a soul mate. When other people find a soul mate, I'm usually happy for them and not reminded of what I don't have very much. The painful jolt is slight. However, when someone finds a soul mate who is very much like the kind of person I want, that painful jolt can be like lightning. It's a terrible reminder of what I don't have and may never have... as mentioned because there is something wrong with me.
 
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lol! yes, keeping in mind that when I alone I'm able to love myself and that helps to believe that I really am lovable

I'm so relieved that I'm not the only jealous one on this forum, lol, I thought you guys where perfect. It is even that bad with me when my best only single friends tell me "ow my god M I have something major to tell you" that I think "ow my god don't say you have found a boyfriend, please don't leave me alone in this". How horrible!

do you have to watch out every day, keeping in mind that you are lovable to prevent that you are always jealous when someone seem to have what you desire, or does it get easier with practice?
 
Morgain said:
lol, I thought you guys where perfect.
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Not even slightly! :lol:

do you have to watch out every day, keeping in mind that you are lovable to prevent that you are always jealous when someone seem to have what you desire, or does it get easier with practice?
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In my experience it gets easier, but like all the darker aspects of ourselves it's always something you have to keep an eye out for.
 
DefectiveCreative said:
EDIT: It's also important to remember that there's a difference between "need" and "want", and we can often think that what we want is what we need to fill that non-existent hole.
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This^^^ is one of the most important things to understand (i think). And it's sooooooo easy to fall into this trap of believing that what you want is what you need or is that thing you've been looking for.
 
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DefectiveCreative said:
EDIT: It's also important to remember that there's a difference between "need" and "want", and we can often think that what we want is what we need to fill that non-existent hole.
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my god I have missed the edit!

That is such a wisdom, it is behound words

what we want is not what we need to fill the non-existent hole!


I have to be on watch every minute of every single day to not fall into the trap of wanting. I know there is no hole and if there was one, I know I couldn't fill it with something that comes from outside, but one day or the other I fall into the trap again of wanting something to fill it up! I have to convince myself over and over again: there is no hole, there is no hole, there is no...
 
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i thought i was an enneagram four but i don't really relate to feeling like i'm unloved or missing something, i know i'm loved and my life isn't perfect but it's good enough. my biggest problem is fear... which means i'm probably closer to a five or six than a four.
 
Enneagram 4 seems to fit well, and the Blogthings Enneagram quiz seems to confirm it (although i wasn't sure about some of my responses to the questions in the quiz).
 
- feeling that you are different than the rest. Check.
- the lost of the contact with its essence during childhood causes a deep longing for something more, connection and belonging and the feeling of being uncomplete. Check
- romantic and creating a fantasy world, searching for an idealistic world, something to make you complete again. Check.
- jalous because other people seem to be happy and content : Nope.
Not so much, no. For some reason, I have trouble getting jealous, and when I do, I can usually work past it pretty easily. I'm somewhat advanced this way. Its one of the few things where I seem to be ahead of the curve.
- don't see the good things in your life, only the things you are missing (and would give you the feeling of being complete at last), you always want what you don't have: Check.
- your strenght is your creativity, passion, sensitivity to the feelings of others, emotional depth: Check
- becomes a 2 when unders tress: a forced friendlyness and impose themselves on others: Nope
No, I don't do this when stressed. When stressed, I withdraw completely from the world.

-Inside the dramatic emotional facade of the 4 there is a bossy, judgemental 1-child. One that aims for justice and honesty and make sure that everyone does what they have been told to do. It wants to be perfect and gets defensive when someone points out something imperfect. Check

It is difficult for the 4 to acknowledge this child inside of him, even hating himself for it but accepting it is the key to healing, to see that everything around us is already perfect, even the 4 himself. Check. Makes we wanna cry.

When he incorporate this child within, he will see that he is pure and briljant and beautiful and whole and connected already and he can stop searching for connection outside of him. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
No, I don't buy this. It is our lack of connectedness and wholeness that plagues our world. If we were so perfect and connected, the world would not be so ugly. We delude ourselves and make ourselves feel better if we fall for that prattle. We must learn to connect with the other. Our world does not need any more isolated saints.

Overall, I'd say its a great description of my type, but its "solution" is self-deluded and designed to pacify what must be rectified, and therefore is a drug to mask the problem.

Morgain, I don't think it is so bad if you feel jealous from time to time. Just know that you have a lot of gifts that many of us would love to have, and that you share them with others so freely that it blesses us with them. Just continue to be who you are. We approve. as for finding the connection that you are missing, I think the secret is that we must find this as a whole, no one person can find it alone. But there has not been a spiritual teacher yet who has taught this secret. Maybe someday there will be one. I finally found my worth in my children. I never found it in myself. They taught me my worth. The answer does lie in others. Self-help is overrated.
 
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Whenever I test, I end up with pretty balanced results. I'll score evenly in about three or even four different types. However, I personally feel that I best identify with type 4.
 
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Nobleheart said:
Is this typical type 4?

Someone I'm not especially interested in asks me out on a date. I say ok because I don't have anything better to do. She calls and cancels, and all of a sudden I feel completely shipwrecked and alone, and am freaking out because I will never again find love.
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completely me :D

Is it a feeling of rejection. She doesn't seem to find you worthy enough to meet you or to be respectful since she kind of like broke a promise?
Did she say why she canceled? If she said something changed in her planning and she couldn't do it anymore because of that, it would change a lot because the cause of the cancelation wouldn't be you :D

In my head it would sound like this. If even a boy I'm not extremely interested in cancel on me (=doesn't want me) why would a boy I am interested in want me?
 
Ecton said:
It is our lack of connectedness and wholeness that plagues our world. If we were so perfect and connected, the world would not be so ugly. We delude ourselves and make ourselves feel better if we fall for that prattle. We must learn to connect with the other. Our world does not need any more isolated saints.
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no the problem is that we are connected and whole at this very moment. We only can't see it. How could we not be connected since we are all part of life/tao? We are just forgotten this and the search for connectedness is what makes us misserable because the search leeds us farther away from feeling the connectedness.

I tried this out and it works. I have always been searching for love, wholeness outside of me and believed that something is wrong with me. It has never helped me to be more connected and it made me more isolated. But the more I realise I'm already connected within, the more I feel connected to others, the more I believe I'm perfect the why i am, the more I have to give to people, the more harmonious my relationships are, the more I love people.
Last week I met a lady that had written a book about this (she had the exact same view on it as me). Her charisma was overwelming. She was very much centered and focussed on herself. She didn't say much or do much to help people but at the same time she gave so much love to the people in the room and being in her presence made me feel more connected myself, more at peace, more able to love.

believing that you are connected, makes you more connected with other people

you say this is selfdeluded but I think it is a paradox. It seems not to be the right answer when you think about it, therefore we are afraid of it, but I feel it in every cell of my body that it is the way.

Ecton said:
Morgain, I don't think it is so bad if you feel jealous from time to time. Just know that you have a lot of gifts that many of us would love to have, and that you share them with others so freely that it blesses us with them. Just continue to be who you are. We approve.
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thanks!

Ecton said:
as for finding the connection that you are missing, I think the secret is that we must find this as a whole, no one person can find it alone. But there has not been a spiritual teacher yet who has taught this secret. Maybe someday there will be one.
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no there have been so many spiritual leaders that have found it: Jesus, Boedha, the writers of the tao te tjing, the mystici and desert fathers. This secret is written in every ancient book of wisdom. We only don't see the secret because we are searching in the wrong place

Ecton said:
I finally found my worth in my children. I never found it in myself. They taught me my worth. The answer does lie in others. Self-help is overrated.
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I can't rely on others to make me feel worthful. In fact if someone would say me that I am, I wouldn't believe. I can only believe it when I realise it myself and allow myself to believe it. The answer lies within. :D
 
Nobleheart said:
Hey DC, what do you make of these results?
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All I can really add to what the test itself said is that it implies you might be a social or sexual variant, because of the high results for 2, 6 and 7, all of which are very focussed outward, towards others (especially 2 and 6).

Really though, like with the MBTI my standard advice remains "Use the descriptions, not the tests". Tests, bah! >=P
 
I'm pretty sure I'm a type 4. One of those rare type 4 NT's. 4w3 to be exact, at least that's it for now. I was blown away by the accuracy. Constantly searching for my identity, basing that identity on how I feel, unstable self-image, artistic-creative bent, pitying people (I stopped this a while ago at my wife's insistence), the self-absorption, need to deal with feelings before getting on in work, complaining about the little things (stopped that too, same reason).

In general, I make decisions logically and logical explanations for things is my area of expertise, but, when it comes to my identity or unique self, logic fails. I'm starting to realize that I just have to quit trying so hard to define myself because I'm not going to feel the same way all the time.

An unhealthy 4 sounds a lot like BPD.
 
Well to each their own (ironically) ;)

Something tells me that which ever way you go, you end up at the self.other wholeness. Just different paths around the circle.

In any case, you might be right, but I'm just not feeling it for some reason.
 
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